What tripod should I get?

I tried the DV6SB at the IBC2006 and I liked them much more than the Cartoni Focus which everyone on this forum is raving about. I have the feeling that Sachtler is not so popular since alsmost nobody mentions it. Neverthelees I will also get them. In the cataloge of Sachtler they mention the DV8SB as the best combi withe the speedlock 75CF sticks. Wonder why is that? Actually it is the way to when gearing up, start at the end and work towards the cam. This way you have the most chance of buying the most recent version of the cam whch you probably will cell anyway after a few years where as the other stuff will be used from cam to cam. So it is much better to invest more in those things than the cam (my $0.02).

Opcode said:
I ordered the DV6SB with the Speedlock 75CF sticks. I believe I saw a pic of Barry and company doing some tests using the exact same kit (the pic that looks like the camera is missing a leg). I was told that the newer SB heads are backordered and I would need to wait some weeks. I wonder if anyone else has gotten them in. Even with the wait, I bet I still end up with a set of sticks without a camera to put on top. Oh well.
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I liked the DV6 at a trade show more than the Cartoni, but the 75mm tripod didn't cut it - way too much flex. It was a deal breaker. - I got the Cartoni.

You can get a DV6 or DV8 apparently with a 100mm ball, but Sachtler's pricing doesn't allow you to mix and match unless you forego the package discount that you get when buying head & legs together, so its much more expensive that way. The dealer at the show was totally annoyed at Sachtler because we weren't the only people who would have bought it with a 100mm ball.

I don't know what the speedlock 75CF sticks are, but I do know that I have used heavier Sachtler carbon fiber sticks with these fancy single levers on each leg with video 18 and 20 heads. They suck - nobody likes them out in my world. They are slower & more of a pain than a plain ordinary standard aluminum tripod with ordinary 2 stage locks.

I'd like to see a DV8 with 100mm ball. Unfortunately I find the Cartoni (which ordinarily is fine) not heavy ehnough for my redrock with a long lens. They have a DV12 as well.
 
what do you mean by "75 mm tripod" ?
why are those single lever legs more slow? and is it important that they are fast?


Lenilenapi said:
I liked the DV6 at a trade show more than the Cartoni, but the 75mm tripod didn't cut it - way too much flex. It was a deal breaker. - I got the Cartoni.

You can get a DV6 or DV8 apparently with a 100mm ball, but Sachtler's pricing doesn't allow you to mix and match unless you forego the package discount that you get when buying head & legs together, so its much more expensive that way. The dealer at the show was totally annoyed at Sachtler because we weren't the only people who would have bought it with a 100mm ball.

I don't know what the speedlock 75CF sticks are, but I do know that I have used heavier Sachtler carbon fiber sticks with these fancy single levers on each leg with video 18 and 20 heads. They suck - nobody likes them out in my world. They are slower & more of a pain than a plain ordinary standard aluminum tripod with ordinary 2 stage locks.

I'd like to see a DV8 with 100mm ball. Unfortunately I find the Cartoni (which ordinarily is fine) not heavy ehnough for my redrock with a long lens. They have a DV12 as well.
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75mm ball instead of a 100mm ball on the Cartoni. It flexes and thus adds an unstable element.
It's hard to describe what's wrong with those legs unless you try them . The ones I've used have one lever for each leg which release both stages of the legs so that the lower one should just drop down by itself. One touch instead of laboriously raising and lowering each leg of the tripod wth a separate mechanism. Nice idea that doesn't work. The legs have too much friction to really loosen so you are stuck trying to get your foot on the bottom of each leg to hold it while you pull up from the head. Big pain in the "A". I imagine any similar system will have the same problem. I have talked to lots of professionals about these legs - we all hate them. Maybe somebody has the opposite experience.

Hope that answers your question

Lenny Levy
 
Hi all:

I just purchased the Sachtler DV-6SB with the Miller Solo DV carbon fibre legs. I hate the smaller Sachtler legs but their fluid head is by far the best for the price range. I also really like the Panther heads (tried 'em out at Abel), they are really nice but too expensive for me. I kept going to the Panther that was around the same size as the DV-6SB but it cost about $3,600.00, about twice as much as the Sachtler. The small Panther that was priced about the same as the Sachtler was not so hot, too tiny and felt so so.

Same with the O'Connor heads, I love them but they are too damned expensive and a little too heavy for trekking around the outdoors, carrying everything by yourself. I wish O'Connor would go back into the DV-6SB type of market. BTW Lenny, as far as I know, ONLY the DV-8SB is available in a 100mm ball, not the DV-6SB. Or at least here in the States.

