Shooting 24p and transferring with NON 24p camera

I

IILUM1NATUS

New member
So I am shooting with the DVX at 24p and I am transferring with a little crappy non 24p miniDV camera. Will this effect the 24p look and feel in anyway or will it effect any techinical aspects when I edit?

I have done this already, and I did notice that it the frames where a little blurry and choppy, but very slightly only a person that is familuar with 24p could notice. I am editing with Premiere Pro 2 by the way, and if I don't use the deflicker at 24p there is a slight horizontal line motion blur.

One more question if I shoot 24p and I edit at normal 29.97fps in Premiere or Final Cut will it take away the 24p look? Should I just stick to 24p shooting and editing?
 
I dont think it matters what camera are you using to transfer your 24P footage...afterall it is just the digital data being transfered through the elctrical circuirtry...no more no less. The data should remain what it is, whether for the progressive or interalced footage.

may be someone else can answer your editing question
 
You are going to want to make sure that your capturing software knows that it's supposed to be 24p footage, using either standard or advanced pulldown. In FCP this is as easy as a drop-down menu, but you'll want to make sure it's set right.

As for editing in 29.97, that will obviously screw up your 24p feel. Not only will the frames be shorter, with more of them per second, but since you shot in 24p, six frames a second are artifically copied or interpolated by the camera as filler to be removed later. If you don't remove the filler, then your footage will not appear as it should.

Now, most people probably wouldn't notice, but in the 24/30 fps decision (barring film print ambitions) the effect you're going for is more subtle anyway.
 
Funny you should ask !

Funny you should ask !

You raise some very interesting issues regarding shooting, ingesting, editing, and outputting 24p video. As you noted, there are two 24 fps modes; 24p (23) and the advanced version 24ps (2332) pulldowns.

I read in the various mags about 24p film like and after much CBS prime time shows of late I see why 24f is so desired.

It looks like the black pedestal is crushed. I used to do that when I was running video for the Oprah+Rich's PAT show in the 80's. They used to think wow, how did I make the cams looks so pretty ! Of course I had to paint each shot before it was punched up and coming from a fast-board in radio I had no problem with that.

Anyway, I have a yearning to produce some film-like weddings and horse shows for people in my area.

So I bought a used spx800 P2 camera figuring that 24p producing would be easy. Just set it at 24p and no problem WRONG !

I have tried and tried to get the film look I want and have gotten it but NOT at the desired 16:9 widescreen.

The spx800 is supposed to shoot native 16:9 at 24p (or 24pa).
But when I convert the P2 material (XMF format) into Vegas 7c (it does not like native XMF P2) into AVI files (that Vegas likes) I loose the 16:9 rez; the various MXF P2 to AVI conversion tools I have tried bot do this (CineForm and Raylight) {I have yet to try the newly acquired Adobe solution $500).

here is my workflow:

Shoot on the spx800 at 16:9, 24p
Convert to AVi using Raylight with NO FRAMES REMOVED selected.
Edit in Vegas 7c using project setting of widescreen, DV at 24fpc (actually 23.97ish) at 720-460.
Then I render out the Vegas timeline at widescreen 23.97 fps 720-460 which is the CCD size of the spx800.

When I watch the finished AVI it shows black bars on the edges.

What do you think I am doing wrong ?
many thanks

Patrick
 
It makes ZERO difference if you use a non 24p camera for logging and capturing, as the dvx uses pulldown(either 2-3-2-3 normal or 2-3-3-2 advanced) to lay the 24p image to tape in a 60i format.

24pN 2-3-2-3 cadence can be edited fine in a 29.97 timeline, 24pA 2-3-3-2 can be used to edit in a native 24 timeline.
 
are you shooting 16:9 squeeze or 4:3 letterbox? you might be accidentally trying to output as a widescreen project with the clip still set to 4:3, which could do that.(once had a similar problem)
 
anchoryanker said:
It makes ZERO difference if you use a non 24p camera for logging and capturing, as the dvx uses pulldown(either 2-3-2-3 normal or 2-3-3-2 advanced) to lay the 24p image to tape in a 60i format.
Click to expand...
Not 100% true, some cameras don't display timecode for playing back progressive footage, such as the pv-gs120. Most do however, just be sure to check before buying.
 
salils said:
Not 100% true, some cameras don't display timecode for playing back progressive footage, such as the pv-gs120. Most do however, just be sure to check before buying.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are right, I stand corrected. I forgot that a handful of them can't handle the timecode.
 
Patrick Forestell said:
When I watch the finished AVI it shows black bars on the edges.

What do you think I am doing wrong ?
Click to expand...

I don't think you're doing anything wrong, assuming the black bars are narrow and not wide.

You'd think "16:9" would be a mathematically consistent formula and that everything would agree on what exactly it is, but it isn't, and there are slight variations between cameras, NLEs, etc.. The black bars on the sides on the Vegas timeline simply mean that the image is a bit narrower than the timeline setup.

Go into pan/crop, right-click, and select "Match Output Ratio." This will get rid of the black bars. It will also shave a little off the top and bottom.

Or just leave the black bars. They won't be visible on any TV screen; they'll be well within the overscan area.
 
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