A scene from SHORT FILM (rough cut)
- Thread starter FilmBoy77
- Start date
You've got good feedback and I echo many of the opinions. I agree with some of aurantaurants take. Sometimes you have to push or cajole a performance out of an actor.
Another approach to getting a performance from an actor is to suggest an obstacle. Instead of telling an actor to "be something" (be mad, or be happy, be serious, be funny) they can only be themselves. For instance if you were to tell someone to be depressed or upset they might start to look within their own head to intellectualize and try to be like someone who's depressed. The goal is to get them out of their own head and INTO the moment.
You want him to be depressed, try having him look and engage with the other actor - tell him he has to look the other actor in the eyes and admit that he's failed to do something (this is just sub-text or something that's he's thinking NOT saying, he still has to deliver the lines of the script). How depressed do you want him - you raise the stakes of what "something" is.
Something could be "He has to tell the other actor that he's fired".
Or that He's delivering the news that the other actors Mother has died".
These choices would (or should) change how the actor "feels" in the moment and that is your job (when it's needed) as the Director.
Another approach to getting a performance from an actor is to suggest an obstacle. Instead of telling an actor to "be something" (be mad, or be happy, be serious, be funny) they can only be themselves. For instance if you were to tell someone to be depressed or upset they might start to look within their own head to intellectualize and try to be like someone who's depressed. The goal is to get them out of their own head and INTO the moment.
You want him to be depressed, try having him look and engage with the other actor - tell him he has to look the other actor in the eyes and admit that he's failed to do something (this is just sub-text or something that's he's thinking NOT saying, he still has to deliver the lines of the script). How depressed do you want him - you raise the stakes of what "something" is.
Something could be "He has to tell the other actor that he's fired".
Or that He's delivering the news that the other actors Mother has died".
These choices would (or should) change how the actor "feels" in the moment and that is your job (when it's needed) as the Director.
aurantaurant
Well-known member
you're essentially blending the audio from cut to cut. Overlapping the audio between cuts so the ambient buzz and location sound are consistent throughout. It makes for a smoother transition between cuts.
And then make sure to get some ominous background music.
And also one more thing to add... the killer of it all is the exposition. And to clarify what exposition is... it's when you're characters are revealing things verbally... For instance when the lawyer is talking about the guys rap sheet... he wouldn't normally vocalize that because both characters would already know the information. His only reason to be saying what's on the rap sheet is for the purpose of the audience and that is fake. So try to convey the rap sheet in a different way.
The old adage... show, don't tell...
And then make sure to get some ominous background music.
And also one more thing to add... the killer of it all is the exposition. And to clarify what exposition is... it's when you're characters are revealing things verbally... For instance when the lawyer is talking about the guys rap sheet... he wouldn't normally vocalize that because both characters would already know the information. His only reason to be saying what's on the rap sheet is for the purpose of the audience and that is fake. So try to convey the rap sheet in a different way.
The old adage... show, don't tell...
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ozduc
Well-known member
ADR = "Automated Dialogue Replacement" or "looping". A term which stems from the early days of film when a loop of the magnetic sound track was played along side the film, over and over for the actors so they could continuously re-record the line of dialogue until they did a take the director was happy with.
After supervising hundreds of hours of ADR and dialogue editorial for network and cable TV shows and movies, I have to disagree with a lot of the comments here about your sound. The fact that you stated this is a rough cut, says it is not by any means a mixed sound track. I have dealt with a lot worse when it comes to raw production sound. So with some good dialogue editing, EQ, noise reduction (cedar DNS1000 or Dolby Cat43), added backgrounds and good mixing, that recording could quite easily stand up there with the rest.
Dialogue editing would be the first step, which among other things, involves smoothing out the cuts. ie. adding "handles" to each side of the cut to make the transitions seemless. Someone mentioned "L cuts" however it is not reallly an L cut, it is more like adding a second or so of "ambience" from Cut "A" to the end of that clip and fading out while at the same time adding a second or so of "ambience" from cut "B" to the head of that clip and fading in. That way the different room tones that are so evident right now will blend together better on your cuts and not be such an abrupt transission. You will need to checkerboard your audio tracks to do this.
As for the lighting, as others have said, you seem to be exposing more for the outside background than for the talent. Also consider throwing a few praticals in the bar area in the background to give more depth. There has also been some good suggestions for composition and turning your set 90 degrees as well.
