Is the HVX horrible in low light

Barry_Green said:
HVX is one stop slower than the DVX in progressive, and two stops slower than the DVX when in interlaced. Gain and noise seem roughly comparable between the HVX and DVX.
Click to expand...

This should be a freakin' sticky. Says it all. Can you live with one less stop? Maybe a little more grain if you need that stop back? I can. So much for too dark for run & gun.
 
Coming from the old canon cams... I like the HVX in DV mode in low-light. Looks really quite acceptable to me... I know the DVX is really held up high in that.. but the HVX looks great in my experience.


Also, I think it's so funny for people to chime in with the Canon or the new Sony as knocking off the HVX. Like killing the king of the cams... I haven't used the new Canon camera... but I did get to shoot a bit with the older H1 and with the JVC.. and with the Sony HD. And each of them had noise. Franky, when I saw it on the JVC for the first time.. made me laugh. There has to be some detractors... and it depends upon how sensitive you are.


personally though, I show my HVX footage to clients.. friends and family and I get wows and genuine appreciation for it's quality.. Regardless of to what I shot it on. I also know that when I recently shot a project for a producer.. He had a Sony HDV camera and a JVC HD camera to match to my HVX.. And I asked him how it looked and how he matched it.. and he said that he had to turn down the color 50 percent to match it to those HDV cams.. And quite franky even then I could see a difference.

All you need to do is to come down here and see that on the major shoots.. regardless as to what camera is the main cam.. 35mm, varicam, cinealta, viper (etc)... almost to a default the B-cameras or crash cameras and quite often the main camera on medium budget stuff is the HVX. I have yet to see anything else brought out as an HD camera by professional people. SIMPLE.. PERIOD.. END of STORY.... But things might change and when they do.. shooot I'll jump on that band wagon like I did with the HVX.... Fair weather filmmaker as the tools don't really define the artist.. but what you can do with it, and frankly I'm creating some great looking images with a camera that cost less than my car... Now that's something!
 
Not saying that you're wrong or anyone is wrong, Justyn. It's just what you said-- how much you can tolerate (or in your words, how sensitive to it the person is.)

HVX is the overall better camera. Established. Doesn't mean that it's the cleanest image.

But, there is awesome work being done with it. Even Rhydon's tests (please see HVXfootage forum) are proving that. That guy has some serious skills. I love the new portions he included in the re-upload.

It's definitely low-light footage, but the CCing is fantastic!!!
 
Indeed. I mean.. shoot as soon as I can swing it I'm going to buy the Sony single chip HDV camera and an underwater video housing. To be able to get both for 2500 is a steal and would look great without scaring the hell out of me like the HVX would in a housing... It'd be super small and easy to swim with... Perfect solution for what I'm doing...
 
kevinM said:
To me, the big advantage of the HVX is the format. Not to mention the multiple recording modes, P2, true 24p and variable frame rates. It's all been discussed a thousand times.

I can set up the camera to minimize noise but there is no way to compensate for the fact that HDV has half the color information.

And THATS the bottom line.
Click to expand...

totally agree.
 
HVX in low light

HVX in low light

grokgod said:
Hello all,

I really need some help here.

I was just about to buy the HVX and all its accessories when my new DP told me that he had work:crybaby: ed with the HVX in the past and that the low light abilites were horrible.
Too much noise , it was unusable, he basically told me NOT to buy it, that we couldnt shoot my horror/thriller with it.

Not unless we flooded it with alot of light, he says its great in light but low light NO way!

Now I dont have experience with the HVX, but I know from the Panny lx1 and lx2 cameras that they ahd serious Low Light noise Issues and was afraid that this issue was translated to the video cams.

Is this true, does anyone here have experience with the HVX under these conditions.

I appreciate the help frmo anyone, I have become desperate.

thank
Click to expand...

Hey,

I just finished a short film almost entirely low-light with the HVX, sometimes using only firelight to get an image. Yeah, sure, you can get images that are unusable the light is so low, so I'd reshoot at higher levels (maybe bring the light closer) and if it's more than I needed then bring it back down in post. More light than you need is always better than not enough, but don't be afraid to experiment. I've had issues with grain only when my light was too low and I was trying to bring it up in post.

Yeah, this camera only has a 1/3" ccd detector, but look at the front end---it has an objective more than 3" in diameter. That's a lot of light focused down to 1/3". CCD size isn't the only factor, light-gathering capacity is the issue. Sure I'd like to own a 2/3" camera, but Jesus, the HVX does a really fantastic job when given enough light, and you can give it all it needs and still get the look you want. Anyone that has a phobia about the HVX hasn't used it and is operating on the opinion, probably, of someone else that doesn't know what he's talking about. If we want true HD the HVX is the only show in town at the moment (everything else considered), until the 2/3" version arrives. If money weren't an issue I'd probably still be using the HVX.

