32 Gig P2 Cards Price

[Jason Ramsey]

Why wouldn't you want an offloading device, first of all? A cheap laptop, and/or a couple of cheap hdd's will do the trick.

You still need hdd storage space when you go to capture your 15 hours worth of tape. By the time you are done capturing your 15 hours of tape, I will be done with my project and delivering it to my client, and picking up my paycheck.

Not, to mention the fact that I can delete any clip that isn't good on the spot. So that 15 hours of footage might only end up being 5 by the time I get to the editing process. Can you do that wiht tape?

It's just kind of pointless explaining the workflow. If it doesn't work for you. FINE. Geez. it's just so tired listening to you, and others complain about it, and complain about it. You are giving the same tired arguments. Not only that, but the arguments aren't even very accurate, often times, and not based on any actual experience using the workflow.

I walked around for 4 hours in Tornado destruction on Saturday. I had my HVX and 2 8 gig cards. When the sun went down, my cards were full, and I was done for the day. I didn't have the first problem using the HVX and p2 in this situation. 4 hours of walking and shooting.

If you need five hours of footage per day, and can't offload footage, then get the firestore. Oh, wait you already have that. Can you shoot for 5 hours and not offload the firestore, in 1080? Nope. Can you shoot for five hours to 5 tapes. Sure. Then you can go home and spend 6 hours capturing all of that to your HDD's.

I can stick an 8 gig card into a laptop anytime I want, and offload the footage in 4 minutes. Then I am back shooting. Again, why wouldn't you want to have an offload device with you if you were trying to shoot that much footage in a single day?

Give me two 8 gig cards even, and an offload device, and I guarantee you that I could shoot the same thing you would with your tape, have more useable footage and be done and onto the next project long before you. What little time I might spend offloading cards in the field, you will spend 10 times that capturing your footage before you can even look at it, or see if the footage was free from error, etc.

This is tired.

 

[Barry_Green]

And please don't insult me. I know you're the #1 supporter of Panasonic and P2 workflow, but I'm talking about the practicality here.

Nobody's trying to insult you. We're just so unbelievably tired of you trotting out this same refrain. That horse is dead, Abaddon. P2 works. I'm up here at the Iditarod where 15 camera teams are documenting an 1100-mile dog race, using P2. Australian Broadcasting bought it. NDTV in New Delhi bought it. Hundreds of stations in America bought it. Fox is using only P2 at all their owned & operated stations now. Look at the "Who's Using The HVX" thread. For you to fly in the face of all the evidence and trot out that same, tired, tired, tired, tired line is... well, it's tired.

So forgive me if I was a bit flippant, but there are thousands of HVX users happily making a living using their P2 cards today. If it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work for YOU. But that doesn't mean that it won't work for tens of thousands of others who are using it RIGHT NOW. With the tiny cards. So when you dismiss the 128GB card, that's just... well, it's preposterous.

If it wasn't for your posting history, which consists of something like 80% of all your posts saying "P2 is too small", we'd probably not be quite so fed up with it when you trot out that same line again and again and again. We've heard you. But you know what? It's not affecting us. So if you try to beat the dead horse again, forgive us if we don't listen the next time.

When using tape, you can shoot as many hours as you want as long as you have enough tapes. You can go on a travel shoot, bring a stack of tapes and shoot like crazy.

If it's that much of a big deal to you, why don't you shoot tape? Get the XHA1 or XHG1, get the Sony V1U. There are lots of tape cameras available. Nobody's stopping you.

In order to make shooting as easy with P2, you would need the GB equivalent of what all those tapes can hold.

If you keep your mindset stuck in the tape methodology, you'll never be able to see what you're missing out on. I suggest you also look at XDCAM, perhaps it'd be more suitable to your desired style of shooting.

So let me ask you. If I want to shoot 1080i footage, 5 hours of footage per day over 3 days (or more), no offloading device, how can I get all this footage without a stack of high capacity cards?

First, who would do that? Second, if that's what you want, perhaps you should be looking at XDCAM. P2 is for people who want to work with the footage they've shot. And three 128GB cards (the ones you pooh-pooh'd as being still too small) would get you six hours.

Look, there's no magic bullet, there's no one holy grail. Different technologies work for different purposes. If it doesn't work for you, sell it and move on. Go to HDV or XDCAM. But please quit beating the dead horse, okay? Sheesh.