As for the acting, Ritchie is a bit stiff but he maybe salvagable with some good direction. If not it's back to the casting director, which is probably you. Maybe something you could try to add a bit of movement for him would be to let him walk over to the window when he stands up, instead of having him sit right back down. That would also give you a couple of different angles to shoot from as well to break it up a bit. Also dont forget about reaction shots. I missed seeing Ritchie's reaction when the lawyer talks about a cell mate sticking him with a shank and him thinking about his fiancee's tight little ass. Sometimes it's more important to see the person that's not talking.
Alll in all I think it's not too bad for your first effort.
After supervising hundreds of hours of ADR and dialogue editorial for network and cable TV shows and movies, I have to disagree with a lot of the comments here about your sound. The fact that you stated this is a rough cut, says it is not by any means a mixed sound track. I have dealt with a lot worse when it comes to raw production sound. So with some good dialogue editing, EQ, noise reduction (cedar DNS1000 or Dolby Cat43), added backgrounds and good mixing, that recording could quite easily stand up there with the rest.
Dialogue editing would be the first step, which among other things, involves smoothing out the cuts. ie. adding "handles" to each side of the cut to make the transitions seemless. Someone mentioned "L cuts" however it is not reallly an L cut, it is more like adding a second or so of "ambience" from Cut "A" to the end of that clip and fading out while at the same time adding a second or so of "ambience" from cut "B" to the head of that clip and fading in. That way the different room tones that are so evident right now will blend together better on your cuts and not be such an abrupt transission. You will need to checkerboard your audio tracks to do this.
As for the lighting, as others have said, you seem to be exposing more for the outside background than for the talent. Also consider throwing a few praticals in the bar area in the background to give more depth. There has also been some good suggestions for composition and turning your set 90 degrees as well.
As for the acting, Ritchie is a bit stiff but he maybe salvagable with some good direction. If not it's back to the casting director, which is probably you. Maybe something you could try to add a bit of movement for him would be to let him walk over to the window when he stands up, instead of having him sit right back down. That would also give you a couple of different angles to shoot from as well to break it up a bit. Also dont forget about reaction shots. I missed seeing Ritchie's reaction when the lawyer talks about a cell mate sticking him with a shank and him thinking about his fiancee's tight little ass. Sometimes it's more important to see the person that's not talking.
Alll in all I think it's not too bad for your first effort.
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androoow said:
Great video on the rule of thirds.
A little more advanced on shot composition. On the over the shoulder on the Lawyer the red martini dominates the shot and draws the eye away from the actor. It's placement dead center and color (red) does that. It also just sits there completely full and screams set dressing. An empty martini glass with a few olives in it off to the side will say more for the character and be less distracting.
Also having the actor smoke an endless cigarette seems a bit off. If you want him to smoke, have him light one as the stakes begin to raise and have it be a positive choice (only in the acting sense) he makes under stress.
If you really need to use this actor, the basics begin by having the actor concentrate on the other actor. He should be listening and reacting. You get the sense from his performance that he is waiting for the empty space to say his lines at one point nonchalantly taking a drink during wha should be a freak out moment. I also agree with having him dial it down artificially if all else fails. Less is more on film/HVX.
It's brave to show your work so I applaud you for it, I am learning quite a bit from some of the other posts so thanks. I am sure you will apply all of the posts to your advantage. I look forward to seeing the re shoot and I bet it is going to be good stuff.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Filmboy77
Yes the Audio sucks
-
Do not let anyone tell you that 'no zooming in' is it. A recent thread reminds me that films like Munich and The Departed have zooms
It has every place in your mis-en-scene
You need to simply learn
Take that effin camera off the Tripod
Lower it
Raise it
Go overhead
Shoot the scene from outside the room
Shoot from outside the house itself looking in through the windows
Shoot fom below the eyeline (My favorite)
Shooot from the perspective of the 3rd seat at the table
keep shooting
-
Yes the Audio sucks
-
Do not let anyone tell you that 'no zooming in' is it. A recent thread reminds me that films like Munich and The Departed have zooms
It has every place in your mis-en-scene
You need to simply learn
Take that effin camera off the Tripod
Lower it
Raise it
Go overhead
Shoot the scene from outside the room
Shoot from outside the house itself looking in through the windows
Shoot fom below the eyeline (My favorite)
Shooot from the perspective of the 3rd seat at the table
keep shooting
-
Schmovies production
Well-known member
Those are tips, Hudson.
