but thats how you gotta do it. noone but robert rodriguez can pull the one man band. and even then, his work suffers.
New York City DVXUSER Crew Presents: Katrina
- Thread starter TimurCivan
- Start date
Ted Arabian
Member with Ladder
Exactly! That is how you gotta do it. Filmmaking is a team sport! And there are SO MANY players involved! It is why I was so excited and ready to fly across the country 3 times to make this film. I didn't want to do that one-man show again!!!TimurCivan said:
Mark Harris
Pain in the ass
TimurCivan said:
exactly. it's about the team and everyone bringing different things to the table.
Mark Harris
Pain in the ass
well, we're pretty sure this one is going to leave people stunned. Between the lighting and camera you see, and the performances, prod design, locations, costumes...it's going to be pretty complete, I think. And wait till you see that COWBOY dude...
showdown.... Ninjas, vs Pirates, Vs Cowboys.
Beat Takeshi
Two-Hip Shakur
Theodore J Arabian said:
And i thought that was there so he can get change that fell through the subway gratings.
Mark Harris
Pain in the ass
Aram, pray tell what is the super-skilled technique for getting that green in there?
Beat Takeshi
Two-Hip Shakur
Did already, its a few pages back. I think it was a bottle of Pucker and a bottle of tequila with a 150 shooting through it with black wrap to make a snoot. I also did it in a close up of the collection dude. I threw some color on Godfried's arm in the foreground. The idea in my head was that since it was a close up of money I thought the green shafts kind of represented the power money has, it's almost godlike, hence the shafts of light. Thats just my own way of justifying the motivation for the light. I think if you went through every shot I can tell why something is there and what its doing even if its my own little inturpretation. For "Lake of Fire" there is a TON of these things planned out.
lol.... I love aram....
Beat Takeshi
Two-Hip Shakur
The funny thing is when I hear people talk about why they did things in depth and it starts to get weird I think its bs but I do the same damn thing and don't even realize it. Like in Lake of Fire, everything thats essential in the story happens in 3's and each is a beat and a half apart this symbolises the torment the hit man is going through also everything falls in 3's symbolising the demons in his mind coming to the surface and him falling away from reality. Also when this happens the cuts happen in 3's just to further push the idea. There are some other things in there that I don't want to mention until the film is done but they are even deeper than that.
well then i think people need to accept that as a work of art, there are intentional choices made, that reflect the final product. Good films, paintings, drawings, sculptures etc.... doent happen by accident you know??
WORKFLOW:
Here is some information on the workflow we are using to shoot Katrina. First off we are using the HVX / SGproREV2/ Serious magic HD rack software combination. we are shooting 720/24P over 60P with a 2:3 pull down. The reason for this is that the HDrack software cannot capture 24pN.
Footage logging: While theoretically we can shoot without Cards, i opted to keep the camera with a P2 card inside. the reasoning is this. If the Fire wire cable should be disconnected for any reason, and the HD rack capture be interrupted, the P2 card will be capturing the shot and the take is not wasted. since its flash, who cares if it gets full. When it fills, i reformat after the end of the take, and continue recording. HD rack is a GREAt piece of software, and its full res 720P Monitor while sharp, has a 1/2 second lag, and doesnt display the full framerate, leading to the image being jerky. This was a major problem for me while operating the camera as i couldnt frame up while the actors moved, because of the lag. However, i had a lowresolution, 16:9 DVD player with me for framing purposes, and this quickly solved the problem. The HD rack monitor is SUPERB for Focusing however, its Razor sharp.
