35mm Adapter Final Questions

thefilmaddict

thefilmaddict

Veteran
I'm very close to buying a 35mm adapter for my HVX200.

I think that the HVX200 stock lens is great, but I think that shallow depth of field would help with the new dramatic short film I am working on. Keeping the subject sharp and the background and foreground soft, will help center the viewers attention to the story.

I think that the Brevis is the way to go because it is fast to set up and seems to give great results (is that true?).

Here's why I'm still on the fence:

1. The latest Brevis sample footage looks great, but I wonder how the image holds up when watching it on a 50 inch HDTV (at full resolution)? H264 Web files look great because the image is smaller (add to that high contrast and high chroma and the images pop), but how does the footage look in HD? Sticking a lens in front of a lens has to increase noise and lower resolution, right? I just want to know from all of you who have taken the 35mm adapter plunge, does the image hold up in native HD? Does stock lens HVX200 footage cut with 35mm adapter footage?

If you guys help convince me to buy the Brevis, what type of lens should I buy (brand and mm)? I'm willing to spend up to $350 on a 35mm slr lens. Will that be enough to get a decent image?

Also, what other equipment should I buy with the Brevis (must have add ons)? I don't have rails or anything.

Thanks for all of your help!
 
I also wanted to ask...

People seem to be really into the 35mm adapter look. Why don't the big manufactures build stock lenses with the cameras that give the same shallow depth of field look? It seems odd that only 3rd party companies build these adapters and the only solution is putting a lens in front of a lens.
 
in response to your lens question, you will more than likely want to buy more than one lens. Most of the zooms out there are pretty slow and you will have to flood your interiors with light to use them. outdoors during the day they will be fine. Most people buy a set of primes wide angle 28mm/35mm, normal 50mm, tele 85mm/100mm. you can get some used nikon/cannon primes pretty cheap. just make sure you get them all lower than f2.8. preferably less than or equal to f1.8. you need to make your lens manufacturer decision before you order your adapter.

with the brevis i don 't think rails are required unless you are using a large lens, but i would be safe and get one anyway. i'm pretty sure dennis is working on a rail system too. you could get it straight from him.

also, people are using small hd monitors to judge focus properly.

you might also want to consider a follow focus and a matte box.
 
Regarding DoF, this depends on image scale, a bigger scale gives shallower DoF, hence the tiny 1/3" sensors of an HVX will give much deeper DoF than 35mm. The adaptor gives the 35mm"look" by imaging onto a 35mm size ground glass, and then imaging that onto the 1/3" sensors.
Regarding lenses, old manual focus types are best, with Nikons being the favorite affordable lenses. Canon FDs are also very good, but need a fiddle to get the apperture ring to work when not on a camera.
Avoid todays auto lenses like the plague, they are cheap, plasticky things with short focus scales (If at all). Zooms should also be avoided if possible.

Regards, Dave
 
daveswan said:
Regarding lenses, old manual focus types are best, with Nikons being the favorite affordable lenses. Canon FDs are also very good, but need a fiddle to get the apperture ring to work when not on a camera.
Click to expand...

i was just coming back to talk about this.
unless you are also going to use the lenses on a still camera you don't need all the fancy electronics on your lens, so why pay for them.
 
How does the ZF (Nikon) Zeiss lenses (not cheap!) compare to Nikon ones?
I plan starting with a Brevis plus one normal
50mm Zeiss, and second-hand wide angle 28mm/35mm and tele 85mm/100mm Nikon's.

I saw that Zacuto is announcing an upcoming DOF adapter with no moving parts, associated with Zeiss lenses.
Said to be revolutionary, what do you think?

Then my upgrade path would be to buy another Zeiss lens, then considering a Zacuto "breakthrough" DOF adapter.
 
Great info guys. Would anyone like to comment on the resolution loss (if it's a big deal when watching full resolution footage on a HDTV)?