 

[Barry_Green]

Fascinating -- Jason posted his while I was still typing mine, and we both show the same frustration and the same points.

 

[Richard Sutcliffe]

If that was the scenario, you use tape. But on the other hand, I ask you, if, on this hypothetical shoot, you need hi-def, small-ish form factor, variable frame rates and interval recording what are you going to do?

By my reckoning you would be taking a vari-cam, an HPX, a small form factor HDV cam and a 35mm stills cam with laptop combo.

Or you could take an offload device.

 

[mjjason]

When I first read the post complaining about the 128G card size I instantly knew who it was without even looking at the name.

Abaddon, you have got to change your tune or simply go for another technology.

 

[Abaddon]

Why wouldn't you want an offloading device, first of all? A cheap laptop, and/or a couple of cheap hdd's will do the trick.

You still need hdd storage space when you go to capture your 15 hours worth of tape. By the time you are done capturing your 15 hours of tape, I will be done with my project and delivering it to my client, and picking up my paycheck.

Not, to mention the fact that I can delete any clip that isn't good on the spot. So that 15 hours of footage might only end up being 5 by the time I get to the editing process. Can you do that wiht tape?

It's just kind of pointless explaining the workflow. If it doesn't work for you. FINE. Geez. it's just so tired listening to you, and others complain about it, and complain about it. You are giving the same tired arguments. Not only that, but the arguments aren't even very accurate, often times, and not based on any actual experience using the workflow.

I walked around for 4 hours in Tornado destruction on Saturday. I had my HVX and 2 8 gig cards. When the sun went down, my cards were full, and I was done for the day. I didn't have the first problem using the HVX and p2 in this situation. 4 hours of walking and shooting.

If you need five hours of footage per day, and can't offload footage, then get the firestore. Oh, wait you already have that. Can you shoot for 5 hours and not offload the firestore, in 1080? Nope. Can you shoot for five hours to 5 tapes. Sure. Then you can go home and spend 6 hours capturing all of that to your HDD's.

I can stick an 8 gig card into a laptop anytime I want, and offload the footage in 4 minutes. Then I am back shooting. Again, why wouldn't you want to have an offload device with you if you were trying to shoot that much footage in a single day?

Give me two 8 gig cards even, and an offload device, and I guarantee you that I could shoot the same thing you would with your tape, have more useable footage and be done and onto the next project long before you. What little time I might spend offloading cards in the field, you will spend 10 times that capturing your footage before you can even look at it, or see if the footage was free from error, etc.

This is tired.

If it's so tired, why respond to such lenth?

Listen, I have my HVX, one 8GB card, and a Firestore. I'll use what I have and work within my means. I'm sure I'll be just fine.

But you guys are missing my point. I'm discussing the practicality of P2 compared to tape. Obviously P2 is superior in so many ways, but it's not as easy to use as tape, in certain respects. With tape, you can shoot 60-90 minutes, switch tape, and repeat over and over again. With P2, you have a more limited amount of space, so in order to get all the footage shot, offloading in necessary. This means carying extra equipment and taking the time to offload. Some of us don't feel like doing that. We want the great quality from the HVX with the workflow ease of tape (during production).

And yes, it would be nice to have a laptop with me, but that's extra equipment to bring on a plane and carry around. Not fun.

 

[Abaddon]

Nobody's trying to insult you. We're just so unbelievably tired of you trotting out this same refrain. That horse is dead, Abaddon. P2 works. I'm up here at the Iditarod where 15 camera teams are documenting an 1100-mile dog race, using P2. Australian Broadcasting bought it. NDTV in New Delhi bought it. Hundreds of stations in America bought it. Fox is using only P2 at all their owned & operated stations now. Look at the "Who's Using The HVX" thread. For you to fly in the face of all the evidence and trot out that same, tired, tired, tired, tired line is... well, it's tired.

So forgive me if I was a bit flippant, but there are thousands of HVX users happily making a living using their P2 cards today. If it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work for YOU. But that doesn't mean that it won't work for tens of thousands of others who are using it RIGHT NOW. With the tiny cards. So when you dismiss the 128GB card, that's just... well, it's preposterous.