Filmboy, you are getting there.
Filmboy, you are getting there.
ShamrockFilms
Well-known member
Yeah, shoot in the back of the restaraunt with over head lighting. Get rid of the white shirt on the attorney.. Give him some character! He's a "shady" attorney. Put him in a jazzy shirt matching the color of the martini glass. I'd slip a diamond pinky ring on him as well. You don't want that guy to "look" like an attorney at all, that's what's cool about him! Like the other guy is thinking "this guy's my attorney?!" I'd also re-wardrobe the client as well. Put him in checkered golfer type shirt matching the color scheme of the scene, "some reds" matching the attorney and the martini glass. I won't comment on the audio as you heard it already. The camera angles were pretty bad. Here's how to fix that. WATCH THE SOPRANOS. There's tons of "two people at a table" scenes. Use every angle they use, exactly as they use them. They always start off with a wide establishing shot with the camera at the height of the table. Then from there it's over the shoulders and close ups. Get the camera moving "slightly" durning every shot, but not the close ups. The client character sounds like he's reading off the script and trying too hard to act. What I'd do is have the attorney do his lines as they are, and allow the client to adlib the hell out of his lines. Give one of the characters something to remember him by! Try something like... Every time the client moves something out of place on the table, you could have the attorney take notice of it and put it back into place, like he has OCD. Good luck!!!!!
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mainstreetprod
Veteran
FilmBoy77 said:
No need to invest a lot in a dolly, go to the DIY section and there are plenty of ideas. 20 bucks in PVC pipe, a 2x 2 piece of plywood, two pieces of angle steel
and a few skateboard wheels, and you are there. Or a thrift store wheelchair!
Sound: Boom poles are great, but they get the mic up near those noisy AC vents. Turn off the air (or heat) ! You could also conceal a couple of lavs on the guys if you have em and get great sound. But they have to be good ones.
Lighting: Maybe my monitor is dark, but I saw no signs of extra lighting.
Lots of good advice here, follow it! If you have no lighting, go to the hardware and get a clip on reflector and load up a 250 flood bulb (indoor
soft type). Hang it above these guys and you'll at least get them visible.
El Mariachi was lit with two of these.
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Billy Pilgrim
Stye in my eye
Perhaps you're asking for a critique on the technical aspects, but I think you should put much more focus into the characters and performances if you want to make a good film. Forget cinematic lighting and conventional angles and methods of shooting. Forget about which mic you need to use or how you have to use it. It's a crutch, just a crutch. It doesn't make the film. I didn't think the audio was that bad. I could hear what they were saying, which is plenty for me. I've been studying John Cassavetes' work as a director, and reading Cassavetes on Cassavetes (which I highly recommend) and most of his films, byt today and yesterday's standards, were "crappy" on a technical level. They were rough, looked like crap and sounded like it too, but they're works of genius. And the acting is consistently outstanding in all his films. Shadows is the worst offender with the sound and pictutre, etc, but it's a great film. You just have to decide what kind of films you really want to make. If you want to make hollywood films with syd field plot contrivances and one-dimensional characters, I'd say yes, work on your lighting and sound, etc. If you want to make good films about people, that mean something, then fudge it, make those films, and don't listen to anyone. Just do it your way. That's a far better way to learn how to make films. Sorry, I'll stop my pretentious film rant.
jlabonney
Member
Billy Pilgrim said:
In filmmaking, there are tons of things deal with: lighting, sound, screen composition, framerates, music, graphics, acting and performances, editing, scriptwriting, etc etc etc, I haven't even scratched the surface.
I'm certainly no Cassavettes authority, but he seemed to me to be a guy that made a film because he 'had' to make it. The technical aspects that persons on this forum are used to noticing were of less importance then getting the story out and on film.
But I can't say that I'd agree that you shouldn't worry about these things, I think that you just shouldn't let inexperience or fear stop you from making films. Keep on shooting and learning. Learn and use those technical aspects not just to make your project look and feel more professional (if that's what you're after), but to help get your story and emotions across.