PSC AlphaMix vs. SD 442 Opinions?

MattinSTL

MattinSTL

Sound Modulator
I've seen at least one forum member with an AlphaMix, but that is certainly the dark horse in this race.

This is probably a million to one odds... but has ANYBODY had some experience with both of these mixers? Naturally the reputation and industry favors SD over pretty much anything else... but with the higher-end PSC mixers I've still seen excellent resale value so I don't think there's much of a risk either way.

The gist is that the AlphaMix has some really intriguing features that the 442 doesn't have... but the 442 is drop dead sexy and I'm very familar with this mixer... I use a 442 all the time so it would be easy for me to go that route...

My situation is somewhat different... in that I occasionally work with two cams. In the past we've had a second soundguy when we run two cams, but with the AlphaMix I could run sound for both cams all by myself... it's got 2 beta-snakes + a crap-ton of outputs... plus it replaces the remote audio power distribution in my other bag... it will power 4 Lectro wireless sets... plus it will accept the NP-1 batteries that I already use... plus it's got individual level LEDS on EACH of the 4 channels plus the standard level display... plus it's got ALL the other features of the 442... and finally, it's about $700 LESS then the 442. (not counting the power distribution savings)

So can anybody comment on this?

One thing I've noticed with the sound jobs I do... is that nobody has any clue what I'm using. On this forum we talk about street cred and what people want to see as far as gear... well I used to think that way, but my pro bag is 442 and Lectro... cos11 lavs and cs3e gun... basically all top-end kit... and nobody ever sees inside of that bag. It even uses an NP-1 cup and distribution set so nothing ever comes out of the bag... I flip the top flap open and start running sound. Nobody has ever looked or asked what's in play.

So from a convenience standpoint I'm thinking the Alphamix may be a smart choice for me since it does everything the 442 does, specs are about the same, plus it does a lot of things the 442 doesn't do.

The biggest possible advantage is being able to run sound on two cams simultaneously and monitoring both cams simultaneously... then one soundguy can do the work of two. That seems like a good way to promote my services over the competition. In my local market I'd think that would give me a lock on two-cam shoots.

Thoughts?
 
Matt, I would stay away from the alphamix. PSC's build quality is subpar compared to SD products. Don't let price fool you. The 442 does have 2 camera support just not two hirose connectors.

You are using one of the best ENG mixers out there, but to go down in quality, there is a reason why it's a lot less. Street cred is something I have not heard before. For episodic TV here in Los Angeles, I have never seen anyone compare gear or even have a clue. Producers, cameramen, etc could care less if you use a G2 or Lectro. You should be using gear based on its performance factor.
 
Matt,

Ive had this same debate with myself before and never reached a conclusion - 442 just seems a safer bet.

I really commend PSC though, how cool is come of the stuff that mixer does?!?! I actually wish SD would look at some of the innovations PSC feature, and release a new friggin mixer dammit!

The 442, in my opinion, is long overdue for an updated model. Sure, build quality and audio quality are probably the best, but PSC has some really original stuff in their designs - just look at the Miranda. Its a really great idea from a clever company.
 
dont know about that one , but the privius model was noisy , ,quit allot of failures , dint survive to long before was replaced by this model
dont know how is the meters on that one but the previous mk4mark 2 i like to forget as soon as possible

clever desighn dosnt do anything - check the filmteck that was themost clever mixer - it dead as people payed twice ones to buy it and secend time someone who will take it :-)
it sounded as good as the eng mixer could be , but suffered from failuers .
 
Dean Wuhl said:
Matt, I would stay away from the alphamix. PSC's build quality is subpar compared to SD products. Don't let price fool you. The 442 does have 2 camera support just not two hirose connectors.

You are using one of the best ENG mixers out there, but to go down in quality, there is a reason why it's a lot less. Street cred is something I have not heard before. For episodic TV here in Los Angeles, I have never seen anyone compare gear or even have a clue. Producers, cameramen, etc could care less if you use a G2 or Lectro. You should be using gear based on its performance factor.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm... I get requests for gear lists before shooting so it matters to some. YMMV.

