A scene from SHORT FILM (rough cut)

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FilmBoy77

Veteran
alright. here it goes. this is my first time really doing anything with my HVX or any camera for that matter. this is a rough cut from a scene out of a short film i'm working on called "The Hit"

please comment on EVERYTHING from acting, editing, lighting, composition, etc. i wrote and directed this and i am learning as i go....if it skips, press pause and wait for it to download some....

if u dog it please tell me what you would do to make it better :)

thanx in advance for your feedback!
 
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Watched a few minutes,
First impression is that the mic was awful, you'll probably want to ADR everything. If you don't have a professional sound mix with a great mic no one is going to take you seriously. You'll have to re-do that.

It seemed a tad on the dark side, image wise, I felt like I wanted to see more detail in the men's faces.
Sorry I have no idea what the plot or dialogue is .. promise I'll watch it later! Seems like a good concept.
 
The exterior light is much more powerful than the interior light. This make it out of balance., whilst the shot may not be overexposed.

If you don't have a lot of lights to add for the interior, so you can then stop down the camera iris to balance the outside, I would avoid having the exterior light source seen, as it is through the windows/glass. If the is no glass/windows behind the camera on the wide shot, you may be able to rotate the whole set/table and chair position by 90 degrees counter-clockwise, thus avoiding the windows all together, yet yielding the light it provides (shadows by camera op permitting). The alternate CU shots would also avoid the windows in the background. Maybe something for next time.

A few shots of the lawyer, taken from a lower perspective to give him a more dominant presence.

Perhaps avoid the zooming and look towards getting a dolly for narrative work.

The extract from the script you wrote seemed good to me, perhaps performance in a few parts felt a little acted.

If this is early days "doing anything with my HVX or any camera for that matter", you are on your way. I am no expert, just a few observations, not meaning to be picky, I hope they may be of assistance.
 
Matthew Bennett said:
Watched a few minutes,
First impression is that the mic was awful, you'll probably want to ADR everything. If you don't have a professional sound mix with a great mic no one is going to take you seriously. You'll have to re-do that.

It seemed a tad on the dark side, image wise, I felt like I wanted to see more detail in the men's faces.
Sorry I have no idea what the plot or dialogue is .. promise I'll watch it later! Seems like a good concept.
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cool, but what do you mean by ADR? sorry i'm slow on the acronyms, lol. on the sound, i felt like the boom mic was too far away. i had the guy hold the boom mic in the center of them both talking? should i have had him switching between the characters as they both talk?

lighting, yea i screwed myself on this because initially i was going to shoot this outdoors but when we got there it was a lot of road construction noise outside so last minute we did it inside. then i adjusted the scene file to have a blueish tint to it kind of like in the movie Traffic....not such a good idea since a majority of the colors in the club were already blue. thanks for the tips.
 
Christopher Barry said:
The exterior light is much more powerful than the interior light. This make it out of balance., whilst the shot may not be overexposed.

If you don't have a lot of lights to add for the interior, so you can then stop down the camera iris to balance the outside, I would avoid having the exterior light source seen, as it is through the windows/glass. If the is no glass/windows behind the camera on the wide shot, you may be able to rotate the whole set/table and chair position by 90 degrees counter-clockwise, thus avoiding the windows all together, yet yielding the light it provides (shadows by camera op permitting). The alternate CU shots would also avoid the windows in the background. Maybe something for next time.

A few shots of the lawyer, taken from a lower perspective to give him a more dominant presence.

Perhaps avoid the zooming and look towards getting a dolly for narrative work.

The extract from the script you wrote seemed good to me, perhaps performance in a few parts felt a little acted.

If this is early days "doing anything with my HVX or any camera for that matter", you are on your way. I am no expert, just a few observations, not meaning to be picky, I hope they may be of assistance.
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thanx man, yea i thought the outside light may be an issue. i am probably going to reshoot this scene once i finish the other scenes. i'll keep in mind what you said about giving the lawyer a lower angle shot to give the feeling of dominance. if we reshoot it i may have them meet on a park bench in daylight, so if they're sitting on a bench together side by side how would i achieve the same camera angle effect?
 
Achieve it having a wider shot with both talent (wide shot), then on CU shots of each individual, move the camera height to suit and position the camera in closer and to the side, as if the camera is more indicative of say the lawyer looking at the client, and visa versa, without actually looking into the camera lens. Height can be subtle. If height variations seem jumpy, if the edit and feel permits, cut between the wide shot so the height does not jump. You don't have to change height, perhaps get more in line with their eyes, not above the eyes, get into their head space. Just a thought.

[SIZE=+0]Camera 'blocking' is a something I am taking more notice of these days. Perhaps find a movie you like with a scene like yours, then break down the shots. See if you can practically replicate the setups, without say a dolly or crane/jib. [/SIZE]
 
I admire anyone who makes the attempt at fimmakin but since you asked for an honest critique:

The guy that plays "Ritchie" can not act. He is indicating throughout.