My final project will be viewed in HD, not down converted to SD, so the HD image has to still look good.

Will I get that ONCE YOU GET A 35MM ADAPTER, YOU'LL WISH YOU ALWAYS HAD ONE feeling?
 
thefilmaddict said:
I also wanted to ask...

People seem to be really into the 35mm adapter look. Why don't the big manufactures build stock lenses with the cameras that give the same shallow depth of field look? It seems odd that only 3rd party companies build these adapters and the only solution is putting a lens in front of a lens.
Click to expand...

I've had a similar question. With the proliferation of adapters out there, I would imagine one of the camera manufacturers would start building their own. I've been fantasizing recently of a next-generation HVX that has a 35mm adapter built into the body. I love the results, but the currently available adapters are just so bulky!
 
As for the resolution, you do lose a bit, but it's minor. I'm generally getting that sharpness back by bringing up the detail settings in camera (+4 seems to do it).

At the first LA HVX user group meeting, we were able to plug our P2 cards directly into a camera that ran composite out to an HD projector where we all got to see our work on a 14-foot screen. It looked SWEET! And I don't remember anyone saying that my M2 footage looked less sharp than the straight HVX footage.

In November, I shot a feature with the HVX/M2, and the other night at the editor's house, I was blown away with how good the stuff looked running out of his Decklink card to an HD monitor. He works with a lot of Varicam footage, and he was knocked out by the imagery.

As for lenses, I tell everyone to get the old manual Nikon lenses and get the fastest lenses you can -- nothing below f2 (this is because of the light loss on the M2. I don't know about light loss on the Brevis). I think a 24mm or 35mm on the wide end would be a nessessity. Then, get a 50mm and an 85mm or 100mm. Good luck. I don't think you'll be sorry.
 
This thread suddenly reminded me of something I read that Jan wrote awhile back.

Here, I dug it up:

Jan_Crittenden said:
. . . Frankly since you will be adding more glass to the front of your camera and I think the only solution is and it is a necessary one, to purchase the Marshall and turn it upside down. I think that trying to focus all of that glass on a small screen is asking for trouble,

My .02,

Jan
Click to expand...

This, I believe, can be interpreted in one of two ways (I altered what is in the brackets for clarification of my interpretations):

1. Jan is saying that, in her opinion, it is "asking for trouble" to add a 35mm lens adapter to the HVX as the camera must record an image that is focused on a small screen. I.e. "trying to focus all of that [front end glass imagery] on [to the adapter's] small screen is asking for trouble . . ." Why would it be trouble? I do not know.

or

2. Jan is saying that, in her opinion, it is troublesome to try to focus an HVX equipped with a 35mm lens adapter by relying soley on the camera's LCD. Therefore, she recommends getting the Marshall and turning it upside down. I.e. "trying to focus all of that glass [with the aid of the] small [LCD] screen is asking for trouble . . ."


I personally think she meant the latter (number 2).
 
the lens I would start with would be a sigma 20mm f1.8 this lens is killer and cheap (like 350-400 on ebay) and gives you a nice wide prime, then get a 50mm nikon f1.4 (like 50 on ebay), and a 85mm f1.8 (350 on ebay) (or a 80-200 either or) and your set, oh and buy that HD marshall monitor (you'll need it), and a follow focus (you'll need that too), and a shoulder mount (for quicker setups). lol. or you could plop down 1000.00 for a red ticket and wait (I saw the footage and I don't have the money but I'm considdering just selling one kidney to get it, who needs two right?). As for the intercutting of stock/adapter footage in post, forget about it. The two looks are very, very different for me day and night, the DOF even of my M2/20mm combo as compaired to my stock HVX lens wide is very, very different (depending on the Fstop of the 20mm of course because after you stop down to a certain point it is all in focus any way and even saying that the "look" is just different, I mean a dork like me would notice it because I look at my work over and over). Sorry for the rant, hope that helps-Adam
 
It is a bit frustrating to sink more money into a camera with what the RED camera promises to do in the future, but even with all of the 35mm adapter equipment (rods, focus, lens, etc...), the RED camera is still out of my league (unless my math is wrong).

