Panasonic firmware update for LCD Flip.

DC said:
According to a certain Panasonic engineer, he believes a "flip" mode should be fairly easy to implement through a firmware update. He mentioned that somebody just has to write the code so the flip occurs at the CCD's. It's not a matter of simply flipping the image for viewing - the image must be flipped for recording.
Click to expand...

1. I agree.

2. As it's been a full year (since I remember this, originally, being discussed--along with our various and sundry guesses/complaints about when the HVX was going to debut), my memory may be failing me, but: I'm pretty sure we asked for this BEFORE the camera was released.

3. I'd like to ask that Barry or Jarred get a definitive answer to the questions, "can it be done?"

4. This is not a small community (DVXUSER), If the answer is yes I propose that Jarred start a petition that each member could sign.

Anyone opposed?
 
dregenthal said:
1. I agree.

2. As it's been a full year (since I remember this, originally, being discussed--along with our various and sundry guesses/complaints about when the HVX was going to debut), my memory may be failing me, but: I'm pretty sure we asked for this BEFORE the camera was released.

3. I'd like to ask that Barry or Jarred get a definitive answer to the questions, "can it be done?"

4. This is not a small community (DVXUSER), If the answer is yes I propose that Jarred start a petition that each member could sign.

Anyone opposed?
Click to expand...
Opposed? Hell no. This should've been done much earlier than now. It's a reasonable firmware update.
 
that would be rad. only because it REALLY stresses clients out that the footage is upside down.....

i mea like producer yellling at the 2nd ac stressful...... becuase the folks fromthe company were freakig that the footage was upside down, despite explaining to them indepth how the post process worked.
 
Is it just me or does anyone else here question the logic behind this request?
I mean Panasonic design and build a camera that you point and shoot with and it produces an image that is the right way up. Then someone designs an adapter that attaches to the front of the camera but makes the image upside down and now all of a sudden eveyone thinks that Panasonic should include an upgrade to the camera that will flip the image again.
Has anyone though of maybe petitioning Redrock to make their adapter produce an image that is the right way up?
Hey what about mounting the adapter upside down?:)
 
ozduc said:
Is it just me or does anyone else here question the logic behind this request?
I mean Panasonic design and build a camera that you point and shoot with and it produces an image that is the right way up. Then someone designs an adapter that attaches to the front of the camera but makes the image upside down and now all of a sudden eveyone thinks that Panasonic should include an upgrade to the camera that will flip the image again.
Has anyone though of maybe petitioning Redrock to make their adapter produce an image that is the right way up?
Hey what about mounting the adapter upside down?:)
Click to expand...

There's plenty of logic in it: the people want an easier solution, and the firmware will give us that.

I do see your point about the camera not being specifically designed for such a thing, though. There's no harm in asking for it, either.
 
Hope I'm not wrong in guessing that this is the Final Cut 3-way color corrector with that one nifty plug-in. I can't remember the name of it. Using the NUMERIC sliders/scales instead of the VISUAL ones?

Either way, looks great!
 
true to degree. but making the adapter flip the image leads to an additional one or two stop loss of light. when doing a production, if the overall lighting scheme needs to be increased accordingly youre talking about an additional step up in the output of the lights. all of a sudden you need 1k,s instead of 650... but now you need the electrical hardware to support a 1K lighting scheme... or possibly a 2k scheme depending on the light loss.

this increases cost significantly. it is not unreasonable to make an incamera solution especally when many of the users of the camera will need the ability to flip in camera.

Bravo to jvc for forseeing this neccesity.



ozduc said:
Is it just me or does anyone else here question the logic behind this request?
I mean Panasonic design and build a camera that you point and shoot with and it produces an image that is the right way up. Then someone designs an adapter that attaches to the front of the camera but makes the image upside down and now all of a sudden eveyone thinks that Panasonic should include an upgrade to the camera that will flip the image again.
Has anyone though of maybe petitioning Redrock to make their adapter produce an image that is the right way up?
Hey what about mounting the adapter upside down?:)
Click to expand...
 
In my opinion, the FLIP function would be a HUGE competetive advantage due to the fact so many people use a 35mm adapter.
 
robot909 said:
In my opinion, the FLIP function would be a HUGE competetive advantage due to the fact so many people use a 35mm adapter.
Click to expand...
No, it would merely achieve parity with some other cameras, like the Sony XL H1.
 
Is it just me or does anyone else here question the logic behind this request?
I mean Panasonic design and build a camera that you point and shoot with and it produces an image that is the right way up. Then someone designs an adapter that attaches to the front of the camera but makes the image upside down and now all of a sudden eveyone thinks that Panasonic should include an upgrade to the camera that will flip the image again.
Has anyone though of maybe petitioning Redrock to make their adapter produce an image that is the right way up?
Hey what about mounting the adapter upside down?
Click to expand...

It makes perfect sense to ask for something like this. There's a demand for the feature. So long as people are requesting a feature on the camera, then it is logical to include it.
I do see what your point is though. It is funny how third party products can lead to the creation of changes in another product.
 
Redrock can certainly build an adapter with a flip feature, but whether you would be willing to pay for that (both in terms of the adapter price, the light that it will cost you, and increases in weight and size) is a whole different story.
 
THoff said:
No, it would merely achieve parity with some other cameras, like the Sony XL H1.
Click to expand...
Er, presumably you mean Canon XLH1, and as far as "parity", there is not a single camera on the market that offers the flip the way you'd want it. The XLH1 can only flip if you remove the stock lens, which defeats the purpose of using it for a homebrew adapter.

The JVC HD200 is going to be the first one on the market that actually implements the flip properly.

