HVX200 in a PAL country+more...

G

Gompa1985

Member
Hi everyone! Long time reader of this forum, I was hooked when the first impressive videos of the DVX100 came up. Now, It's time for me to invest in new equipment, with the HVX200 in mind. The thing is that Im from Sweden, (and no I can't go to IKEA and buy a HVX200 :D ) and because we got so few (and expensive) HVX200 dealers here, Im thinking of buying one from the US instead. The problem is the difference between NTSC and PAL. We got the PAL system, but how will an NTSC HVX adapt to PAL standards?

Since the shooting takes place on a digital medium, shouldnt It be easy to convert back and fourth, from NTSC to PAL?
And how will It affect the usage of Plasma and LCD TV:s? Must I import TV's from US to get It to work properly with the HVX200?

Im mostly going to shoot shorts and features for the american and international market, but occasionally I might want to do some commercials, and then the convertion thing is very important.

On a side note, does anyone now of a good HVX200 dealer in New York?

p.s.
That's a lot of questions, beut I also have to ask. How is the HVX200 handling in festival enviroments? Like digital projection or 35mm blowup, does It get
unwatchable, or does It live up to the standards? (16mm maybe)

That's all for now. I'll be happy to hear from all of you HVX200 experts =).
 
Hey man,

good task to get a good price in europe, we mostly feel ripped of, but hey, quality of life is not bad over here...!

If you do a lot in NTSC for the states, it would be a good idea to get a NTSC model, otherwise i would always vote for a pal-model..!(you can also order a pal cam in the states, of course its cheaper then here..!)

I would recommend you to check b&h photo for a NY dealer, make sure they got them in stock when you fly over..!

You can choose if you do it the cheese way(just putting the cam in your lugage and flying back to sweden), or if you wanna announce it when you come back home, then you gotta pay tax for it..!

If you do mostly NTSC and just few times Pal, then record 24p and convert to 25frames, people do this the other way around when they do a blowup and have recorded on 25 frames dv etc.

Dont know about festivals and blowups, some people did tests, but ive never seen much personally.

If you got a good lightning and skillfull DP it should be fine, even for blow up..keep in mind that you can record 1080p, that shouldnt be that bad when blewn up....and maybe you wanna consider a 35mm adapter for that, you can find plenty threads here...so good luck!
 
Hi Gompa, bhphotovideo is selling the HVX200E $700 higher than the US version.
Not bad - compared to the pricing in the european region.
 
Don't even go there - you'll lose a heap of quality if you convert NTSC to PAL (not so bad the other way around).

And don't kid yourself you're saving money if you buy a PAL version from the US - Panasonic backup is via their dealers - do you fancy shipping your faulty HVX (should it go wrong) back to the US for warranty repair?

You could well be liable for import duty too - I know we are in the UK.

Just go buy one from your nearest reputable dealer - it will be one of the best deals you ever did (fabulous camera).

Good luck

Andy
 
Hi Gompa, another Swede here!

I agree prices are really high in Europe. - When I first bought my DVX100E (original non-A version) I ended up importing it myself from Expandore (www.expandore.com (or .biz)). That saved me, if I remember correctly, 17 000 SEK compared to buying it locally in Sweden.
Now I just bought myself a nice new HVX200E, and with local prices around 50 000 SEK + VAT I never hesitated to import again. This time from globalmediapro.com. Price in SEK: 34 500! You will of course have to pay import duties (one or two percent?) and regular VAT on that, but it will still save you alot.

Both Expandore and Globalmediapro are nice to do business with and both offers the same camera versions sold locally. Globalmediapro even have their own swedish Plusgiro account to which you pay them in SEK, so it's VERY easy! As of today a HVX200E is 34.400 SEK from them. Regarding service and warranty, I've even had my DVX100 sent in for service to Expandore, which was all covered by them and that they handled very well.

If you have any further questions feel free to ask!

Good luck!

/
Johan
 
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...and as Andy pointed out above, don't even bother with NTSC. Buy PAL version and save yourself alot of headache! :)
 
Thank you all for your opinions. I just love this forum!

