Opinions of shooting 24pa VS 30p

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filmguy123

Veteran
I've been playing around with my HVX-200 (just got it) and had a question:


When I capture 24pa using the 24p ((for 24 progressive advanced footage) Premiere Pro 2.0 settings)), I notice the footage when played back looks slightly choppy/unsmooth. Especially when I dynamically move the camera around.

Is this normal, and also, why is this?

30p gives a much nicer look I feel, and a far less video look than 60i.


So when would I want to use 24pa over 30p? If my projects are going to end up on DVD for playback on standard TVs & HD TVS, would I want to choose 30p over 24pa? Also, what about digital projects, projecting from a DVD drive? 24pa or 30p? (And, ultimately, what about projects that would be shown on both digital projectors and TVs?)


So... when I would I choose 24pa over 30p? Is that best suited in the event that I would want to do an actual transfer to film? Is that all 24pa is really for? Or do you guys shoot 24pa even when outputting to DVD or for digital projectors?

If so, why? What is with the slightly choppy playback?
 
If you are going for DVD playback - 24pa would be the best for a filmic look for all the devices you mentioned above. This will be forced back into 60i footage by your dvd player (if you don't have a progressive scan TV).

Yes 24pa would be film transfers...

What are your project settings in PP2.0?

Can you link to some footage?

Keep the camera iris as open as possible and keep the shutter speed down - that might add some smoothing to the motion.
 
no ithink hes talking about the 24p jutter. its part of 24p. move the camera slower.
 
TimurCivan said:
no ithink hes talking about the 24p jutter. its part of 24p. move the camera slower.
Click to expand...

Yeah its the jutter. I don't do slow cameras :) I'm always moving, etc. So I'm guessing unless I'm shooting scenery are something slow-paced, 30p will be a better choice for me.

Settings in PP2.0:

Panasonic 24p Widescreen setting
When I export, it exports using 23.97 progressive advanced
 
If you have any ambition to show your footage in PAL-land go 24p because with a snip of a finger you can make the necessary conversion to 25p
 
filmguy123 said:
I've been playing around with my HVX-200 (just got it) and had a question:


When I capture 24pa using the 24p ((for 24 progressive advanced footage) Premiere Pro 2.0 settings)), I notice the footage when played back looks slightly choppy/unsmooth. Especially when I dynamically move the camera around.

Is this normal, and also, why is this?

30p gives a much nicer look I feel, and a far less video look than 60i.


So when would I want to use 24pa over 30p? If my projects are going to end up on DVD for playback on standard TVs & HD TVS, would I want to choose 30p over 24pa? Also, what about digital projects, projecting from a DVD drive? 24pa or 30p? (And, ultimately, what about projects that would be shown on both digital projectors and TVs?)


So... when I would I choose 24pa over 30p? Is that best suited in the event that I would want to do an actual transfer to film? Is that all 24pa is really for? Or do you guys shoot 24pa even when outputting to DVD or for digital projectors?

If so, why? What is with the slightly choppy playback?
Click to expand...

24p is more "jittery" when doing fast camera moves, it's the nature of the beast. There's no way around that other than panning/ tilting more slowly. The genre of the project (among other considerations) determines frame rate for me.

Film/art projects- 24P

Commercial production- I try to shoot 24P if I can. Many times it's too different looking for some clients to get their heads around. 30P is a great compromise, and the frame rate that I shoot the majority of projects in. Most of the advantages of 24P but in a slightly smoother package. I don't shoot interlace anymore unless it's required by the client.

I had a shoot recently where my footage was being intercut with other interlace DVCPRO 50 footage, the client required me to shoot interlace. It's so hard to shoot it after shooting progressive- a painful waste of the HVX's capabilitites.

Man, I love this camera. No matter what format is being shot, the day rate is paying for the same camera.
 
Just remember, there' no such thing as a 30p DVD.

DVD only calls for 60i or 24p. that's it. So 30p footage will ALWAYS get transcoded as 60i during the MPEG2 process by field doubling. Progressive DVD players using component connections on a progressive monitor will play them correctly because they always output 60p.

So do as I and others have suggested in the past......shoot 24p footage, edit 24p timelines make 24p masters and burn yourslef a a 24p dvd. It may look jittery at some point but if you correctly followed all the rules, you're project will end up looking great in the end.
 
hotchkiss said:
Commercial production- I try to shoot 24P if I can. Many times it's too different looking for some clients to get their heads around.
Click to expand...

Why dont the clients want 24P everyone i've ever worked for has asked for it. That doesnt suggest that they know what it even means, but like "hd" they just want it.

Just dont tell them next time, just say, its the film like, high production value look.
 
Well for TV, 24p is not always desired, So I can see why they don't want 24p. My last two music videos I produced were shot in 30p because they would look better during broadcast on the BET cable network.

In general, I would use 24p for NARRATIVE work only. For TV commercials, music videos (some), PSAs, live broadcasts and infomercials I would recommend 30p.
 
So when would I ever want to shoot 60i (besides intermixing pre-existing 60i footage?) It seems 30p would be better even for fast action sports... or would the one reason to shoot 60i for fast action sports be faster auto-focus response? (if that is a reason, is there any other reason or?)
 
30p is not necessarrily bettery then 60i for fast action sports.

Remember, when shooting 60i the screen never goes black. In theory it is like 60p sliced in half and shifted and just like 60p, in 60i none of the fields are captured at the exact same time. It's just half of the end of 1 field is interlaced with half of the beginning of the next field to construct 1 frame. And that's why it gives you a "reality" feeling because it's continuous video being displayed. Whereas 30p is a complete picture (frame) taken, then the shutter closes and goes black and then another picture is taken and the shutter closes, so on and so forth 30 times per second.

That's why it's funny to see people regard one frame rate as "better" over another frame rate. 24p is not better then 30p is not better then 60i is not better then 24p. They are just 'different' and provides you with a 'different' video look. So now, pick your look.

For fast action video, 30p & 60i is more visually pleasing then 24p to the human eyes for what we expect to see when watching fast action video. Now between the two (30p & 60i) you need to choose which "look" is best for what yu're trying to accomplish. Which can include many factors.
is it for DVD?
is it for TV broadcast?
do you want freeze frames?
do you want people to feel like they are there?
are you on a tripod shooting fast action fly past you?
are you handheld (in the game) running with the action?

I can think of more. but this is where proper pre-production planning comes in. From there, you make your decision.
 
Thanks Shanon... sorry to have to ask, but I am wondering, based on those questions:

- It would be for DVD
- I would be handheld shooting fast action fly past and also running with action
- I want people to feel like they are there

Which frame-mode would be best for that, and why does or doesn't it assist each of those needs.

Thanks!
 
I'd shoot 60i over 30p for fast action or sports. But I'd shoot 60p over 60i. 24p for sports? Only if you're looking for the movie look; if you're trying to represent a live event, 60i or 60p is preferable.
 
Well, this is a bit of a stretch, but if anyone sees this: Are professional commercials for broadcast television normally shot in 30p? From what I can tell, and I'm no pro by any means, but from what I can tell they generally seem to be 30p. I'm about to shoot a spec for my reel and am thinking that 30p is the way to go.
 
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