Funny Matt, I'm right in the middle of this myself. I have both and am using the Alpha mix more and more. The 442 may get sold. Not sure what to do at this very moment in time.

Actually the specs are little better for the Alpha Mix. The larger transformers DO make a HUGE difference in the Aplha Mix over the 442.

You guys probably already have, but, check it out:

http://www.professionalsound.com/Catalog/4CHMIXERCOMPARISON.pdf
 
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Matt, gotta ask you or any of the other folks; isn't monitoring camera just for the boom op?

My sentiments on what the camera is getting as far as what audio they are recording, is that the audio on THOSE cameras are for two things mainly;

1. Guide for post editing and ADR etc.

2. A saftey, in case me and my 744T or 702T's get hit by a truck and smashed on the way home, even though I only had ONE beer. Honestly - one! : )

Main reasons are the converters on the cameras always suck. Someone will tweek the level's change to line-in and/or disconnect audio feeds (going into camera) altogether etc., when we're not looking.

I tell the crew: " Here's a DVDRam, please use the camera feeds ONLY as editing guide." I own a post studio so almost always what I record on the larger decks (Deva, 744 & 722) are what is ultimately used and edited here.
 
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in 2 words whith this aproach you will not survive for long time .
camera sound in these days is what usially people get home
at least on comertials and films i did resently , the back up is if they really pay for it or if i really need be separated from the camera .
the tv world live quit nice with the camera quality and why not if it does what dat did 5 years ago in 40milions feuters .
i guess you get good money for the 744 rentals since if i had to produce your gigs i suppose you was getting **** :-)
 
My 2 cents is stay away from PSC and only consider the big 3 (In my opinion) Cooper, SQN and SD. You get what you pay for. I purchased my SQN-4S used for $2,500.00 and it has made me over 50K over the years so far and still works great and the pots are silent. All the new cameras out are very sensitive to distortion if the match isn't perfect. Sometimes you will get more headroom on line level than mic level depending on the camera. The most important thing is to ALWAYS listen to return and don't use lo-cut unless there is no alternative. Good luck.
 
When I run pro sound it's for cable tv or local news, not features... i.e. ENG or EFP (currently Video Justice is running something we did... it's about an insurance scam that was done near Cape Gerardo, MO... people are intentionally ramming a tree to total a mini-van... all that segment and interviews including the judge was me)...

Sometimes it's for Modern Marvels or E!Tv... we use BetaCam, DigiBeta, and VariCam... all straight from the 442 into the cam via snake. We sometimes run several Lectros wirelessly from my bag to the cam... which may have me running boom and mixing that with wireless simultaneously... in those cases my cam op is wearing ear-buds so he is the confidence rather then me getting a return feed.

Our normal practice has the snake with return so I can monitor that... but the gist is that I never get the luxury of a boom op... I AM the boom op and the mixer... and all sound runs directly into the cam. They may work the audio some prior to air... but normally my return sounds as good as an ipod.

For the record I also have a 671 that I can run simultaneous record on... but anymore I hardly ever consider it.

The appeal in the AlphaMix is that I can run TWO cams simultaneously... the 442 can do that through adapters and stuff... but the AlphaMix can beta-snake two cams. That's a big deal because it frees the cam-ops to break-away and I've got independent or mutual monitoring of both cams... the 442 does not do that. The other thing is the individual meters on each channel are a nice touch.

For the record I'm leaning to the SD... but nobody's going to look at an equipment list and care if it says AlphaMix or 442. Nobody that I deal with anyway... but they would notice if I say I can run sound for a 2 cam shoot all by myself. That saves the producers $400 right there. No big deal... not trying to step on any toes here... I'm just sayin'... there's a reason why I put this thread up. Yes I know we all admire SD gear... I'm just trying to hear the other side of this comparo.
 
Oleg 2 said:
in 2 words whith this aproach you will not survive for long time .
camera sound in these days is what usially people get home
at least on comertials and films i did resently , the back up is if they really pay for it or if i really need be separated from the camera .
the tv world live quit nice with the camera quality and why not if it does what dat did 5 years ago in 40milions feuters .
i guess you get good money for the 744 rentals since if i had to produce your gigs i suppose you was getting shi* :-)
Click to expand...

