I bought this camera so that _I_ could work

fleaguit said:
Dude, NEEEEEEVER rent your cam out for free to anyone from the outside. A close friend borrowing it is one thing, but noone should get a camera for free, you had to pay for that camera. They may not need pay you for operating it, but just lending the cam to everyone is poo pooed up, and it also hurts the market for those of us trying to hire out our gear.
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To work for free to learn your craft or crafts is one thing. But just the way you wrote it. It sounds like to me they know that they can get your camera free.

At the least I tell the people who want my camera free you want a producing credit and then its up do you to take the credit if the project sucks or not.

Still I'd get a little money out of them. Even if its $50 bucks a day.
 
Yeah, I'm willing to work for free to learn the craft, though I've been shooting professional for a couple of years, most of my stuff has been freelance videography, and trying to move into narrative film is a whole 'nother beast. I'll work for free if I'm getting something out of it, but yeah, she's basically asking me to show up with all of my gear, for free, while she and her buddy from LA get to run around.

A producing credit is interesting, but I'd rather just operate the camera, because it's a credit more useful to me and makes the video worth having on my reel if it's good. If I A/C, I can't use the film on the reel, and the only thing i get out of it is possible networking if everybody's cool. But what kind of networking is it worth if all the word about me is, "This guy has a nice camera and he's a sucker who'll work for free."?
 
mrwrong,

Where are you located? If you're in the new york area, I am still shooting pickups on my feature and could use a DP/Camera Op for a musical number. I pretty much know what I'm going, and would shoot it myself except that I'm acting in it as well. We have our own equipment (Hvx, jib, steadicam, dolly, lights, etc.) and wouldn't just be taking advantage of your gear if you were interested in helping out and learning a bit. Let me know.
 
MrWrong: Seriously if you have to come on the board to vent about this situation then I can see that you are clearly uncomfortable about the situation. The ONLY people that will make you feel more comfortable about the situation is the people who you are not comfortable with. IF you dont get EXECUTIVE Producing credits, Which is providing finances in order to help them in the competition or in its entierty. Also you need to have distribution contract drawn up, so you can collect if the film EVER AT ANY POINT get distributed. If this guy is from Hollywood, I know that I share a cut of the film, and when I DO become succesful in my craft, and a short I might do for artistic endevor, It only makes sense to credit and pay those who helped with my film(s). So if you dont get those or any rights, walk away with integrity and without leaving a bad taste in either of your mouths. Unless they are pricks about your negotiting, that should show you what you COULD HAVE expected from actually doing the situation. Make the right decision.
 
fleaguit, I'm located in San Francisco, sorry! But if you wind up in the bay area for a project, I'll gladly help out.

SurJones, I am waiting right now to see what her DP is going to say. She just brought him on and he is headed to Chicago, so she forwarded a reel of my work to him and will ask him if he's okay with me doing camera op. If so, then I will work and provide the equipment. My girlfriend originally came on the project to help with pre, but she's dropping out because she never got any direction on what the lady wants done, and the director grabbed someone in LA to handle pre anyway.

I have read the script and I don't really foresee distribution for it, I just wanted to do it for the sake of working on a project, but regardless, I don't see much coming from it if I am not involved doing something creatively, even if just moving the camera. What would an executive producer credit be worth, btw? I'm just curious, because it's an approach I hadn't considered before.
 
Why are you giving your camera away for free and allowing the production to abuse you? As others have said, this is a different story than your original post, which indicated that you were renting your gear.

You should be charging no less than $300 a day for the camera alone. Someone mentioned 50 bucks. That's ridiculous. Don't expect anyone to take you seriously if you are renting a HD camera for 50 bucks a day.
 
mrWr0ng said:
A producing credit is interesting, but I'd rather just operate the camera, because it's a credit more useful to me and makes the video worth having on my reel if it's good. If I A/C, I can't use the film on the reel, and the only thing i get out of it is possible networking if everybody's cool. But what kind of networking is it worth if all the word about me is, "This guy has a nice camera and he's a sucker who'll work for free."?
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An associate producer or co producer credit is the least they can offer you if you are offering your professional equipment for free and you don't know them. If it was a friend it might be different. Someone who you don't know will just take the free camera then you might not hear from them ever again.
 
Giving people your camera for free is just INSANE!!! For one thing, no one will ever take you seriously for the work you do if they just see you as a way for not having to pay the rental fee (which buy the way is $250 a day bare minimum) and the experience you'll get as an AC is uesful but not great if you want to be a DP.

I'm trying to get into the game too. I don't know if my method is the right way of doing thing but here's what I've been to for what it's worth: Try doing smaller stuff. Take jobs that normally would be done poorly and make a fantastic video with your HVX200. My first job after getting the camera was a promotional demo for a school's Fine and Performing Arts program. I did it cheap but I shot everything with my HVX200 and edited it. The school loved the results and now I've been hired to shoot their overall recuitment video (not great pay but it's a start and I'm putting together a porfolio). They also offered me a part time job in their AV center (which I had to turn down because of other obligations) and other people at the school have contacted me about individual jobs.

Also, since you probably have a lot of spare time, put together some stuff on your own to take to clients. When I first got the HVX200, I started shooting everything I could for practice. I went to all the pretty spots in my town and got some nice shots. It then occured to me the tourist commision might be interested so I put together two quick pieces (one with slow-mo shots of the community and the other some landscape shots, each about 3 minutes) and sent it to them. Sadly, they didn't bite, even though it was a lot better looking than the stuff they usually put out, but I was able to show these two pieces to the Preservation Technology Society in town and now it looks like I may well get a bid to do two training videos from them and possibly more if they like what they see (I've gotten word that they're currently drafting the first contracts).

What I'm describing isn't by any stretch of the imagination a huge success but it's a start and I'd rather do that than be on someone else's shoot working as an AC and having someone else use my very expensive camera for free. You're not gonna get the great jobs you want right away but it can pay to take the crappier ones and do a better job than people would have thought possible.
 
Yeah, I'm doing the same thing. I do work for the Red Cross, some other nonprofits in the area, I compete in film-making contests (took 2nd place in one a month ago, but my cinematography was not so great), and I'm getting a lot of good references from people I work for, who pass me on to others. I get calls from folks I don't even know, who want me to work for them.

I'm not going to give anybody my gear for free - I am sometimes willing to work for free if the project is right and the experience is what I want. There are a lot of great, talented, but poor filmmakers, I know because I'm one of them, so I don't mind throwing in for free for something that benefits people who deserve it.

I'm only a year and a half out of college, so it's not like I absolutely have to be up to my ears in clients, and it takes years of experience before one becomes a truly talented DP, and no matter how many weddings you shoot, corporate videos you do, a narrative film DP has to be working in film to build that network and have that demo that really applies to film.

Anyways, for those worried, I'm not bringing my gear to someone to just show up and use it. Definitely not happening. I've got enough of a demo that I'm not willing to let someone take advantage of me.
 
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