If it wasn't for your posting history, which consists of something like 80% of all your posts saying "P2 is too small", we'd probably not be quite so fed up with it when you trot out that same line again and again and again. We've heard you. But you know what? It's not affecting us. So if you try to beat the dead horse again, forgive us if we don't listen the next time.


If it's that much of a big deal to you, why don't you shoot tape? Get the XHA1 or XHG1, get the Sony V1U. There are lots of tape cameras available. Nobody's stopping you.



If you keep your mindset stuck in the tape methodology, you'll never be able to see what you're missing out on. I suggest you also look at XDCAM, perhaps it'd be more suitable to your desired style of shooting.


First, who would do that? Second, if that's what you want, perhaps you should be looking at XDCAM. P2 is for people who want to work with the footage they've shot. And three 128GB cards (the ones you pooh-pooh'd as being still too small) would get you six hours.

Look, there's no magic bullet, there's no one holy grail. Different technologies work for different purposes. If it doesn't work for you, sell it and move on. Go to HDV or XDCAM. But please quit beating the dead horse, okay? Sheesh.

I don't know why you think I'm crapping on P2. I'm not. I think it's great.

Why is it so tough to understand my point? It's about practicality. I want to be able to go out and shoot all day if I have to without worrying about lack of space or offloading on location. That's it! I want to be able to shoot as if I'm using tape. And I believe that can be achieved with enough P2 cards. So give me four 128GB cards and I'll be perfectly happy because I'm sure that'll make things much easier.

I'm not saying I'll need four cards to get through the typical day. But I am saying that should a project come around where I'll have to travel and/or shoot for many hours, I'd like to know that I'll be covered.

So again, I love P2 but I don't feel it's as practical as tape just yet. I do believe it will be someday.

 

[Abaddon]

When I first read the post complaining about the 128G card size I instantly knew who it was without even looking at the name.

Abaddon, you have got to change your tune or simply go for another technology.

Or you could just try to understand my point better.

I never complained about 128GB card size. I just said it would take a few of them to make long shoots easy to produce. Complaining about the size of a card is like complaining about the length of a tape. A tape only holds 60 minutes of footage. Shoot that, pop in another tape, and repeat. I want that sort of ease with P2, and again, someday I'll have it. In the meantime I'm sure I'll make due with my Firestore and 8GB card.

 

[TedRR]

But you guys are missing my point. I'm discussing the practicality of P2 compared to tape. Obviously P2 is superior in so many ways, but it's not as easy to use as tape, in certain respects.

Abaddon, there are tradeoffs with any technology. As much as I "silently" mocked the P2 workflow when I saw it at NAB a couple years back, I have now accepted the benifits and the few drawbacks. Mostly differences rather then drawbacks.
Being 48 years old and over 30 years dealing with Tape, it took me a while too. But every time I use the P2 workflow, I like it better and better.

Kinda like the old folks that have resisted using computers for thier multitude of reasons. But the sad thing is, they are not getting the benefits of the newer technology.

It's different. If you enjoy the benefits, use it. If it doesn't work for you feel free to stay with tape.
I'm certainly not one to tell another they are wrong. You have your reasons I'm sure. It's just that many of us have enjoyed the benefits and are moving deeper into the technology of the tapeless workflow. No doubt, it's the way of the future.

Don't know if you've heard, but Quantegy stops it's tape manufacturing in April.

 

[Nik Manning]

You should have bought a hdv camera dude. P2 wasn't meant for you. Wedding videos nope. Music Concerts nope. Any long takes over 30 minutes without an assistant not gonna happen.
If you are doing ENG work/music videos/film work and you just need to capture 10 minutes here 5 minutes there then P2 workflow will probably work for you. Remember DVCPROHD is a Professional HD format that was made affordable by P2 and HDV is a prosumer format that was made possible by mini-dv.

What you need Abaddon my friend is a Canon A1 with a firestore. Real simple.
P2 is small but it is not the size that matters it is what you do with it.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

Anyways...

This thread was originally about the rumor that we would have 32 gig p2 cards by the end of the year @ 1k a piece.

Anyone wanna say anything else about that? We have drifted here, and the conversation is...

Later,
Jason

 

[cbdv]

In less than 6 months the cineporter will offer hours of shooting (P2 workflow with no tasks), that for me is going to be the best of all worlds.