I don't know, I've been doin' this for over ten years (25 years including post, sound design and composing) and most studios will want dailies sent out (sometimes twice a day) and they ain't gettin' that from the camera (as far as audio is concerned). If I ever showed up without a recorder - I would not get called back. Nobody I run into feels the camera quality converters are above what most audio crews own or bring to the shoots. That's why they hire us guys in the first place. I would never ever show up to a shoot without a recorder and hope and or assume I could just use someone else's camera to record the audio.

ENG is a little different, but even when I get into those situations I show up prepared with my recorders and usually use them. The 702T gets used constantly, even in run-n-gun. Lectros on the subjects, 411a's in the bag w/ the 702T - don't even need a mixer in many cases.

I always send the cameras audio feeds and when the DP claims, on the set, that he'll just use the camera's audio - 9 times out of 10 I get called back for my audio that was recorded on my big decks.

YMMV.

Anyway, Matt the sound of the Alpha mix is a bit better, the transformers make it much more warm and smooth. I haven't had any QC or reliability prtoblems with the Alpha Mix yet. I understand people's concerns with PSC's electronic designs/QC/robustness but their hardware is built pretty well. My PSC sound cart is built like a friggin' tank.
 
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you are defenetly live in a good place on the hile whi very high standards
.here double system you can see only on film shotes lately .
since it is less then 1% vof all the work you really dont see it to much .
sorry i dont do reality **** so the docos are mostly go directly to the camera ( in my case with zaxcom ) and i never heard that something was bad
comercials - 90% of hd from some sort hvx 200- sony 900r - staright to the camera , no complains .
different world here down sters :-)
 
about alfa mix - it maybe not to much apritiated or just people have bad memory from the priviues model
or like it alwais happend mob rulls -
i know here only 2 guys whith this one , both do not complain .
buth then i see all the renting companies around and i dont see even 1
 
Always disliked everything about PSC gear (they do make a fine cart though). I have heard nothing but bad things about their past mixers but as is reflected in this thread and other feedback, the Alphamix seems to have turned a corner for them.

Personally I still wouldn't make the switch but at the same time I wouldn't steer you away from getting one Matt. Have you had a chance to actually play with one yet?

Good luck
 
Hey Matt,

Why not give PSC a call? I met the owner at DV Expo in 2005 and he was a really nice guy - going through all of the major hassles associated with re-tooling all of their electronics to not use lead-based solder (new regs in Europe apparently make this a no-no).

Give them a call - they might let you try one for a week or two to help make your decision.

Phil
 
The new regs apply here also... it's called ROHS compliance.

I may give them a call... that would surprise me for them to lend out a $2K (retail) mixer... but uh, you think they'd like that idea?

Wabbit... I haven't got a chance to play with one yet... I could get an MK4 and try it out... maybe I should just do that. I've got plenty of time in on the 442... so whatever... I do wish PSC would buck up on the knobs. They are screwing themselves on appearance. I don't think it would cost that much to make the AlphaMix look like a Cooper with their current achitecture. It's just knobs and faceplate... how much could that be?
 
My feeling is it never hurts to ask. I can't find his business card so I don't remember his name, but as I said, he was a nice guy and seemed very reasonable.

At the very least, he might be able to point you to someone that can rent you a unit for testing.

Phil
 
What a great thread! All the important players!

1. The guy who makes those kick-butt cables for everyone around here (Matt)
2. The guy who sold me his pristine back-up 416 (Oleg)
3. And the guy who appreciated my Edirol R-09 field report and turned me on to rechargeable AA batteries (Wabbit)

The audio section of this board is starting to feel like my neighborhood pub!!!

Matt--- I've owned the Alphamix for 2 years, and it's made money and great sound for some great cleints-- The Rachel Ray Show, Bill Kurtis, The Dr. Keith Ablow show, ESPN, P Diddy, The US Marines, The US Navy, commercials, independent features, yadda, yadda.

I've never used or a 442, but I'm sure it's a great mixer as the 302s I've played with are great. The Alphamix sounds beautiful to my ear, and with two beta snakes, a two cam shoot, or cam/recorder shoot is a smooth move.

