Noise eliminated in HVX

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Overlook

Active member
Starting with the Cinelike-D setting I adjusted settings as follows and got great results, even in a night documentary setting lit with nothing more than store signs, streetlights and traffic. I could see detail even in black leather jackets but no noise.

Settings:
24 fps
1/24 shutter
-7 detail level
+7 detail coring
-7 pedestal
-7 V detail
B-gamma

I have complained of noise in the past and now I am very satisfied with this setting which I used in daylight also. I am not comparing it A/B with anything else--camera, setting, film--which is of course a better test, but this looked really good.

My question is once I output this and make the levels broadcast legal, how will that effect my image?

Another question: are there other adjustments I could try? Other gamma settings? If anything, I might adjust the saturation down just a bit, even though I really like the richness I presently see. It is probably too saturated.

For contractual reasons I cannot post a frame but I'd like to compare notes with anyone interested.
 
Cine D is going to have the most potential for noise, and also possibly the worst low light. You might try (if you want something kind of close to the look of cine d) Cinelike V. If you want something that is better suited for lower light situations, you might try High or B-Press Gammas.

Congrats on the results. I have been finding improving results recently too when it comes to less than optimal lighting situations.

Later,
Jason
 
Shutter: 1/24? ... What are you shooting, again? That's probably smear-city.

Also, could ya repost your settings as an entire scene-file, with each setting listed and it's setting instead of a few? I want to try this out, but want it to be exactly like yours to see what you're seeing.

Like, what's your AWB set at? Is it even on? Etc.

I also want to agree on B-Press: I've noticed it looks a lot better noise wise, to me, than any other gamma setting and I'd probably use it before Cine-V.
 
Yes, it is smeary, but not noticeable. I will post the scene file parameters tomorrow. Thanks for the interest. What I find most exciting is that in an effort to just knock down the noise I was still getting detail in a black leather jacket at night. I will try to find some frames to post.
 
Here is the scene file. The values were cobbled together from what you all have been saying in the forums.

<F6>
SCENE NAME :C_DALT
00005000: 1 ; DETAIL LEVEL: -7
00005001: 1 ; V DETAIL LEVEL: -7
00005002: 15 ; DETAIL CORING : 7
00005003: 8 ; CHROMA LEVEL: 0
00005004: 8 ; CHROMA PHASE: 0
00005005: 8 ; COLOR TEMP: 0
00005006: 9 ; MASTER PED: -7
00005007: 5 ; A.IRIS LEVEL: -3
00005008: 1 ; NEWS GAMMA: OFF
00005009: 4 ; GAMMA : B.PRESS
0000500A: 0 ; KNEE: AUTO
0000500B: 3 ; MATRIX: CINE-LIKE
0000500C: 1 ; SKIN TONE DTL : OFF
0000500D: 0 ; V DETAIL FREQ : THIN
0000500E: 1 ; OPERATION TYPE: FILM CAM
0000500F: 14 ; FRAME RATE: 24 FRAME
00005010: BE026801 ; SYNCRO SCAN :

How do I attach a movie? I have a nightime candle light scene with a person in a matt black jacket. Noise is not what I see, at least not at first. This is about a low light as you can get and it looks pretty good. But how do I attach it? It is 222 MB. Is this too large to post?
 
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You can't host it through dvxuser, but you can post a link. See miniman13 or shoot me a pm, and I will give you a username and pass that you can ftp it to my site, and I will host it for you.

Jason
 
Compress it but retain the 720 frame if you can. The Sorenson 3 codec might get it down to less than half of that or more and still retain a good amount o'detail.

Thanks for the scene-file, I'm going to try it when I get home. See what it yields with a lot more light and a 1/48th shutter.
 
You don't need to go that low on detail and so much detail coring for noise free image. Detail coring +3 and master ped -3 usually does the trick. The noise perceived is minimal on these setings- this for pal, of course.
 
sample candlelight footage 720

sample candlelight footage 720

Here you can get the candlelight sample thanks to the folks at Ramjet.

http://www.sharing.ramjetfilms.com/candlelight.mov

It's 220 MB. I kept it 720, used Motion JPEG B and made it as uncompressed as possible.

I think it does have noise, now that I have viewed it larger. But considering that it is such low light and the subject is wearing a black jacket in which you can just make out some detail, I'm pretty happy. Noisy is not the first thing you say when you see it. Jumpy maybe, but not noisy. Hey, it was cold out there and it's a doc.
 
you know actually, i think our LCD monitors are to blame for most of the "noise" we see. For example. today i was shooting a Dramafest entry for a friend, and on our Laptop, with HDrack the image looked like what we were used to. A little noisy, smeary, etc.