I was actually going with hvx_germanboy's way of taking the HVX home in the luggage, avoiding taxes and stuff. But I'll think I have changed my mind.

Johan, thanks for the information on how to easy import HVX200E from globalmediapro.com . That seems like the best way to go.
I can't thank you enough. I entered your website to see some footage,
but I guess you have been to buisy filming :smile: .


I have slated a short for production this year, and Im going to send It to a few US festivals... how's the convertion from PAL to NTSC?
I hope Im not running into a lot of problems shooting PAL for the US market....

Oh, one other thing. How does the PAL version work with all the popular mini35 adapters out there?

Hope to hear from you soon.
 
Johan_Lundberg said:
This time from globalmediapro.com. Price in SEK: 34 500! You will of course have to pay import duties (one or two percent?) and regular VAT on that, but it will still save you alot.
Click to expand...

Check that out with your local customs. You pay: transport, assurance, customer fee, import duties (like 10%) and over that all combined: VAT. Import fee is for sure more than one or two percent. If there is something wrong, you need to send it back. That costs you.
 
xray said:
Check that out with your local customs. You pay: transport, assurance, customer fee, import duties (like 10%) and over that all combined: VAT. Import fee is for sure more than one or two percent. If there is something wrong, you need to send it back. That costs you.
Click to expand...

My bad, I just checked my receipt from the toll. Import duty was like 4-5 percent, at least back then when I imported the DVX. But this was a few years back so please contact them to verify what it is as of today. Then of course, (as I stated before) they will add regular VAT, but that's nothing extra due to import. Local companies add the exact same VAT, and if you buy it on a company, the VAT will be returned to you anyway. Finally we have have shipping and insurance, but that's also a very obvious thing when ordering from a non-local shop, and that's a cost you see before placing the order, so there shouldn't be any surprises there.

The only drawback really is if you have to send it in for warranty covered service, since you will have to pay a higher price for shipping than you would locally. Non-warranty repairs can of course be done locally by any certified Panasonic repair center.

Do a small calculation based on all costs and then decide if it's worth it for you!
 
I think you should also bear in mind, goodwill.

If my camera needs repair, my local dealer will LEND me another camera until mine gets back. What price do you put on that?

He knows me because I use him regularly.

When I changed to Panasonic from Sony he offered to loan me an HDV deck if I ever need to access my HDV tapes again. What price would you put on that?

I've had heaps of excellent advice from my dealer - somehow he has to be paid for the time he takes advising me - and many others.

I'd rather pay a premium and get full backup, than meddle with saving a bit of cash - but it's up to you.

Andy
 
Yes. Good relationship with your local dealer is priceless. To hold and fit equipment in your hands is useful, but I can understand that buying -from a picture- on the internet seems logic if you only look at the price. Keep in mind that by import (in the Netherlands) you pay also a fee to the customs for the handling.

So its product price+ transport+ insurance+ custom fee+ import duty= +VAT.
No National warranty, no possibility to try out, no relationship with the dealer.
 
Im going to check everything with the swedish custom today.
The best thing is always to buy locally with full service. The thing is that
Im living in the countryside, and if I break the HVX, I still have to send it somewhere. I doubt that there is a HVX repairman in sweden, so the dealer
probably will send the HVX for repair somewhere else.

Well, I have to figure out the numbers and see if its worth It. But It's almost 50% more expensive in sweden anyway...

Anyone who knows how the mini35 adapters will work with the PAL model?

I'll be back.
 
hi Gompa,
You live in the EU, so you do not pay import tax if you buy in a country like Germany. Remember living in the EU is free traffic for goods and persons. Try to buy within the EU that is way better, if you are VAT related -you have a business- you can receive goods and pay local VAT. If you are private you pay VAT in the country that is sending the goods. Germany is 19% VAT since 1 january.
 
If you fing a good deal within the EU that's great, it will be alot easier since you don't have to care about customs at all, however I think the problem is that the camera is priced very high everywhere in EU.