The Miller Solo DV legs only weigh 4.25 lbs and are rated to support 44 lbs, are carbon fibre and have NO SPREADERS! I hate spreaders, they are the bane of most DPs and camera ops for video, especially when working with small, light cameras like the HVX. Sure if you have a jib or a 30lb camera setup, you need spreaders but for the HVX, I feel as if I have lucked onto the best possible tripod setup possible. Small, light, no spreaders, killer feel on the head, not too expensive ($2,250.00). I am very happy with it and would recommend it to anyone using smaller HD/HDV/DV camcorder. The shoulder strap is great and hiking around with it on my back and the camera in hand is totally do-able for those all day, outdoor, grueling shoots where I am covering a lot of ground and subjects.

I tried my very hardest to like the Cartoni Focus, I played with it again at Abel, I have done two shoots with one, I still just hate this head, it's barely better than the POS Bogen 503 I have been stuck with. I will say that it's probably the best head for the price, but it still basically is a handicap to my way of working. The pan and tilt locks feel as if they will break off and are too small, and the tilt drag is lame, you have to rotate it so much to get what a few elegant clicks on the Sachtler will do and when engaged, the tilt drag on the Focus is wet and mushy wheras the Sachtler just feels smooth and intuitive. No comparison to me.
 
I had the Sachtler dv 8 and didnt like it.

The dials would stick in the middle making the tilt jump till it locked into place.
So you have to really make certain that you got it on the number of the dial.

I was told by a friend that the Sachtler dv8 was not great and that you ahve to move up to the dv 12 to really start getting something decent.

I did look at the Cartoni Gamma and for the price around 4K it seemed really nice.
Solid sticks and the head seemed very fluid to me, anyone here use this head?

Looking for opinions, I think that to get a good head you need ot break the 4K BARRIER.
 
But if in the future want for instance the HPX500 the DV12 will not be suitable. I think you have to go higher than DV12 to be future proof or not ?


What is the difference between the DV-line and the VIDEO-line of Sachhtler heads? V20 = "Video20 PLUS" ???


grokgod said:
I had the Sachtler dv 8 and didnt like it.

The dials would stick in the middle making the tilt jump till it locked into place.
So you have to really make certain that you got it on the number of the dial.

I was told by a friend that the Sachtler dv8 was not great and that you ahve to move up to the dv 12 to really start getting something decent.

I did look at the Cartoni Gamma and for the price around 4K it seemed really nice.
Solid sticks and the head seemed very fluid to me, anyone here use this head?

Looking for opinions, I think that to get a good head you need ot break the 4K BARRIER.
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The DV line for Sachtler is the lower end Digital Video line up and as I have been told by many salemen, it is not the best that Sachtler has to offer that the video heads are far better and that around the v 20 I think he said was where the heads really was great.

the DV8 for me was horrible and the sticks were far to thin for my tastes.

I am moving up to the HPX500 or the Varicam soon and need a head that will work across this spectrum.

No I am looking at the Gamma from Cartoni and I think that for the price it is a far better Combo than what you get from Sachtler for that price.

I think that it is about 8K to get what the Cartoni gives you for 4K

Now this is obvious opinions that I have been gathering.

and I am trying to find out further information to discredit or credit this information.
 
Hi Grokgod:

If you are thinking of spending this kind of money, you owe it to yourself to rent an O'Connor. I have used the high-end Cartonis and they are just okay IMHO. I love Sachtlers and own one but if I could afford one, I would own an O'Connor. Great big old-fashioned American quality and engineering.

I was shooting on a TV series BTS at Raliegh and the rental place I rented the Varicam from gave me a Sachtler Cine 30 head. Wow, that was an amazing head, Very unlike the Video 18 I used to own, you might want to rent one of those too.

Personally, I find it insane to consider gear as expensive as you are considering without renting it and using it for a few days. I rented my current DV-6SB as well as an O'Connor and a Cartoni Focus before I bought the DV-6SB.

Good luck,

Dan
 
Hi puredrifting

Thanks very much for the information.

Youare right that I should rent before I buy it, BUT I cant find these for rental in my area, now I could drive to Hollywood and I might be able to find it.
Amazingly most places rent really bad Sachtlers.

Thanks for the advise on the Oconners, which model do you recommend and do they sell one in the 4K range?


I wish I could see that is the great thing about the Sachtler, perhaps in the high end range that your talking about they are great but I shure as hell cant find those to rent or even to look at.

I am amazed at how hard this purchase is for me.

I keep going up in price.

It seemd to me that the Cartoni Gamma was pretty good, but at this point I am not certain, some people are saying that it isnt all that and that the head is kinda mushy.

Whew , I guess its really personal taste.

thanks
 
Hi Grokgod:

Wooden Nickel in North Hollywood rents only O'Connors. I believe the cheapest currrent O'Connor sells for about $3,559.00 for the head http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...306&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

Of course, you could add just about any decent legs for this head. For legs, I would have no problem buying used. You could hit your $4,000.00 budget with some used legs. When I was in film school, we had O'Connors, they will last you your entire career with care. $4,000.00 isn't a lot if it lasts you twenty years, right?