I bought one IDX NiMh NP-1 when I got the mixer, and an overnight charge has lasted me well beyond a full 10-hour day with phantom power going out to boom mic.

I have NEVER worked with a separate boom op--- the remote control feature on the Alphamix seemed like a gimick to me when I bought the thing. But it is very, very cool once you get used to it. Ron Meyer even designed a special quick disconnect remote cable for me a few weeks ago, and it is the bee's knees! SOOOO easy to adjust boom levels with one hand and have another free for boom pole control or mixing the other channels.

The individual channel meters are nice--- you can keep an eye on them when the main knob is zeroed out before bringing main up, and they allow you to adjust the individual channels as they are sent out via the 4 mini-xlrs to your recorder-- if you run that set-up.

The 400Khz tone is real nice, the channel LEDs are easily readable in sunlight, as is the main LCD meter, and the LCD back-light is also very bright for interior work. The lo-cuts work well with all my mics, and the PFL buttons are also nice features.

Over the last two years I have come up with a list of small annoyances, but these only pop up periodically and aren't a 'NO GO' in my opinion:

1. With the OEM porta-brace bag, there is an infrequent tendancy for the Line/Mic switch on channel 1 output to get bumped from the 'L' position to the 'M' position. This had me and a camera guy stumped one day when we weren't getting audio on channel 1 after lunch. Turns out that the fabric 'cut' of the bag is a little too tight in this area when the bag is new--- I have not had this happen in a really long time, and would notice it right away anyway, since I'm a 'return listenin' whore.'

2. The main mix knobs could, in my opinion, have a little more 'tension' to them. I sometimes feel like the smallest brush of the finger could jostle an adjacent channel up or down while adjusting the other-- hasn't happened yet, but it's just something I worry about once in a while.

3. While I love the chrome toggle switch for the A-HP-B monitor select switch, it can be a bit loud to switch over during a take in close proximity to the mics. If it's a quiet interview-- you'll be afraid that little CLICK will go to tape. A knob like the L-R-ST-MONO selector may have been a quieter alternative.

4. There is no separate 3.5mm stereo confidence return input (returns are only hooked in through the Hirose 10-pins). I would have liked to see this feature so that I could run HP out of my Edirol R-09 into the Alphamix to monitor this unit (or any other recorder) in addition to 1 or 2 cameras. (I suppose I could run my second beta-snake for this purpose, but.....)

5. Stick with true 'HIROSE' snake cables. I got a remote audio cable that had a knock off 10-pin that didn't QUITE fit right. Made a terrible connection with the return. Got a 2nd good quality snake from Gotham Sound with a HIROSE-brand connector, and all is well.

6. There are some days I wish it were a bit smaller and a tad lighter, but those are long days, and for the most part I wish I were a bit smaller and a tad lighter as well.


As for PSC quality--- this is the only mixer I have ever used from them and it's great. At MindSight and Del Hall Video I used a Shure FP33, and I would put the build quality of the PSC a notch above the 33. I've never had a quality related problem with the mixer, and when I sent an email to PSC to ask about the remote cable, Ron Meyer himself emailed me back and we discussed the particulars of the cable--- I have respect for that.

If you have a free day in the next couple of weeks and want to take mine for a spin let me know, I live near Joliet, maybe we could meet half way, or if you have to come into Chicago for something, let me know. Please let me know if you have any other specific questions!
 
nice post man.


seriously, i really like the way PSC think. I just feel like SD stuff is built better. What we need, I reckon, is a joint initiative between Ron and Jon (thats pretty funny). Sure, its not gonna happen. But it would be cool!

tim
 
ptalsky said:
Hey Matt,

Why not give PSC a call? I met the owner at DV Expo in 2005 and he was a really nice guy - going through all of the major hassles associated with re-tooling all of their electronics to not use lead-based solder (new regs in Europe apparently make this a no-no).

Give them a call - they might let you try one for a week or two to help make your decision.

Phil
Click to expand...

Not to hijack this thread...

Phil, do you know if the DV Promix3 was made before this or after their re-tooling of their lead-based solders?
 
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