Camera/SGpro: The HVX is truly an EXCELLENT camera. we utilized The Variable framerates, the natural, rich lush look it provides and in combination with its high dynamic range, and great highlight handling it provided a very film like latitude with great definiton. Aram, Alex Depew, Steve Bowling and I lit the set very carefully. I made a plan to light the set until we could reach a proper exposure at F2.8 on my 35mm Canon FD lenses. The reason i settled on F2.8 is this. i have 5 primes. the slowest of the bunch are two lenses, both F2.8, probably closer to T3.0 - T3.5. My theory is as follows, if you can light until your darkest (slowest) lens gets proper exposure to the camera, then you can interchange freely among the different lenses, without a disparity of wide ranging exposures in the footage. On Bloody Mary, some of the footage was VERY dark in comparison to the different setups in the same scene, because i used a slower F4 Wideangle lens as a wide shot to closeups shot with a 55mm F1.2. the CU's were about 3 stops brighter, and matching up the footage in post was difficult. ( thank you Zoe White (future ASC member for sure) for helping me realise this) Now if we had lit the scene to a point where the F4 lens had proper exposure, we could always close down the F1.2 lens, to compensate for added brightness ( or stop down the dvx iris to maintins the F1.2 super SHDOF instead). Also the added benefit is that the lenses get alot sharper when you stop down a bit, this is espacially evident in HD.
The SGpro Rev2 adapter is a hidden secret among 35 adapters. ITs the best 35 adapter that noone knows about. WAyne kinney, whom i have had an ongoing email conversation with for over a year, has kept me updated to all the advancements, and refinements hes been making in his design. Esssentially it breaks down like this. its a Spinning GG adapter, like the M2. Unlike the M2, it exhibits almost no vingetting, and because of a professionally designed, custom Achromatic Diopeter, it exhibits ZERO chroma Aberation, and No resolution loss on the edges of the frame. Also Waynes Secret weapon, the "magic GG" as he calls it. he wont tell me what he does to it. And quite frankly i dont care so long as it keeps putting out the image quality that it does. Pay attention to the quality of the Bokeh. it most closely resemebles 35mm Film, out of all the 35 adapters, including the Mini35. Its rich and solid, and doesnt allow the residual image to Ghost though creating a low quality look. This great piece of equiptment in combination with Great Canon FD lenses, provided us with a superb and fully controlabe camera setup. Because all my lenses are FD SSC lenses, and are spherical in build, they exhibit that distict charachteristic, found in most cinema lenses, the round disc of out of focus light. The fact that we matched the lenses in apeture helped meld the different charachteristics of the lenses together, and created in essence a "matched" set of Primes.
I am using:
Zesnar 16mm F2.8 Semi Fisheye
Canon FD 24mm F2.8
CAnon FD 35mm F2.0 SSC
Canon FD 50mm F1.4 SSC
Canon FD 55mm F1.2 SSC
Canon FD 125mm F2.5 SSC
Zesnar 200mm F 3.5 (su
Now you may be askin why do i have a 50mm and a 55mm??? The reason is the two lenses have different looks, the 55mm has a bit of barrel distortion at full wide when focusd up close, this creates a very unique effect that i put to good use. also, since closing down to F1.4 is a possibility, the lens instantly gets much sharper, and still retains almost no light loss. Also, the Zesnar lenses are Russian made lenses, based on german designs. They are relativly inexpensive, but perform very well.
AS far as the look goes, i was interested in crating a Dark smoky look. Incase you hadn't notices based on the poster.
.
I conferred with aram, that i wanted mostly hard back lighting, with Semi Hard Keylights, and Soft fills. I was influenced by the looks of films like "Cape Fear" "Out Of Sight" "The Underneath" and "The Black Dalia". My art references were, Edward hoppers drab, lonely worlds, Cindy Sherman's nostalgic sarcasm, and some of my own tricks
. While i didnt exactly copy any of these looks, i was very interested in incorporating my own art photographs into this. The hard, bright lights, and gels, to reference a kind of superreal that only works in Photgraphs, Theatre and Film. Its increadible how much disparity from reality the eye will tolerate so long as its beautiful. I hope the photographs i have taken you will all find beautiful. But you have to look fast, cause they flash by 24 times a second.......
Here is some information on the workflow we are using to shoot Katrina. First off we are using the HVX / SGproREV2/ Serious magic HD rack software combination. we are shooting 720/24P over 60P with a 2:3 pull down. The reason for this is that the HDrack software cannot capture 24pN.