The sound is horrible, I don't know if you used a mic mounted on the camera but it is low and noisy. Boom or lav them .

The outside light is too bright and the interior is too low. You need to fill in the faces of the actors and ad a stronger key.

On the shot composition you have too much headroom on the close ups and cut the actors off at the neck. Also they are too centered, break the screen into thirds. I would also go closer on the over the shoulder stuff.

My suggestions to improve this at a minimum. Just one man's opinion though. Good luck.
 
Okay, here are my suggestions. Whenever you're in the wide, the scene looks hokey because it just looks like some normal apartment and these guys are talking about life and death. When you're in close, it definitely looks better.

I'd start off with a slow dolly in on the wide shot to give it a little more of a professional feel. Then when you go in to close-ups, stay there. Don't go back out. This is a scene where there's a lot of tension. We need to be in on the actor's faces. I would even consider going handheld (don't shake it a lot though - the natural shake will be enough) as this will add another element of tension. I would shift between close and very close. That would be the only two shots I'd use on both actors once the establishing shot is out of the way.

Also, you're letting the dialogue dictacte too much of the scene. We need reactions man! When the one guy says something that freaks the other guy out, we need to linger on a long reaction instead of him saying something. We'll get a better feel for the scene. I agree with someone else that the non-lawyer isn't a great actor. But you can cover that up. Don't make him talk as much. Make him react more.

Another great thing to do in a scene like this is pull a Robert Rodriquez and get a ton of cutaways! The ash-tray, the cigarette, the martini-glass. XCU on that thing as the guy lifts it and it goes to his lips. That right there can create a ton of tension. That way you're not only on these guys faces. YOu're hearing their conversation still, but you're looking at all these interesting things as it's happening. It's a great way to instantly make a scene look professional. You can give a guy a tick, even if it's as simple as his finger spazzing a quarter of an inch and just focus on that. That says a lot about a character. Go rent Once Upon A Time In Mexico and look at that first scene with Cheech and Johnny Depp. You'll get what I'm saying.

All of this will help but you need some better lighting. Dark on one side of the face, light on the other. Create a mood with that lighting.

Good luck on your next go-round. Can't wait to see it.

Best,
C.G.
 
wow thanks a lot everybody, i'm printing these comments off and highlighting notes and comments.

bosindy: thanx for your opinion
The guy that plays "Ritchie" can not act. He is indicating throughout.
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so far, i have heard this a lot. we have only did this one scene so a lot of time hasnt been wasted but do you all think this guy is that bad that i should get someone else? if so, do i jus tell em 'look man, a lot of people are saying your acting needs work' or is he workable? the lawyer takes acting classes and it shows. the main guy's background is in theater...what he told me.

On the shot composition you have too much headroom on the close ups and cut the actors off at the neck. Also they are too centered, break the screen into thirds.
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what exactly do u mean by break the screen into thirds?


c.g._eads: great advice man! coupla quick question
I'd start off with a slow dolly in on the wide shot to give it a little more of a professional feel.
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when you say dolly-in do you mean like a slow zoom in on the scene from the wide shot? or do you mean dolly in a certain direction as they're talking?

Go rent Once Upon A Time In Mexico and look at that first scene with Cheech and Johnny Depp. You'll get what I'm saying.
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i know exactly what you're talking about. i'm going to do that tonight.
 
Matthew Bennett said:
Watched a few minutes,
First impression is that the mic was awful, you'll probably want to ADR everything. If you don't have a professional sound mix with a great mic no one is going to take you seriously. You'll have to re-do that.

It seemed a tad on the dark side, image wise, I felt like I wanted to see more detail in the men's faces.
Sorry I have no idea what the plot or dialogue is .. promise I'll watch it later! Seems like a good concept.
Click to expand...

my first thoughts too. that hum takes away from the scene 'big time' as well, the faces are in shadow... i'd setup for my characters & let the windows either blow-out or put some film on them... maybe even cheat some light on their faces from above w/ a small rig to cheat the practicals...

also, fwiw: great advice re: your talent too... may want to let (usually the case, if you have great actors) the characters make it their own a bit more as the dialog is a bit unreal in feel.

i do like the juxtopostion of the guy drinking while discussing his case. very nice idea & so true to life.

just my 2¢.... (as a viewer). bol
 
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if you can get rid of that actor, get rid of him. audiences are very unforgiving. they're not going to say, "aww, but he tried hard". It's unfortunately part of the business to fire actors but in the end this is about YOUR project, not his feelings (unless he's a good friend - then you have to make some tough decisions). Just make sure you get somebody that is clearly better and not just different.