Regarding the extra service you can get if buying from a really good local company I can only agree. That sure is worth something, and also makes you feel safe. If this was a question of a few thousand SEK (or a few hundred dollars), then I would definately buy locally. But when it (including exta costs) comes to thousands of dollars in difference between buying locally and importing it's not such a no-brainer anymore. Heck, that difference can even buy you a pair of 8gb P2 cards!
 
I haven't used any mini35 adaptors, but I find it hard to believe there should be any big difference from using it with the NTSC model.
 
Gompa1985 said:
The thing is that Im living in the countryside, and if I break the HVX, I still have to send it somewhere.
Click to expand...
Me too - it's nearly an hour's drive to my LOCAL dealer!
All the more reason to befriend that local dealer so he'll help you out with a replacement when (if) your camera has to go for repair.

Anyone who knows how the mini35 adapters will work with the PAL model?
Click to expand...
Yes - of course they will. This is optics you're talking about here - there's no difference between PAL and NTSC optics-wise.

But why on earth all you guys are hell-bent on spending all this hard-earned money to attach strange lenses to your cameras, making them virtually unusable, completely defeats me.

You're trying to achieve something (shallow depth of field) the camera's perfectly capable of doing anyway, if only you'd learn about photography!

So here you are - breaking your heart over a few bucks because you see the guys in the US getting something cheaper than you can at home - yet you're willing to throw a fistful of money down the pan because there's a craze on fitting 35mm lenses to camcorders.

Have you studied any footage shot with these "mini35 adapters"?
I'd be interested to see some that's really worth looking at.

(I think I need to go and lie down somewhere quiet).

Andy
 
Hey, calm down Andy. I was only curious if the mini35 was compatible or not. And trust me, it's not only a couple of bucks that makes the difference, then I wouldn't ask you guys for help in the first place.

I have worked out a solution thats going to be perfectly fine. My company is going to order the camera, and then I get the 25% VAT back in a month or two.

Johan, thank you for your help once again. Some people think that Im moaning over a few hundred bucks. But this is thousands of dollars at stake.

I do want to belive that we have the same service as in the US, but I doubt that the retailers in Sweden would lend me a new HVX if I broke mine.
And that wouldt be worth thousends of dollars, because It's cheaper to rent
a HVX camera in a case of emergency.

With that said, thank you all for your opinions. Wish me luck.


Gompa1985
 
Gompa1985 said:
Hey, calm down Andy
Click to expand...
I'm calm - I'm CALM !

But seriously, I wish you well.
If you've really done your homework and it's going to save you a lot of money, then I hope it goes well for you.

Reading your original post again, if you are doing work predominantly for the US market, then it may be best to re-think whether to get PAL or NTSC (50 or 60 Hz). When I said NTSC doesn't convert well to PAL, I was thinking of SD - but if you're shooting HD (if that's what your clients want) the situation may well be different and I'm new to DVCPRO HD so I can't help you there.

What gets me a little irate is this fad for throwing money at 35mm conversions.
In two years time it will be a distant memory, believe me.

Good luck with your purchase - and don't forget to let us know how it works out for you.

Andy
 
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I've heard that It is a lot easier to convert from PAL to NTSC?
My short films and maybe features (HD 1080i 25p SWEET!). Will be aimed at international markets or filmfestivals outside of Sweden (US maybe).
But if a company here in Sweden needs a commercial or a video demonstrating a product, It'll be a lot easier and better quality wise with PAL.

The question is if you'll need to convert 25p to 24p for the US market?

Thanks again for your opinions on the subject.
 
Gompa1985 said:
The question is if you'll need to convert 25p to 24p for the US market?
Click to expand...
I really think you should start a new post for this - it's really important and you need to sort it out before you buy.

PAL is normally 25 fps - NTSC is 30 so it's possible (and I stress the word possible - because I don't know) it might be wiser to shoot in NTSC.

I have a suspicion pixel dimensions come into it - but check that out.

Andy
 
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