Footage logging: While theoretically we can shoot without Cards, i opted to keep the camera with a P2 card inside. the reasoning is this. If the Fire wire cable should be disconnected for any reason, and the HD rack capture be interrupted, the P2 card will be capturing the shot and the take is not wasted. since its flash, who cares if it gets full. When it fills, i reformat after the end of the take, and continue recording. HD rack is a GREAt piece of software, and its full res 720P Monitor while sharp, has a 1/2 second lag, and doesnt display the full framerate, leading to the image being jerky. This was a major problem for me while operating the camera as i couldnt frame up while the actors moved, because of the lag. However, i had a lowresolution, 16:9 DVD player with me for framing purposes, and this quickly solved the problem. The HD rack monitor is SUPERB for Focusing however, its Razor sharp.
Camera/SGpro: The HVX is truly an EXCELLENT camera. we utilized The Variable framerates, the natural, rich lush look it provides and in combination with its high dynamic range, and great highlight handling it provided a very film like latitude with great definiton. Aram, Alex Depew, Steve Bowling and I lit the set very carefully. I made a plan to light the set until we could reach a proper exposure at F2.8 on my 35mm Canon FD lenses. The reason i settled on F2.8 is this. i have 5 primes. the slowest of the bunch are two lenses, both F2.8, probably closer to T3.0 - T3.5. My theory is as follows, if you can light until your darkest (slowest) lens gets proper exposure to the camera, then you can interchange freely among the different lenses, without a disparity of wide ranging exposures in the footage. On Bloody Mary, some of the footage was VERY dark in comparison to the different setups in the same scene, because i used a slower F4 Wideangle lens as a wide shot to closeups shot with a 55mm F1.2. the CU's were about 3 stops brighter, and matching up the footage in post was difficult. ( thank you Zoe White (future ASC member for sure) for helping me realise this) Now if we had lit the scene to a point where the F4 lens had proper exposure, we could always close down the F1.2 lens, to compensate for added brightness ( or stop down the dvx iris to maintins the F1.2 super SHDOF instead). Also the added benefit is that the lenses get alot sharper when you stop down a bit, this is espacially evident in HD.
The SGpro Rev2 adapter is a hidden secret among 35 adapters. ITs the best 35 adapter that noone knows about. WAyne kinney, whom i have had an ongoing email conversation with for over a year, has kept me updated to all the advancements, and refinements hes been making in his design. Esssentially it breaks down like this. its a Spinning GG adapter, like the M2. Unlike the M2, it exhibits almost no vingetting, and because of a professionally designed, custom Achromatic Diopeter, it exhibits ZERO chroma Aberation, and No resolution loss on the edges of the frame. Also Waynes Secret weapon, the "magic GG" as he calls it. he wont tell me what he does to it. And quite frankly i dont care so long as it keeps putting out the image quality that it does. Pay attention to the quality of the Bokeh. it most closely resemebles 35mm Film, out of all the 35 adapters, including the Mini35. Its rich and solid, and doesnt allow the residual image to Ghost though creating a low quality look. This great piece of equiptment in combination with Great Canon FD lenses, provided us with a superb and fully controlabe camera setup. Because all my lenses are FD SSC lenses, and are spherical in build, they exhibit that distict charachteristic, found in most cinema lenses, the round disc of out of focus light. The fact that we matched the lenses in apeture helped meld the different charachteristics of the lenses together, and created in essence a "matched" set of Primes.
I am using:
Zesnar 16mm F2.8 Semi Fisheye
Canon FD 24mm F2.8
CAnon FD 35mm F2.0 SSC
Canon FD 50mm F1.4 SSC
Canon FD 55mm F1.2 SSC
Canon FD 125mm F2.5 SSC
Zesnar 200mm F 3.5 (su
Now you may be askin why do i have a 50mm and a 55mm??? The reason is the two lenses have different looks, the 55mm has a bit of barrel distortion at full wide when focusd up close, this creates a very unique effect that i put to good use. also, since closing down to F1.4 is a possibility, the lens instantly gets much sharper, and still retains almost no light loss. Also, the Zesnar lenses are Russian made lenses, based on german designs. They are relativly inexpensive, but perform very well.
