Audio too low when using external mic

F

FrancoandBilly

New member
Can anyone shed some light on how to get a good signal when using an external mic (we're using a Rode NTG 2)? We've been recording using a balance of the camera's built in mic and the Rode. The little dials for Input 1 and 2 are up pretty high like at 3 o'clock. We put the input that the Rode is plugged into a little higher. But when we load the footage into Final Cut Pro 5 the signal is really low. Have to layer 6 audio tracks to get the signal where it should be. Any advice? Thanks.

-jEff
 
i'm going to go out on a limb and ask a dumb question. did you set the mic input to your external mic? i use the ntg 2 also, and haven't had a similar problem. hopefully this is your problem, and an easy fix.
 
Make sure the line/mic switch is set to mic on the front of the camera by the XLRs. Then monitor your audio level on the meters; you should be peaking at about three red dots.
 
Similar problem

Similar problem

Hi there.

I'm having a similar problem

I recording audio using an external mic and when I capture into Premier Pro, the levels are really low.

I've tried both a Sony ECM44B lavalier and a AKG hand mic.

Both mics have been put into XLR input 1, and my Channel 1 has been set to Input 1.

Like FrancoandBiilly I have to turn the dial to at least 2 o'clock to get a decent signal.

* Just so we're clear, the audio meter when recording just enters the "red zone", perhaps 2 or 3 dots.

I have a feeling there must be something obvious I'm doing wrong.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Peter
 
Thanks Barry,

The line/mic switch is indeed set to "mic" and the audio meter is about 2-3 red dots.

Is this something that all NLE have in common? Do I have to boost the audio signal everytime?

I keep thinking there must be something I'm missing. Perhaps in the menu (though I've made no changes).

Peter
 
No, this is not normal - level in the NLE should reflect level on the camera. But you need to tell us exactly what your levels are like on the camera - that is, what is the AVERAGE level? If your peaks into the red are very rare, and the average level is down in the low white dots, then your levels are likely too low in-camera.

1) What's your AVERAGE level on the camera's meters?
2) Are you listening as you record? Does it sound OK through the headphones? Are your peaks on sounds you want, or on incidental sounds like wind or microphone taps?
3) If you play a tape back in the camera, are the levels what you expect?
4) How are you judging signal level in FCP? Is there any chance you have the 2 tracks set as dual mono, and that they're somehow phase-reversed and canceling each other out? Are you looking at levels in the Audio Mixer to see the individual track levels? What does your waveform look like?
 
1. The average level of the camera meters is "all white dots" when I'm speaking normally. When I raise my voice, I get one or two red dots.

* The audio dial is set to 3 o'clock (almost max)

2. The recording is is done in a studio, no background noise, wind, etc.

3. When I play the tape back, the levels are the same as when I recorded them. It sounds fine in the headphones, perhaps a little low.

5. I'm using Premier Pro 1.5, and I'm capturing as I have done for the last few years. Never a problem before.

* Note that when I "boost" the audio in Premier (+14 dB) the audio sounds fine with no distortion.

I have to say I've kind of scared the hell out of myself today. I've been researching this camera for almost a year and never have I read a post, or heard anybody say anything about low audio levels. I can't believe this is something users just "deal with".

Thanks in advance for everyone's help. I'm hoping I can resolve this soon.

Peter
 
Last edited:
Me Myself & I said:
I have to say I've kind of scared the hell out of myself today. I've been researching this camera for almost a year and never have I read a post, or heard anybody say anything about low audio levels. I can't believe this is something users just "deal with".
Peter
Click to expand...


Ummm... what do you mean?

a) There's lots of posts about low audio levels; and
b) The camera is great for audio when used right; it doesn't have a problem

...well, except perhaps a semantic problem (the subject of the posts mentioned above). Where many audio meters have a spectrum of green/yellow/orange/red, the DVX meters jump directly to red. But there's a lot of red. The first red dot is about -12dBFS; so if your audio averages there on the camera, it should be -12 in the NLE. The last red dot (not really a dot like the others, but an "I" shaped end-bracket) is 0dBFS, which is where red starts on most meters.

Now, -12dBFS is a standard level many broadcast professionals aim to average. But if you prefer to have higher levels, you can certainly push a lot farther into the red than you are.

-Barry
 
Sorry for the confusion.

Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for the advice.

Sorry for any confusion. I think I may have been over-generalizing. My main comment was that I haven't seen any posts that state "Natively recorded audio on the DVX always required boosting in an NLE".

Now, just so we're clear, when I record with a Sony Lavalier mic, speaking at normal volume, audio dial set to 2 o'clock:

I get all white dots (with one red) representing -12dB

Since the normal range for audio in NLE editors is between -6dB and 0dB, I would have to boost that signal.

This is normal for the DVX. You must boost every time

Is this correct?

Peter
 
If you want audio at -6dBFS, then you should average halfway through the red range on the DVX. I'm not sure that's the "normal range"... but, hey. 6dB doesn't leave much of a safety margin when recording.

