P2 glitch similar to 'tape hits'

You should try switching to the A1 they dont have any problems with Mac. GASP did he just say.... I wouldn't use a PC either and suggesting another platform is a lazy solution. The majority of people that use Macs and P2 have no problems. Nobody seems as interested in helping to solve the problem as much as they are interested in telling dude to drop the mac. After a 10 year wait finally a reason to wave the Microsoft flag, PC's work better with P2, fact, now take a bow and sit down. It is indubitably a Mac problem, however, it can be solved. Just because none of you geniuses knows the answer doesn't mean the situation is irreparable. Let me attempt to address the Issue.
1. What computer are you using?
2. What version of the OS?
3. What version of FCP?
4. How much memory?
5. Give a detailed account of your workflow from P2 to HD
Everyone that I know that uses the HVX or P2 uses a Mac (about 4 people) and has 0 problems. Good Luck.
 
Good to hear that I completely misunderstood your earlier postings. I and a number of other's here are willing to help, but I for one don't want to have artificial impediments thrown up due to some inept philosophical stance, its just a waste of my time.

I have extensive background in failure analysis (both hardware and software) and can contribute by conveying concepts of testing and evaluation that may lead to a solution. While I have no personal interest in this problem (I have moved away from Macs a few years back) I do have customers and business associates that are Mac users so I have an ancillary interest in a solution.

So, since you seem to have an active problem, you are a great candidate to use as a test bed, assuming that you are willing. Since you are the one that originated this thread, I will leave my further participation in this thread at your discretion.
 
Disco Robo said:
. . . I wouldn't use a PC either and suggesting another platform is a lazy solution. The majority of people that use Macs and P2 have no problems. Nobody seems as interested in helping to solve the problem as much as they are interested in telling dude to drop the mac. After a 10 year wait finally a reason to wave the Microsoft flag, PC's work better with P2, fact, now take a bow and sit down . . . Just because none of you geniuses knows the answer doesn't mean the situation is irreparable . . .
Click to expand...
Oh really? So using a PC to accomplish the task of offloading P2 cards is a "lazy solution?"

And how long do you suppose suffering Mac/P2 users should try to work on solving this problem (that no other users have been able to solve for a year, BTW)? Should they work on it for another month while they lose valuable footage and potentially clients? How about another quarter year? Half a year? How about another whole year? Just how long will it take for some user(s) or Apple to solve this problem? And how long is too long to wait and/or keep searching for a Mac solution?

Mac P2 workflow = currently flawed in terms of reliability and affecting enough people that it is a well-known and discussed issue

PC P2 workflow issue = currently superior in reliability with practically all who use it

It's a no brainer to me as to what to do if I were using a Mac and experiencing these problems. It's not about "dropping" the Mac. It's about removing the problem (the Mac) from one aspect of the workflow and replacing it with a reliable solution (the PC).

No, thank you - I (and others) don't need to take a bow for suggesting a practical solution.

But maybe I'm just too lazy . . .
 
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Let's reiterate here: there are many users with the Mac experiencing no problem at all. Good for them, and kudos for them. Nobody's saying "PC is better than Mac." What we are saying is: certain Mac users are experiencing a problem. Nobody knows how to fix it. Nobody knows where the problem is, exactly, except that it's restricted to Macs. If you're experiencing the problem, WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO FIX IT. But we do know that a very cheap and easy way to AVOID the problem is simply to not use a Mac to offload cards! Use a PC to do that and you will 100% guaranteed avoid the problem.

So Mac users should be yelling at Apple, pleading with Apple, demanding that Apple fix the problem. UNTIL THEN, what are you supposed to do? How are we supposed to advise people? We advise them in the only rational way that makes sense: use a tool that works so that you can guarantee your workflow. Use a PC laptop to transfer the cards, not a Mac laptop (unless you have never experienced "the glitch" and are absolutely sure that you never WILL experience "the glitch").

You can still use your Mac to edit. Nobody's taking that away. Nobody, frankly, CARES what system you use. Use whatever you want. But use what WORKS. Macs are not, not, not 100% reliable when transferring cards. Maybe they're 99% reliable, I don't know. But I know that this forum and CreativeCow and probably other forums have repeatedly had threads that ask about the glitch, and it is ALWAYS someone on the Mac. The glitch happens. It happens on Macs. So it brings the age-old joke to mind:

Patient: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this."
Doctor: "Then don't do that."

Is it a solution? No, but is it insanity to keep doing that which hurts until a solution is found? Yes. So until Apple FIXES IT, you're left with the question of "what are you going to do about it?" I say it's fundamental to identify the problem and then implement a solution. The problem is that there's something broken with the way some Macs handle P2. The solution is for Apple to fix it. Until they do, avoid the problem. Use a tool that works -- either a different Mac, or a cheap PC.
 
Barry_Green said:
Is it a solution? No, but is it insanity to keep doing that which hurts until a solution is found? Yes. So until Apple FIXES IT, you're left with the question of "what are you going to do about it?" I say it's fundamental to identify the problem and then implement a solution. The problem is that there's something broken with the way some Macs handle P2. The solution is for Apple to fix it. Until they do, avoid the problem. Use a tool that works -- either a different Mac, or a cheap PC.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Barry. That's probably a better way to phrase what I've been trying to say.
 
i have few questions since i use 5.1.2 on a macbook pro; although i have significant bias in favor of PCs, i love Final Cut and feel very comfortable with Mac OSX during editing... i should also say that i've never had a problem transferring files to my mac. with that said, i haven't done massive transfers either yet, just a few clips at a time directly into FCP.

