Should I Change To Avid Liquid Edition 7 From Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5?

A

andybiz_2005

Well-known member
Hi all,

I need some advice on NLEs. For years, I've been using Adobe Premire & now using Premiere Pro 1.5. I recently talked to a shop owner selling video editing packages & he recommended that I switch to using Avid Liquid Edition 7.

He told me that with Avid Liquid Edition 7, there is no need to render the edited video as it comes with a hardware, together with software to render the video in realtime. Adobe Premiere Pro does not have this real-time render option, which I find attractive. From the brochure I received, it mentioned that Avid Liquid is a complete solution in that it can edit video, audio, put in special effects, design navigatible DVD menus & burn them to DVD.

However, on doing some research on Google on Avid Liquid Edition 7, I've come to realize that version 7 of Avid Liquid still implements a non-standard interface as mentioned in this article : http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=36233
http://www.trustedreviews.com/graphics/review/2006/08/03/Avid-Liquid-7-1-Video-Editing-Package/p1

Since I'm already using Adobe Premiere as my main video editing package, After Effects for special effects work, Photoshop CS2 for design graphics & menu designs, & Adobe Encore for DVD authoring, is there enough compelling reason to switch to completely new NLE like Avid Liquid Pro?

Currently, I do like the complete Adobe suite of software as they have very tight integration with each other, but I'm also attracted to Avid Liquid's real-time rendering, which can save valuable time for me in burning the final DVD.

If I do switch to Avid Liquid Pro Edition 7, can I still use Adobe Photoshop for my image editing & menu design & bring it into Avid? Can I also use Adobe After Effects for doing customized special effects & bring the special effects easily into Avid? These are my concerns as I think that AE is a superb & powerful compositing software.

By the way, I have DVX100A & only edit standard def. footage. My edting workstation is an AMD64 Athlon 3000 (1.8GHz processor), 2GB of RAM, 2X200GB IDE harddisk & nVidia Winfast PX6600 TD graphics card with 128MB VRAM.

Would appreciate you helpful advice on Avid Liquid Pro Edition 7. Thanks in advance. Oh, I forgot to add that it costs me $5000 (half the price of my DVX100A) for the complete Avid Liquid 7.0 Pro Edition. So I have to consider carefully since it's not cheap.

Andrew
 
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I'm not a fan of Liquid. I say go Avid Xpress Pro with a standard Mojo (if you can afford it).
 
i second the motion by dc axp is the way to go. i dont know anything about avid liquid but if dc says go with axp then thats what id do.
 
bilgami said:
i second the motion by dc axp is the way to go. i dont know anything about avid liquid but if dc says go with axp then thats what id do.
Click to expand...

Wow, talk about faith . . .

:happy:
 
Hi Andrew ! - I edit my DVX100A PAL footage on Liquid - and I love it. I LOVE IT !

HOWEVER, There's a BIG difference between Liquid and Premier, and I think you should try a demo version first before spending $$$$$$ !

You say the man with stock to sell told you :-
QUOTE : there is no need to render the edited video as it comes with a hardware, together with software to render the video in realtime.

THIS IS NOT CORRECT. - The "hardware that renders the video" is your PC - and for realtime, it needs to be powerful. The hardware supplied with the Pro version , "PRO Breakout Box ( pinnacle hardware ) is a USB 2 device to allow you to see a preview DURING EDITING. This has nothing to do with making the final DVDs in your PC's burner. To output your edited movie to DVD, the whole thing has still to be encoded , as usual. ( but the encoding is very good )

The advantage Liquid has , is that all the rendering for transitions, effects, slowmotion, picture in picture, CG etc. etc. has already been done , in the background , whilst you were editing. - but DVD encoding doesnot take place until you initiate it !

Please don't think I'm trying to put you off Liquid; I'm not ! - but you sould be presented with clearer info before spending your hard earned money !!

As for the interface, I think it's one of the best features ! - It's fully customisable - no unused controls cluttering it, and it converts your Windows PC into an EDITING MACHINE !!

Try the software-only free trial on another pc , or on a new system partition of your hard drive. - be carefull about having two editing programs on one o.s. - they'll almost certainly mess each other up.
see Avid's forums here http://www.avid.com/exchange/forums/54/ShowForum.aspx

I love Liquid , but I wouldn't like to see you rush into ditching something you know how to use without careful consideration ! - Good Luck - Ruff !
 
I haven't used the Avid version of Liquid Edition, but the Pinnacle version is the only software I've found that could reliably and spontaneously reboot my PC while running XP: and even when it did shut down properly it liked to eat my Mozilla bookmarks somehow.

Also, it had a totally non-standard interface which ignored all the Windows conventions, so it was hardly intuitive: I particularly enjoyed the way that if you used the DVD editor to change your DVD settings, but didn't exit the DVD editor before outputting to DVD, it would spend two hours compressing the video to DVD using the _OLD_ settings rather than the ones you'd just set up. Ha-ha, how we laughed at that one.

Hopefully Avid have improved it, but I have no desire to try the new version to find out.
 
Thank you very much Ruff_Futtidge for you non-biased & balanced opinion on Liquid. You are right, when the salesperson told me that Liquid can render my video in realtime, he did not specifically tell me that you still need to encode the edited video if you want to burn it to a DVD. Besides, when using Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 on my PC I can actually play back whatever transitions, or effects I apply to my video b.c. my PC is quite fast & powerful.