90% of the rental houses here in Burbank will give you a Video 18 or Video 20 with the rental of a Varicam sized camera. If you rent a more cine-like package, I often get either the bigger Cine Sachtlers or a Vinten or O'Connor. Try VER in Burbank or Plus 8 Digital, they have all of this stuff we are discussing. Problem is that for $4,000.00, you will not get a cine level head, you will get a video level head anyway. I would rent an O'Connor and see what you think.

Best,

Dan
 
Hey Puredrifting

thanks for being patient and considerate with your information.

Yea, 4K is great for 20 years of service from a tripod, I would spend more but I want to get a porta dolly or a chameleon dolly also, not to mention crane and jib , you know the usual stuff, :)

I think that I will take your advise and check out the Oconner, that seems like the best in quality and price ratio.

I did have a question, is it or are there heads with a method to use stops/numbers for pans on a fluid head kinda like mechanical stops for follow focus?

Or this a stupid question?

Also what do you think are good sticks for this OConner head?

I think I would have to spend over a grand for decent sticks with speedlocks.

then again if I plan to use dolly shot or Steadicam, maybe the greatest sticks arent needed?

Thanks again!

Oh yea , the other thing is, that I am in Costa Mesa so I buy my stuff at EVS and its a hell of a drive for a rental but I guess I have no choice!>?
 
puredrifting said:
I just purchased the Sachtler DV-6SB with the Miller Solo DV carbon fibre legs. I hate the smaller Sachtler legs but their fluid head is by far the best for the price range.


The Miller Solo DV legs only weigh 4.25 lbs and are rated to support 44 lbs, are carbon fibre and have NO SPREADERS! I hate spreaders, they are the bane of most DPs and camera ops for video, especially when working with small, light cameras like the HVX. Sure if you have a jib or a 30lb camera setup, you need spreaders but for the HVX, I feel as if I have lucked onto the best possible tripod setup possible. Small, light, no spreaders, killer feel on the head, not too expensive ($2,250.00). I am very happy with it and would recommend it to anyone using smaller HD/HDV/DV camcorder.
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I did the same, for a new Canon A1, the Sachtler quality is very good, in the long run its the best investment. Coming from years ago, Sachtlers are still working best. I love the Miller Solo carbon legs, going extreme low like a baby and very high too. I tried the hyped Cartoni Focus, but find out the need for a bigger bowl is not there, the action is not that smooth compared to the 6SB.

The only thing is you need to combine, and can't have a setprice.
 
Hmm...

O'Connor is located in Costa Mesa. Maybe call them and see if they will do a secured loan on one of their loaners? I have never dealt with them so I don't know how their customer service is. Might be worth a call?

Dan
 
I cant go Bogen, for my taste and camera weight, it would never work!

I will try to contact Oconner.

My sales guy says that the 1030 will not be better than the Gamma.

He is kinda my friend so I dont think that he is lying to me.

he says sticks not as good and few other things,
also that this is oconners level entry model
 
I have long considered my tripod the most important piece of equipment. It allows me to perform smooth pans and tilts without fail, and provides solid long shots. A great tripod can make a lot of different cameras look good with beautiful moves. Here are a couple of more thoughts gained through a number of years of shooting.

Carbon fiber legs are, I believe, pound-for-pound more solid that aluminium. The down side is the higer cost, as well as the carbon fibre has a problem with de-laminating. I have had to replace a couple of stages over the years.

I like the quick-lock function of locking the legs. I was interested in converting to that type of lock for my Sachtler, which has twist locks. Our dealer talked me out of it. His comments were although the quick-lock works fine new, there is no way to tighten it up in the field as the lock becomes slack over time. The twist lock does not have this problem. Over time, you simply tighten the twist a little more.

Although the ground spreader is not the best solution for all positions, it does have the advantage of helping the tripod and camera stay in one position. In high wind, or in the back of a pick-up or with a teleprompter or jib mounted, a few sandbags on the spreader helps greatly to stabilize the entire rig.

I have never regreated "buying up", but I have "buying down". I have never felt bad because the tool I bought performed too well!

I would look to the used market, as several others have suggested, to purchase a higher performing tripod. As well, as suggested before, renting is a great was to determine if a particular tripod is for you. Many rental houses who sell gear will off-set the purchase price by a portion of the rental.
 
strange said:
I have long considered my tripod the most important piece of equipment. It allows me to perform smooth pans and tilts without fail, and provides solid long shots. A great tripod can make a lot of different cameras look good with beautiful moves. Here are a couple of more thoughts gained through a number of years of shooting.
Click to expand...
I totally second that! Several months ago, I put my two cents in on my Cartoni/Miller combination. For an HVX200 its just an outstanding combination and it has already paid for itself several times over since.

Here's a link just for reference: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=66271

The carbon legs are especially helpful and we have used this setup in all kinds of nasty places.

:beer:
 
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