1. if i transfer the p2 cards via bootcamp or parallels, will that essentially be the same as using a cheap-o PC in the sense of additional reliability? if this is true, for those who have newer mac laptops why wouldn't you just do this? seems rather immature to simply disregard using the more reliable option if it's incorporated into the same system!

2. can some one just quickly explain the major problem in 5.1.2 to me about transferring these files? i've noticed the P2 importer is a little finicky. soon i'll be doing a lot of work with my HVX and the more information i have about making my workflow robust the better.

is there a thread or a webpage that illustrates the best way to use P2 on a mac? i fear that since i've had zero problems on the platform i'm somewhat ignorant to the fact that these issues exist. i guess what i'm asking is if someone could just point me in the right direction

peace!
 
Finding a solution to this problem, not an ALTERNATIVE is my goal. The alternatives are clear, they have been from the beginning. Suggesting the use of PC does not bring any understanding of this situation nor is it helpful when the original poster said in not so many words, "PC, no thank you". I'm not interested in petty platform debates but I would like to know specifically what causes this problem so it can be avoided in the future. My questions to the original poster as well as any others who have experienced this problem.
1. What computer are you using?
2. What version of the OS?
3. What version of FCP?
4. How much memory?
5. Give a detailed account of your workflow from P2 to HD
I know already PC's have flawless P2 workflow, thank you in advance.
 
And, what programs do you have running? Norton, internet connections, bluetooth connections, virus checkers, firewalls, etc. Anything like that would be vital information.

What version of FCP is almost irrelevant; the glitch happens before FCP even touches the footage.
 
Now that I'm curious I did a search and saw some of the other posts related to this topic. A question for Barry or anyone else who has encountered this problem, Does it ever occur over firewire or is it always a problem with the pcmcia bus.
 
I really wanted to believe it was only the PCMCIA bus, but I'm pretty sure we've seen reports of people getting glitches through firewire too.
 
You know, I'd equate it to this. Space shuttle breaks apart on re-entry. We didn't know why exactly (well, we did, but NASA didn't want to admit they were wrong. But that's another thread), but it was clear that we couldn't send another one up until it was sorted.

Still, the work had to go on and the astronauts on the space-station had to get supplies. So, what did they do? They used a proven Russian craft to jockey men and materials up there until a safer shuttle could be deployed.

So, the good advice you're getting here is to use a PC or FS100 or other proven device until you can troubleshoot your Apple / Mac OS / P2 system out. There have been several offers to benchmark your system against a working one - just let us know what city you live in and you should be on your way to finding the culprit.

e
 
Disco Robo said:
A question for Barry or anyone else who has encountered this problem, Does it ever occur over firewire or is it always a problem with the pcmcia bus.
Click to expand...

I have seen it occur by copying footage from one drive to another over the FW bus.
Not sure about copying out the FW bus of the camera though.
 
Jimmy did you shoot another test and see if played back in the camera fine? I couldn't dig through all the bickering to find an actual update on how you were going about testing it.

Curious as I am about to implent a P2 workflow and would like to see your issue resolved.
 
Does anyone who is fed up with Apple's issues regarding P2 offloading want to help me find a way to get Linux to work with P2?

Remember, you can load Linux on your Mac...

In regards to the problem at hand, couldn't you also just capture live to your notebook via Firewire into FCP? At least until the P2 offloading issue is resolved, anyway.
 
TwistedLincoln said:
In regards to the problem at hand, couldn't you also just capture live to your notebook via Firewire into FCP?
Click to expand...

Well you could but if you figure out a way to do that while the camera is in an underwater housing in 20 feet of water or you are riding in a raft on class 3 & 4 rapids, please let me know.
 
It will probably be easier to solve this bug than it will be to port the entire operation over to Linux. Then again maybe it's not, good luck to you. Back to the matter at hand. Have there been any Confirmed FW problems anyone? Ozduc you're claiming the very nature of P2 corrupts the transfer process on a Mac? I find that almost impossible to believe but if you have first hand experience please share the specifics. I'd really like to figure this out. Thanks, Jason.
 
Disco Robo said:
Ozduc you're claiming the very nature of P2 corrupts the transfer process on a Mac? I find that almost impossible to believe but if you have first hand experience please share the specifics. I'd really like to figure this out. Thanks, Jason.
Click to expand...

Jason, I have made NO such claims at all and I don't know where you got that idea from.
The only thing I have said all along on this subject is that I have not had any problems with my workflow. ie. P2 card into PCMCIA slot of my G4 PB, drag and drop contents and last clip .txt to FW drives.
However what I have witnessed is when I took my FW drive (with files that were OK) to a MACPro Tower and copied those files to another FW drive, the footage on the new drive was corrupt when I looked at it in the import P2 window of FCP. So I deleted them, then hooked up the same 2 drives to my laptop and did the copy again and this time it was OK. So that would lead me to believe the problem is at the OS finder level or a conflict with some software that was on the MACPRO.
 
Would it be possible to isolate the PCMCIA issue from firewire given that most of us are using firewire drives as the destination? Someone with the problem would need to test the transfer to a powerbook internal drive with no firewire involved. Or copy to both drives and verify the two transfers?
 
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