QUICK POLL:

If you own a 35mm adapter, please post which one you own and if you think that it's worth every penny of the extra cost. If you thought that your money was wasted, please tell us why.

THANKS!!!
 
Anyone want to answer this...

QUICK POLL:

If you own a 35mm adapter, please post which one you own and if you think that it's worth every penny of the extra cost.

THANKS!!!
 
thefilmaddict said:
Great info guys. Would anyone like to comment on the resolution loss (if it's a big deal when watching full resolution footage on a HDTV)?

My final project will be viewed in HD, not down converted to SD, so the HD image has to still look good.
Click to expand...

What format do you plan on using for HDTV viewing?
 
One or two things to think about. If you can get away with slower lenses, do. They will be cheaper, lighter and probably better corrected. 35mm stills lenses are usualy optimised for f/4-f/8, so wide open they will have poor performance. Very fast lenses tend to be photojounalist specials, where getting any picture is more important than top quality. Also as you move away from 50mm costs for fast lenses from Nikon / Canon go though the roof, 28mm f/2.8, not bad £60-70 or so 28/1.4, sky high, even s/h. 300f/5.6 cheap, 300mm f/4 £400? s/h, 300/2.8 ouch! And if your going the 35 mm rout I see little point in going downmarket, stick to Nikon / Canon / Zeiss etc.

Dave
 
The better lenses don’t have as much of a difference in performance wide open as the cheap ones. I don’t recommend sigma. I have watch brevis footage on a 34" HDTV and it looks great. If you have to get one lens i recommend the best 50mm u can get. Plus remember as a general rule (not always the case) if u get the Nikon 50mm 1.2 it will be sharper than the 50mm 1.4 at 2.8.

(Exception) if have heard the Nikon 50mm 1.8 is a great lens. Better then the 1.4.
 
What I've heard so far...

No one has said that they were unhappy with purchasing a 35mm adapter. Please chime in if you have any regrets.

Resolution will suffer with the adapter, but increasing the detail to plus 4 will solve this problem.

Some have said that mixing adapter footage with stock lens footage is fine, while others have said that they would never mix the two (the difference is night and day). Anyone else want to comment on that?

Many have recommended buying several lenses (24, 35, 50, 85, 100). I wish that I had a rich uncle!

If I buy just one lens now, invest in a good 50mm OR a wider 28 or 35mm.

Don't buy zoom lenses (they are slow) and won't work for interior shots.

Get a lens that is f2 or faster.

By old lenses with manual controls.

Nikon lenses are the best bang for the buck and I will pay around $350.00 for a decent one.

As far as buying additional equipment, it sounds like I need:

Rods (WILL I NEED RODS WITH A 50MM LENS ON THE BREVIS?)

Follow Focus (CAN I GET AWAY WITH NOT BUYING THIS OR WILL EVERYTIME I ADJUST FOCUS, THE CAMERA WILL TAKE A HIT/BUMP AND MY FOOTAGE WILL SHOW IT?)

A Marshall monitor to invert the image and check focus (I ALREADY OWN THIS)

Which Brevis package do I need to buy for the HVX?

Am I missing anything?

Will I need ND filters for shooting outdoors? I heard that you can't use the HVX internal filters to stop down with the Brevis. What strength ND should I buy?

WILL WORK FOR FOOD.

------------------------------

Someone asked:
What format do you plan on using for HDTV viewing?

The final product will be viewed on a 50 inch HDTV playing out of a DVCPRO HD Deck (720p).
 
A couple more questions...

A couple more questions...

Why wouldn't a Zoom lense work indoors?

Why not reduce the aperature size instead of using an ND filter?

FYI, I have an M2 and have a Brevis on order. Thanks......
 
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