AS far as the look goes, i was interested in crating a Dark smoky look. Incase you hadn't notices based on the poster.
.I conferred with aram, that i wanted mostly hard back lighting, with Semi Hard Keylights, and Soft fills. I was influenced by the looks of films like "Cape Fear" "Out Of Sight" "The Underneath" and "The Black Dalia". My art references were, Edward hoppers drab, lonely worlds, Cindy Sherman's nostalgic sarcasm, and some of my own tricks
. While i didnt exactly copy any of these looks, i was very interested in incorporating my own art photographs into this. The hard, bright lights, and gels, to reference a kind of superreal that only works in Photgraphs, Theatre and Film. Its increadible how much disparity from reality the eye will tolerate so long as its beautiful. I hope the photographs i have taken you will all find beautiful. But you have to look fast, cause they flash by 24 times a second.......
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Timur, you're brilliant!
lol, not really im just surrounded by good people.
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Well said my friend...aren't we all! 
DVXuser rocks!
DVXuser rocks!
Mark Harris
Pain in the ass
yeah, I will write more about the concept later, but in general, I gave Timur several Soderberg films to watch, like the Limey, Out of Site, The Underneath, and told him just to filter those into his head. I then told him and the costumer, the set designer, that I wanted to indicate noir, without copying noir. I wanted noir to filtering through our sensibilities. the dialog also has a lot of noir tones, and a couple of outright corny lines. I've been working with the actors and telling them that the only way this stuff works is if they are 100% committed to it. And they are.
So my job is to make sure the performances are real and true and spontaneous and exciting, so all f this gorgeous lighting doesn't just become pretty - but boring - pictures.
I also told the set designer and costumer that I wanted to hint at 50s. It's not set in the 50s, but I wanted that as their influence.
I've also started giving Herman ideas on the music I want, and he agrees. We're looking at undertones of Mingus and Miles, again not imitating, but Herman's taking those influences and working them into his head. Then layer over something along the lines of Morcheeba, or even portishead, which to me represents the Cindy Sherman aesthetic timur mentioned, modern takes on classic things. Anyway, I know whatever Herman does will come out entirely his own as well.
A quick addition to workflow. I am capturing to a USB2 external enclosure with a 300gig SATA drive inside, then backing up to an identical drive at regular intervals. I was going to go with this whole RAID thing, but honestly, I've put enough money into this damned thing already and put the RAID off for another day.
So my job is to make sure the performances are real and true and spontaneous and exciting, so all f this gorgeous lighting doesn't just become pretty - but boring - pictures.
I also told the set designer and costumer that I wanted to hint at 50s. It's not set in the 50s, but I wanted that as their influence.
I've also started giving Herman ideas on the music I want, and he agrees. We're looking at undertones of Mingus and Miles, again not imitating, but Herman's taking those influences and working them into his head. Then layer over something along the lines of Morcheeba, or even portishead, which to me represents the Cindy Sherman aesthetic timur mentioned, modern takes on classic things. Anyway, I know whatever Herman does will come out entirely his own as well.
A quick addition to workflow. I am capturing to a USB2 external enclosure with a 300gig SATA drive inside, then backing up to an identical drive at regular intervals. I was going to go with this whole RAID thing, but honestly, I've put enough money into this damned thing already and put the RAID off for another day.
Last edited:
Ted Arabian
Member with Ladder
Timur, that was an excellent post you made on the workflow. I have copied and pasted that in a word document for future reference.
Nice work!
Really... nice work!
Can't wait to see your film, guys!!!
Nice work!
Really... nice work!
Can't wait to see your film, guys!!!
Mark Harris
Pain in the ass
Aram Bauman said:
ha ha, I IMed him yesterday with the grabs and he was like: "Someone watched my light and shadow DVD..."
jeremytuttle
Well-known member
This is some amazing information guys. I love that you guys are thinking of ways to represnt ideas and feelings in the way your lighting and shooting it. I really can't wait to see this one.
Mark Harris
Pain in the ass
well, as great as these grabs are, all I can say is you ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till wee post grabs from tomorrow's shoot. You REALLY ain't seen nothing yet.