 

[Abaddon]

Abaddon, there are tradeoffs with any technology. As much as I "silently" mocked the P2 workflow when I saw it at NAB a couple years back, I have now accepted the benifits and the few drawbacks. Mostly differences rather then drawbacks.
Being 48 years old and over 30 years dealing with Tape, it took me a while too. But every time I use the P2 workflow, I like it better and better.

Kinda like the old folks that have resisted using computers for thier multitude of reasons. But the sad thing is, they are not getting the benefits of the newer technology.

It's different. If you enjoy the benefits, use it. If it doesn't work for you feel free to stay with tape.
I'm certainly not one to tell another they are wrong. You have your reasons I'm sure. It's just that many of us have enjoyed the benefits and are moving deeper into the technology of the tapeless workflow. No doubt, it's the way of the future.

Don't know if you've heard, but Quantegy stops it's tape manufacturing in April.

I'll be using my Firestore until P2 cards become larger and cheaper.

 

[Abaddon]

You should have bought a hdv camera dude. P2 wasn't meant for you. Wedding videos nope. Music Concerts nope. Any long takes over 30 minutes without an assistant not gonna happen.
If you are doing ENG work/music videos/film work and you just need to capture 10 minutes here 5 minutes there then P2 workflow will probably work for you. Remember DVCPROHD is a Professional HD format that was made affordable by P2 and HDV is a prosumer format that was made possible by mini-dv.

What you need Abaddon my friend is a Canon A1 with a firestore. Real simple.
P2 is small but it is not the size that matters it is what you do with it.

I don't need a Canon A1 and I don't want a Canon A1. I'm happy with my HVX.

I'll be using my Firestore until P2 cards become larger and cheaper.

 

[Abaddon]

Anyways...

This thread was originally about the rumor that we would have 32 gig p2 cards by the end of the year @ 1k a piece.

Anyone wanna say anything else about that? We have drifted here, and the conversation is...

Later,
Jason

32GB cards will be nicer than 8GB, but 1k is still a bit high since for less then 2k we can get a 100GB Firestore.

 

[Richard Sutcliffe]

If 32gb cards for $1000 means 8gb cards for $250 I'll be happy. More and smaller cards are the way forward for me, I'd sooner have a problem with one 8gb card out of 4 than with my only 32gb card.

I can see huge pitfalls in the drive to get more footage onto a single card. Personally I would be very happy with a dozen 8gb cards at my disposal. I'll just make do with three till they drop substantially in price.

 

[Abaddon]

If 32gb cards for $1000 means 8gb cards for $250 I'll be happy. More and smaller cards are the way forward for me, I'd sooner have a problem with one 8gb card out of 4 than with my only 32gb card.

I can see huge pitfalls in the drive to get more footage onto a single card. Personally I would be very happy with a dozen 8gb cards at my disposal. I'll just make do with three till they drop substantially in price.

I guess we'll see how secure the larger cards are. I would have no problem using several smaller, more reliable cards than one big unreliable one.

 

[John Godden]

Anyways...

This thread was originally about the rumor that we would have 32 gig p2 cards by the end of the year @ 1k a piece.

Anyone wanna say anything else about that? We have drifted here, and the conversation is...

Later,
Jason

Hi Jason

My expectation is that there won't be a $1K 32 GB card in 07.

JohnG

 

[Richard Sutcliffe]

I would be surprised if they don't deliver, whatever the hurdles they had to overcome with the larger cards they seem to have overcome them. Of course whether that can be applied to 32gb remains to be seen but the word fromk the horses mouth is that they will come.

The development and uptake of P2 is of fundamental importance to Panasonic, personally I think they have dragged their feet so far. here's hoping the pace of things improve from here.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

You could be right, John. And, a few months ago I would have probably agreed with you. But, with all the recent developments, it wouldn't surprise me if we do see 32 gig cards by the end of the year, or close to it. Although, maybe not at the 1k price point.

If I remember correctly the change in sd card architecture is part of what caused the initial slow down in p2 card size increases/price decreases. Maybe someone more in the know on that one can clue me in on that one.

Anyways, that coupled with all these new deals that have been signed recently would indicate to me, that a technical "obstacle" has been overcome concerning the speed at which card sizes are increasing. And, there is now going to be a much greater demand in terms of quantity of p2 cards in the market, which would put a lot of downward pressure on prices.

We shall see though. It's all just speculation at this point anyways.