Again, THE RED RANGE ON THE DVX IS MUCH LARGER THAN THE RED RANGE ON MOST METERS. So you can push far into it if you really want to, and indeed, many folks end up setting levels lower on the DVX than on other devices because of this. I know I did the first time I used it! But its just something you have to understand, and you won't have a problem.

Anyway - six copies of the audio? Doesn't Premiere have a %$#%$ trim plug-in, or any plugin that can add gain? Sheesh! Having to layer audio is sad!
 
[SIZE=+0]Evenin'[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]I think you're getting me confused with the first poster "FrankandBilly" he needed six layers of audio.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Premier does allow you to boost the audio.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Another question (if you don't mind). When you record audio (getting it in the red range), what position is your audio dial?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]For me, I have to crank it to the 3 o'clock position to get red dots. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]Thanks again.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]
Peter

[/SIZE]
 
It depends a lot on the particular mics and situation. I almost always use external preamps, but as I recall I sometimes had the mic gains at least as far as "3 o'clock". I mean, that's why they go to 5o'cock or so... there are situations where you need it. Even at line level, some of my external preamps/audio devices need the dial set at 12, some at 2 o'clock, some at 10. There's a lot of variation out there. But 3 o'clock isn't unreasonable, except that for applications using that much boost an external preamp would probably show a noticeable benefit.


I think you're getting me confused with the first poster "FrankandBilly" he needed six layers of audio.
Click to expand...

Quite right; FrankyBilly, the FCP Dynamics plugin will let you add something like 40dB of gain if the 12dB on the mixer aren't enough...
 
Breathing a little easier now

Breathing a little easier now

Once again, thanks ullanta.

You are right that there are so many different mics out there that it's difficult to say what's "right", when it comes to settings. I'm just glad to hear that setting it to 3 o'clock or futher is not unheard of for a standard lavalier set up.

Have a great weekend.

Peter
 
There's a -50/-60 pad in the recording setup menu. Try toggling that and see if you get louder levels using that mic.

If the meters on the DVX are showing 3 red dots as peaks, you shouldn't have to adjust it *at all* in the NLE. Put up your NLE's meters, you should see it peaking at -6dB. What gets recorded in-camera is what you've got when you capture the footage.
 
Barry_Green said:
There's a -50/-60 pad in the recording setup menu. Try toggling that and see if you get louder levels using that mic.
Click to expand...


Ah yes, that, too! Shoulda thoughta that!
 
Mind reader

Mind reader

Hi Barry,

Wow. You are a mind reader. I just changed the setting in the menu from -50 to -60 and now the mic is loud and clear. When speaking at a normal volume, I get 3 red dots. Fantastic.

Could you explain what the -50/-60 setting means? It's a little confusing that minus 60 would be louder than minus 50. Is it boosting the audio signal or just limiting it less?

Again, thanks to you and ullanta, only 2 days with the camera and already I see why the DVX community is so strong.

Have a great weekend.

Peter
 
This setting determines what the camera thinks of as "nominal mic level" - that is, how strong a signal it expects the mic to put out (and therefore, how much to boost it to get to line level). dB scales for sound tend to be referenced to 0dB, so most good signal ranges fall into the negative range (e.g., many folks aim to average -12dB, and you'll often hear that peaks should never exceed 0dB). So, as negative numbers, larger magnitudes mean a smaller signal strength (that is, -60 is smaller than -50), just as in temperature, -60 degrees is less heat than -50 degrees. Brrrrr! But this is about the camera's EXPECTATION of the signal level, so when it thinks the signal is weaker, it boosts it more. So, expecting -60, the camera boosts the level 10dB more than when it expects -50 dB.

Now, a question for you, Me, Myself, and I! As I've said, I tend to use external preamps, and frankly have never used a mic with the DVX that required the -60dB setting. Now, you should be able to geth the same effect by cranking the gain knob up higher (that is, you should get the same average level in 2 cases: at -60db with the gain lower, and at -50dB with the gain higher), unless the gain knob doesn't quite go high enough. Can you just confirm, for the heck of it, whether the first situation (-60dB, lower gain) is cleaner/less noisy than the second situation (-50dB, higher gain)?

Glad in any case you've got this worked out,
Barry
 
Confirmation

Confirmation

Hi Barry.

Great explanation. I understand perfectly now.

To confirm - when the setting is -50dB, I have to set the recording volume dial to the 3 o'clock position to get 3 red dots.

When the setting is -60dB, I can set the recording volume dial to the 12 o'clock position and get three red dots.

This is for normal conversation level audio, and I have not noticed any more noise at -60dB than at -50dB. Both are very clean.

I prefer the -60dB setting, because I don't have to "crank it", and if someone is particularly soft-spoken, I have the ability to increase the audio.

Have a great weekend.

Peter
 
thanks

thanks

Just read the thread. Glad this opened a discussion on the subject as I think my questions may be answered. Will go back and adjust the -50 to -60 and see what happens. Thanks for replying everyone.

-Jeff
of
Franco and Billy
 
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