The reason why I have stuck with Adobe suite of programs is because there is very tight integration between Premiere, Photoshop, Encore, Audition & After Effects. I can for example design my navigation DVD menus in Photoshop complete with layers & directly import the graphics intact into Encore for DVD authoring. In Premiere's timeline, I can edit original a picture & it opens up in Photoshop. Once I save the changes in photoshop, the changes are instantly updated in Premiere Pro. By talking with videographers, some working in big production houses, they tell me that After Effects is the way to go for special effects work in video & production houses in my country use it quite widely for effects. I 'm comfortable using the Adobe suite of software & for the moment, the re is not compelling reason enough to switch.

The only really compelling reason to switch to another NLE would be if that NLE can actually render/encode my edited video in realtime to DVD. Currently, do you know any NLEs that is capable of this? Then it would really save precious time having to encode & render the video to DVD. Sometimes I have to do express edits for wedding clients. THat means whatever I shot on video during the morning will have to be edited very quickly & highlights of the morning's proceedings to be shown during the night the same day.

Andrew
 
I've been doing some research on other NLEs like DV Storm & Matrox RT.X2.

I'm particularly attracted to Matrox RT.X2 because I alraedy have the Adobe Production Suite & the Matrox Card has tight support for Adobe. Plus there are also 3D transitions & most importantly very fast encoding (MPEG2) to DVD which is quite an important requirement for a wedding videographer like me. Adobe Premiere's native encoding to MPEG2 & burning to DVD is excessively slow.

What do you all think about the features of Matrox RT.X2 found at :http://www.matrox.com/video/solutions/event.cfm

zoostory, my business can't afford a Mac & Final Cut Studio b.c. these machines are still too high-priced in my country. I've already invested in a decent editing station & plan to stick with this workflow.
 
I have not found Liquid's interface to be that different from other editors. It is different, but in some sense, an editor is an editor.
 
Andrew - I use the DV input Pioneer DVR320 to record previews of my final edit in realtime straight off Liquid's timeline , via a standard IEEE1394a PCI firewire card - see http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271277
I still use Liquid to author a menued DVD for bulk duplication, but the Pioneer live recording is great for sending out as a preview.

HOWEVER !! - This full DV output down the ten dollar firewire card is only available in versions upto v5.62 , they DISABLED this option on v6.0 and above to force us to buy their hundreds-of-dollars pci card and BoB, so unless you buy the pro version you've no full screen output in versions above 5.62. ( the scheming rotters. )

So if you only edit SD footage , you might be able to find a software only version of Liquid 5.0 , 5.1 , 5.5 , or the downloadable free upgrade to 5.62 ( original installation CD and serial numbers required. )

Also, BE WARNED that I've found only Pioneer DVD recorders to have a PnP compliant DV in/out port. ALL OTHERS that I've tried, including LG , Packard Bell , CyberHome , and Sony ( unbeleivably seeing as Sony co-invented iLink/Firewire ) , are NOT PnP compliant , and hence your PC will not send video them.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270093

Ruff !
 
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I have been using Liquid Edition for a few years now. Presently I own V6.1 and I can tell you it is rock solid. It has never crashed! I don't know what MarkG's rant is about but I have never heard of the problems he is describing.

This is what I like about LE.

Background rendering-Rendering doesn't have to be the last step, it is always happening in the background. When you get to sending out the finished product, it is completly rendered and ready for output.

The interface-I have heard that it is hard to get up to speed but that wasn't my experience. There are exceptional training video's like Adita's, and Paul Mitton's training sets so learning the interface may only be a weekend of watching the training DVD's to get totally up to speed. I find the interface like a painter's palette, all controls can be set to your work style. And all of the tools you need are right there. Clutter is reduced considerably yet it is a very powerful app with an impressive tool kit.

There is good forum support- Many veteran users can help with problems and suggestions.

Integrated DVD authoring- I like being able to author the DVD right from the timeline.
 
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Thank guys for all your contributions. I'm curious about Matrox RT.X2. Has anyone ever used it & could share your experience of Matrox, how good it is, how bad it is, etc? Thanks.
 
I don't know what MarkG's rant is about but I have never heard of the problems he is describing.
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Good for you: I never got it to run once without either a crash or trashing my hard disk on reboot, and plenty of other people on the old Pinnacle forums said it was just as unreliable for them too.

Meanwhile Xpress Pro HD runs pretty much flawlessly, as does every other piece of software on this machine.

Edit: oh, yeah, I also spent the best part of a day just trying to get the Pinnacle 'activation' crap to work before discovering that it just doesn't work at all with SCSI CD drives. I eventually had to install an IDE CD drive in my PC just to get the software I'd paid for to run.
 
Liquid is OK for editing PAL footage, but it has no ability to remove pulldown, or reinsert it for previewing your editing, so it's almost useless for working with 24p DV -- to say nothing of making 24p DVDs.
 
Yes that is true. LE does not yet (may never have) these elements ...such as the ability to remove pulldown or work with 24p. It is not a program that is good for achieving the "film look".
 
I've been using Liquid for about 5 years now and feel it's the right application for me out there for what I do. No 24p yet however compared to the 3-4 others in this range it is the supreme champion in realtime performance, FX, editing, authoring and overall.

You'll find the next release will likely have the 24p support as well as P2 and native HD, it already does native HDV.

The latest DV magazine has the comparisons of all the NLE's in this range, more Yes colums appear for Liquid then all the others including Express.
 
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