No zoom. Zoom bad. Zoom very bad. Unless you're going for a 70s feel. I just meant the exact same establishing shot that you have but move in slowly on a dolly. I don't even know if you have a dolly. The static shot will suffice I guess, but those only work if the lighting and the set dressing look great. I don't think you have those resources so it's best to add some little flair (like a dolly) to not let the audience linger on the sub-par production value. If you don't have a dolly, what about shooting your establishing shot from up high? Do you have high ceilings? Looking down at those guys at sort of a 3/4 angle would look a lot better than the boring seen-it-a-thousand-times-before straight-on side of the table shot.

Good luck.
 
lol, got it. no zooming in. i'm also going to look into investing in a dolly. the actors are working for free so that frees up my budget to get additional things like lighting which i'm ordering this week before we start another scene.
 
I agree with the comments posted so far. But I would like to say that jamescarveronline has amazing website design!
 
the rule of thirds is a basic composition guideline. Rarely will you center an actors head directly on screen. Jared Hess, (dir Napolean Dynamite is a recent exception) So you break the screen vertically and horizontally into thirds (imaginary lines), so it looks like a tic tac toe board. The actors heads should be partially in one of the top corner boxes. Which one depends on which way he is speaking. I am making this sound much more complicated than it is. I would watch a couple of good films with the sound off and you will get the idea.

IMO the actor is bad enough that he should be replaced. I have studied enough to have scene many people beginning at his level and he won't improve enough especially to carry a feature.

AND I AGREE, VERY NICE WEBSITE
 
alright, so i have a good idea of what the rule of thirds is and hadnt seen any mention of it in my cinematography book but it makes sense.

as far as the actor i guess i am going to have him replaced because this is not the first place where i am hearing this feedback on him.

and as for the website i do it myself. it's not really hard once you have a design you like, the animation part is just tedious especially when developing a frame by frame animated website. i'm a graphic/web designer by day.
 
rule of thirds... this is a great explanation.........

http://www.digitaljuice.com/djtv/segment_detail.asp?sid=81&sortby=&page=1&kwid=0&show=all_videos

that website has some great tutorials check out the others..

http://www.digitaljuice.com/djtv/default.asp?page=1&sortby=&kwid=0&show=all_videos


and ADR...unsure if u meant u really didn't know..but its when u have to re-record actors voices as what was shot on location could not be used for whatever reasons, such as background noise too loud ect... "automatic dialog replacement"
although its NOT automatic..i think there are a few definitions of what it stands for...i've heard it call a few things on MAKING OF on dvd's.

if u knew that ...ignore me and watch those videos...

cheers
 
androoow said:
rule of thirds... this is a great explanation.........

http://www.digitaljuice.com/djtv/segment_detail.asp?sid=81&sortby=&page=1&kwid=0&show=all_videos

that website has some great tutorials check out the others..

http://www.digitaljuice.com/djtv/default.asp?page=1&sortby=&kwid=0&show=all_videos


and ADR...unsure if u meant u really didn't know..but its when u have to re-record actors voices as what was shot on location could not be used for whatever reasons, such as background noise too loud ect... "automatic dialog replacement"
although its NOT automatic..i think there are a few definitions of what it stands for...i've heard it call a few things on MAKING OF on dvd's.

if u knew that ...ignore me and watch those videos...

cheers
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androoow thanx! i've been watching these video clips all night. and no i had no idea what ADR was. ;)
 
Okay... You should reshoot this.

Don't ADR a thing. Unless you have a nice place to re-record your sound, try to do all the dialogue with remote mics (lavs) or get the boom closer. Get good sound. IMO ADR, even good ADR, neuters a scene. You want that original, natural dialogue.

Also, if you spun these guys 90 degrees so the light coming in from the windows was even, you'd have some nice lighting... the dark, creepy feeling. Just turn them so the light hits evenly on their faces.

You can cheat this location big time... Maybe add some people walking around in the background and foreground. Just have a buddy walk in front of the camera or put someone at a table in the background. A waitress filling up the glass. Get some more movement in there.

Definitely get a dolly. If you don't have access to a good one and the ground is flat use a wheel chair. Also if you don't have a stedicam, use a monopod, it will give you that hint of movement. You need more movement.

Any actor can be coached. That guys problem is that he's trying too hard. A simple way to fix that and this is a cheat.... is to tell him to slow down and speak softer. As is, he's just delivering lines on a page, and ARTICLUATING, which is what STAGE actors do best...(sorry stage actors I'm just kidding) but if you tell him to slow down and maybe even speak like he's depressed or mumble a bit.... you can fool the audience even if the actor is sub par.

Also you need to use some L cuts on the audio... the audio has gaps between shots so use some L cuts to fix that.... also get some ambient restaurant noise in there to kill the buzz... and finally.... get a nice unobtrusive piece of music that lays under everything... you're not going to build tension with just cut-aways... you need some kick-ass but simple music.

good luck
 
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