As for the feasibility of a firmware update, it all depends on what the firmware allows to be updated. Can it update all the software in the camera? Or just the menus and things like that? Because if there's no way to change the code at the DSP level, then there's no way a firmware update can add the proper flip.

They all know very well that we want it. There are a few things I've made very clear to them, every time I've found anyone from the factory to yell at about it. At NAB, at Broadcast India, in Singapore, in New Zealand, everywhere I find anyone to talk to about it I tell them two main things: give us the flip function, and let us trim in/out points on our MXF files in-camera. They know this very well. At NAB I even gave notes to the chief engineer who designed the HVX.

Trust me, the request has been made. A lot.
 
That's pretty funny.

One might suppose you have little stake in the matter based upon your comment.
(then again, one *might* be wrong).

I don't know, perhaps you didn't read (or absorb) all 4 point in my post . . .

I'm kinda curious to see if it "is just you" or not, perhaps others would be willing to comment on your suggestion? Butt, who nose?

I'm probably wrong . . . been a long time since Junior HS Science Class but I'm thinking that the manufacturer had to "flip" the image so that we would see it right side up in the first place . . . Seems like the image is probably displayed upside down to the CCD's much the same as our eyes see images (projected upside down to the back of the eye -- where the brain does a dandy job of flipping it back so that it makes sense to us.

Again, I could easily be wrong on this . . . Where the heck's Bob when you need him?

ozduc said:
Is it just me or does anyone else here question the logic behind this request?
I mean Panasonic design and build a camera that you point and shoot with and it produces an image that is the right way up. Then someone designs an adapter that attaches to the front of the camera but makes the image upside down and now all of a sudden eveyone thinks that Panasonic should include an upgrade to the camera that will flip the image again.
Has anyone though of maybe petitioning Redrock to make their adapter produce an image that is the right way up?
Hey what about mounting the adapter upside down?:)
Click to expand...
 
Barry_Green said:
As for the feasibility of a firmware update, it all depends on what the firmware allows to be updated. Can it update all the software in the camera? Or just the menus and things like that? Because if there's no way to change the code at the DSP level, then there's no way a firmware update can add the proper flip.

They all know very well that we want it. There are a few things I've made very clear to them, every time I've found anyone from the factory to yell at about it. At NAB, at Broadcast India, in Singapore, in New Zealand, everywhere I find anyone to talk to about it I tell them two main things: give us the flip function, and let us trim in/out points on our MXF files in-camera. They know this very well. At NAB I even gave notes to the chief engineer who designed the HVX.

Trust me, the request has been made. A lot.
Click to expand...

So, what do you think, Barry? can a firmware update on the HVX do "the Flip"?
 
Just thinking about the viewfinder, I wonder if anyone has tried a Schmitd Prism from Edmund Optical (Cat No A47-260). It is suposed to invert and revert the image while providing a 45o deviation.
I've only got the UK cat, the price is £127.50 + vat, and the url is www.edmundoptics.co.uk I would guess the US version would be www.edmundoptics.com

Cheers,
Dave
 
Hey!
I do not discover warm water, but I have used DVRAck 2.0 HD for some weeks and I tell you boys, this is a super tool including a 720p real resolution Monitor with the V & H flip options, for a fraction of the best monitors price!!!
 
Barry_Green said:
There are a few things I've made very clear to them, every time I've found anyone from the factory to yell at about it. At NAB, at Broadcast India, in Singapore, in New Zealand, everywhere I find anyone to talk to about it I tell them two main things: give us the flip function, and let us trim in/out points on our MXF files in-camera. They know this very well. At NAB I even gave notes to the chief engineer who designed the HVX. Trust me, the request has been made. A lot.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Barry, for pushing for this. We all know they will listen very carefully to you. :)
 
DC said:
According to a certain Panasonic engineer, he believes a "flip" mode should be fairly easy to implement through a firmware update. He mentioned that somebody just has to write the code so the flip occurs at the CCD's. It's not a matter of simply flipping the image for viewing - the image must be flipped for recording.

It is also highly recommended that you do not attempt to flip the LCD image using the paperclip technique. These are very sensitive components that cost approximately $700 to repair, should you cause excessive damage.

Furthermore, the biggest problem with the HVX (in terms of repair services) has been with the rings by the lens. The seal is only a plastic one and is susceptible to clogging by stuff like sand and dirt. This causes grinding and resistance while trying to turn the ring. This is also not covered under warranty and is approx. $1200 to repair. So, if you're planning on shooting at a beach or something, protect your camera with a CamWrap (or the like).

There has actually been one unpublicized firmware update. The update adds a mode to the camera where certain audio frequencies are filtered out from being recorded, specifically to help minimize the noise of the relatively slow zoom mechanism being picked up by the internal mics.

Regarding the aforementioned Panasonic engineer, I'm going to post his name and contact information. He mentioned that we could petition for a "flip" mode by emailing him and he will forward it to the appropriate party.
Click to expand...

It can't hurt to keep petitioning Panasonic for the flip mode and other improvements . . .

[original contact info removed - direct any and all petitions to Jan Cittenden]
 
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Hi,

Tom is an engineer/technician at our LA facility. Super guy, but the petitions if they are going to be sent should be sent to me. But before you pick up your pens to start writing, I have been told repeatedly, because I have asked repeatedly, by the factory that this is not possible as a firmware upgrade. Sorry.

Frankly since you will be adding more glass to the front of your camera and I think the only solution is and it is a necessary one, to purchase the Marshall and turn it upside down. I think that trying to focus all of that glass on a small screen is asking for trouble,

My .02,

Jan
 
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