We then transfered the footage to a 23" Apple Monitor, and the Footage looked Immacualte!!! the noise was practially gone, and the footage just looked AMAZING.

on my laptop, it looked nice. on a Real high quality monitor, it looks VEry very good. dame with my DVX100a, the footage on the computer screen looks dark and Noisy, but on a real monitor, LCD, CRT plasma, so long as its high quality, the footage look superb.
 
My understanding is that detail coring is relative to detail level. If you have your detail level dialed all the way down, detail coring can be anything you want because it won't be doing anything.

In other words, detail coring is how you control how big a detail needs to be before detail level kicks in.

George
 
Would love to get comments on footage. Anybody with a high end monitor want to take a look? I'm viewing it on a Mac laptop and on a 23 Cinema display. I do see some grain/noise but I am greatly relieved that it looks so good because as much as I love the way this camera renders skin in bright light, I was disappointed about noise in other subjects and conditions. Based on this footage, I am now basically satisfied that noise can be dialed out of the HVX. But I'd love to get other opinions, suggestions, caveats.

This was a night time scene illuminated by a match.
 
my crappy computer crashes when i try to watch it. im running over to my laptop.

also youre looking at it on the same 23" high quality LCD monitor. I know for a fact that bad LCD monitors will make color bars look noisy. and color bars are electronically generated. I still think its because we cant afford good 5,000$ monitors. Watch the footage on a HDTV, it will probabaly look better than on your Computer.
 
GeoMar said:
My understanding is that detail coring is relative to detail level. If you have your detail level dialed all the way down, detail coring can be anything you want because it won't be doing anything.

In other words, detail coring is how you control how big a detail needs to be before detail level kicks in.
Click to expand...
That's absolutely true, and it's why the coring control is so very, very dangerous.

Yes, it will have an impact on noise level, but as a secondary effect - it's PRIMARY effect is to control the ratio of "small detail" to "big detail", and all my days as a vision engineer led me strongly to the conclusion that in that respect it should be turned down as much as possible. It's adverse effect on the picture more than outweighs the noise reduction benefits. But indeed, turn down the detail as well and it will make little difference. (Though probably lead to very soft pictures........)

The danger is that you then decide "that now looks a little soft", turn up the detail, and you're in to the world of puddingy looking faces and sharp outlines! (ie too high coring levels.) Exactly what gives "the video look" a bad name.

NO camera should NEED these sort of adjustments just to make it's noise level acceptable.
 
harddrive said:
That's absolutely true, and it's why the coring control is so very, very dangerous.

Yes, it will have an impact on noise level, but as a secondary effect - it's PRIMARY effect is to control the ratio of "small detail" to "big detail", and all my days as a vision engineer led me strongly to the conclusion that in that respect it should be turned down as much as possible. It's adverse effect on the picture more than outweighs the noise reduction benefits. But indeed, turn down the detail as well and it will make little difference. (Though probably lead to very soft pictures........)

The danger is that you then decide "that now looks a little soft", turn up the detail, and you're in to the world of puddingy looking faces and sharp outlines! (ie too high coring levels.) Exactly what gives "the video look" a bad name.

NO camera should NEED these sort of adjustments just to make it's noise level acceptable.
Click to expand...


So true !

I often use -2 detail coring with my HVX.
It is a little noisier (very little) BUT the signal (very fine detail) is there.
We're looking for max signal to noise ratio.
When we use too much detail coring ( up to +7) we lose a ton of signal (details), even if there is a small noise reduction.
IT IS A MATTER OF TASTE, NOT A REQUIREMENT.

With the HVX, if you close the filtering effect (detail coring ar -2) A LOT MORE small details will be seen.

I dont know the proper english word to describe it, but in french, i'd say that without ther filter. the image has a lot more "finesse" or "piqué".

But again, A matter of taste, not a requirement...I've seen stunning images with -2 detail coring, and stunning images with +7 detail coring.
Donr forget many HVX controls work in relation to each other.
 
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Overlook,

Dont you find your footage looks like high ISO 16mm ?

It looks very good for such a low light shot.
The grain looks good.
Doesn't look like video at all...

I'll experiment with your settings.

thanks
 
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