My guess is that the guy refusing to use the HVX hasn't shot low light anyway and can't think on his feet regarding how he might provide the light required and get the right look. I'd ask someone else to do it, or shoot it yourself. The HVX can do a great job in creating a low light look, it sure has for me.


Carey
 
Last edited:
Here are two screen grabs of some low-light stuff I just shoton the HVX... f1.7 scene file 6. 720P. Images are straight off the camera no grade. Used only two lights, a redhead and a blonde. Cheap lights. I love this camera.

nick-dark.jpg


nick-dark2.jpg
 
wow, great color in that shot. nuff said. I think the bottom line is that all cameras under $20,000 or even more are gonna have some low light / noise issues. I think the reason people get into the hvx is for the 4:2:2, the over/undercranking, and the p2 capabilities. those seem to be the biggest advantages. if those arent important to you, then buy a different camera.
 
Wauw, you used a massive 1.650 watts on light and this is all you get? Indeed, this cam is a light-hungry monster!
 
xray said:
Wauw, you used a massive 1.650 watts on light and this is all you get? Indeed, this cam is a light-hungry monster!
Click to expand...

does it look like the lights were near by? the lights were placed outside the building... coming in through the windows at a distance... use your brain
 
mattscope said:
does it look like the lights were near by? the lights were placed outside the building... coming in through the windows at a distance... use your brain
Click to expand...

freaking dark it is, this low light example. My brain hurts from not seeing it.
 
Yes Matt, interested to learn if those frames are default scene 6 setup? Or has the Master Pedestal been dropped to say -7 to -15? I would be interested to see those frames as 720p PNG files. The reason, low light HVX footage I have observed, in general, has some form of macroblocking in the blacks when viewed on an LCD computer monitor. However, this may not be so relevant or pronounced on a broadcast monitor/HDTV. Just interested to know/feedback, thanks.
 
Camera settings were just default scene 6.... f1.7 Nothing has been altered. The intention of the scene is for it to be as dark as possible but also be able to see whats going on...

nickdark.png


I think thats what your looking for... I haven't seen it on a broadcast monitor/HDTV yet either...

Thanks for the comments guys. Just wanted to show what the camera is capable of.
 
some noisy dark images

some noisy dark images

These are a couple of SD frame grabs from a video I shot with partially with HVX right after it came out. I shot this footage in near total darkness with only a handheld Litepanel using default out-of-the-box settings. Everything was underexposed by 1-2 stops. In post we "added" several duplicate layers in After Effects and came up with a very sexy grainy push-processed look that was perfect for the gritty doc feel of the project. At first I was surprised by the reduced light sensitivity relative to a DVX, but I like the fact that if you do end up with noise it looks very film-like compared to other digital cameras, IMO. This was shot in 720 @ 60FPS, BTW.

FunkyFr_01.png

FunkyFr_02.png
 
mattscope said:
Camera settings were just default scene 6.... f1.7 Nothing has been altered. The intention of the scene is for it to be as dark as possible but also be able to see whats going on...
Click to expand...
Matt, great results, and default settings. Thanks for posting the PNG and feedback.
 
mattscope said:
Camera settings were just default scene 6.... f1.7 Nothing has been altered. The intention of the scene is for it to be as dark as possible but also be able to see whats going on...

nickdark.png


I think thats what your looking for... I haven't seen it on a broadcast monitor/HDTV yet either...

Thanks for the comments guys. Just wanted to show what the camera is capable of.
Click to expand...

Those blacks have been crushed. That is a beautiful image, but crushing blacks of course will kill noise, the point is to show detail in the darks, this is where noise occurs. And I say the same to everyone making comparisons, show detail in the darks. The reality is the HVX does have noise. But we are all noticing noise more these days because we are all shooting HD on 1/3rd inch chip cams (someone mentioned that), and there is a battle to fight.... Z1 is great in low noise (but who wants a cam limited to 60i?). We can use our creative skills to make up the difference.
 
Last edited:
ncje said:
Those blacks have been crushed. That is a beautiful image, but crushing blacks of course will kill noise, the point is to show detail in the darks, this is where noise occurs. And I say the same to everyone making comparisons, show detail in the darks. The reality is the HVX does have noise. But we are all noticing noise more these days because we are all shooting HD on 1/3rd inch chip cams (someone mentioned that), and there is a battle to fight.... Z1 is great in low noise (but who wants a cam limited to 60i?). We can use our creative skills to make up the difference.
Click to expand...

Thank you. The blacks are really crushed in this image. You can't even see what's in the background. Your subject's facial features are clear from what we can see in the stills... yet I can't see what else is around him.

As NCJE said, noise occurcs in the darks: fabrics, darker skin-tones, shadows. It's okay to crush shadows, but not clothing or other important items in frame. There's really no way around it but to make the subject matter interesting.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top