Competitive Professional Freelance "HD" Day RATE?

S

SAADIQ

Member
Guys,

I'd like your thoughts regarding competitive day rate pricing. I currently own two (2) HVX's with one (1) FS-100, one (1) Redrock M2, 2x 4gig P2 cards and 2x 8gig P2 cards. But, I'd like to be competitive and semi-negotiable in my market (Atlanta, GA/South East US) regarding my day rates.

Keeping in mind that most local (Atlanta to Miami) gigs have problems paying $500.00 daily because of the so called videographer that price out at $200.00 daily using lesser gear such as XL1's & ZU1's.

My current "HD" day rate is $700.00 per camera and project (i.e. music video) rates start @ $5,500.00. Do you think my rates are two high for this market? :dankk2:
 
No you charge what the company can afford...ask them the question first, how much have you allocated to the project, if they say 10K...step back take a deep breathe and say i think? i can do it for that, then close him, say something like, well if i can do it for that price shall we go ahead?? shut up and wait for an answer, you;ll be suprised. Hope this helps, dont forget its perception, if you charge 1K then they think there not getting the quality...
 
I was recently in Atlanta on a shoot. Cameras rented for the job were a few F900's, a couple of Z1U's and an HVX. Operators were being paid $500 a day. HVX rental was $300 a day with 4 x 8 gb cards, tripod, laptop and hard drive for downloads. I think I gave them a pretty good deal on that. So I think you are giving a great deal on that gear.
Keep in mnd that you don't really want to work with the clients that want you and your equipment for $200 a day. They are not worth it. There will always be the dangling carrot. You know the one, we've all seen the ads. "Hey work with us on this one for cheap/nothing and there will be plenty more work for you in the future." But they always forget to mention that the future work will also be for peanuts.!
 
I havent seen any rates for news stringers I'm thinking i will get my new a1 and change my rates per story what do you all think would be a good rate for news footage per station per story.
 
chaspdx said:
I havent seen any rates for news stringers I'm thinking i will get my new a1 and change my rates per story what do you all think would be a good rate for news footage per station per story.
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That will depend on the story, what station it is, how bad the station wants it and whether they will accept the footage from an A1.
 
First off, I'll disclaim that I've been doing this professionally for 30 years, owned my own company for 10 and am very bitter at those arseholes giving it away!

I'd rather sit at my studio then give it away. There are times I "think" about doing it cheaper, but then I get a job paying me $250 PER HOUR, (not day), then they call me back for another job. Then I get another call from someone the previous client talked to. I then realize, I'm holding the markets value and making a great living.

Once you give it away, you will always be working for peanuts.
Go after better clients and let those arseholes give it away.
We've had many of those "Cheap" companies go out of business over the last few years.

STOP WHORING OUT OUR SERVICES!
Sorry if I sound bitter, but NONE of my bills have gone down. Insurance, Studio rent, Electricity, Fuel, Cost of living, NOTHING!
Why the heck should my rates go down.
I'm holding my prices, I'm finding clients that will pay, but you better give the kind of service they won't find from the CHEAP video people.

Off my box. :)
 
TedRR said:
STOP WHORING OUT OUR SERVICES!
Sorry if I sound bitter, but NONE of my bills have gone down. Insurance, Studio rent, Electricity, Fuel, Cost of living, NOTHING!
Why the heck should my rates go down.
I'm holding my prices, I'm finding clients that will pay, but you better give the kind of service they won't find from the CHEAP video people.

Off my box. :)
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AMEN. It seems everyone with a camera is suddenly a shooter. The fact that you have a garden hose doesn't make you a fireman!

And nowadays, all the clients "tell" the producer what they will pay. I don't remember calling a plumber when my kitchen was flooding and telling him I'd pay him $xxx for the job. I asked him his rate!

Here're my rates in Denver.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SD RATES
Half-Day Shoot: $550
Full-Day Shoot: $950
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]HD RATES[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Half-DayShoot: $825
Full-Day Shoot: $1425[/FONT]
EDITOR RATES
$100/Hour[/FONT]
​
 
Thanks Guy,

I see that I'm not alone regarding this subject! TedRR, I totally agree with your commits regarding giving our talents/skills and or services away for peanuts! I'm also a Professional/Owner with over 15yr in this audio/video business and I'm motivated by networking with quality like minded Videographers/DP's and or Editors to create quality projects.

However, money is a must and I'll be damn if I whore my skills, talents and gear out for B.S. peanuts. I just wanted to make sure that my current rates were reasonable and by the look of Kenneth's Denver rates, I'm very cheep. Please keep the commits coming
 
I am going to slightly disagree with Ted...sometimes it might be worth it to lower your rates to get a high profile job that could turn into more work down the road. I am NOT saying that you should give a client a good deal the first time and then turn around and raise your rates the next time. What I'm talking about is the exposure. Accept a LITTLE less for a high-profile job that will be seen by other potential clients. Do a kick-ass job, and maintain your rates for that client.

FYI, my 1-cam rates have been as little as $500 and as much as $1800/day.
 
I think those high rates are not for everybody and every place. Here in The Netherlands you will be out of bussiness very soon when you charge $250 per hour, it is more like $80 - $100 per hour for the top performers. Normal rate here is about $40 - $60 per hour (excl. 19% VAT).
 
I have a car, that does not make me Michael Schumacher...

I have a car, that does not make me Michael Schumacher...

Kenneth said:
AMEN. It seems everyone with a camera is suddenly a shooter. The fact that you have a garden hose doesn't make you a fireman!

And nowadays, all the clients "tell" the producer what they will pay. I don't remember calling a plumber when my kitchen was flooding and telling him I'd pay him $xxx for the job. I asked him his rate!

Here're my rates in Denver.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SD RATES
Half-Day Shoot: $550
Full-Day Shoot: $950
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]HD RATES[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Half-DayShoot: $825
Full-Day Shoot: $1425[/FONT]
EDITOR RATES
$100/Hour[/FONT]
​
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I'm in the process of working out rates for myself, here in Phoenix (similar region and market). Although SD vs HD is usaually the dividing line between fee structures, I'm skeptical that clients are going to pay a differential between (SD) DVCPRO 50 and HDDVCPRO, given that both are P2 formats. It's just a matter of changing settings. That could be tough for a client to swallow.

Also, at what point are you going to get raised eyebrows for those rates given that they are in Beta SP, Digibeta, full sized DVCPRO 50 territory ? - For a camera that with P2/ FIrestore/ fill in blank is in the 7K-8K price range rather than 30k and up for the other formats ?

I'd like to hear your thoughts and musings as I'm going back and forth over my day rates and how the introduction of the HVX's capabilities should affect them. I certainly don't want to short change myself nor price myself out of the market. FWIW, $1425.00 for a HVX day rate would be a very tough sell here. Are you having luck in Denver with that day rate ? Is that for ENG/EFP or film production?

Current EFP/ENG DVX-100A rates with monitor, (6) head light package, tripod, audio.

half day- $525.00
full day- $700.00

Proposed HVX-200 rates with same package plus powerbook/ external HD's.

half- $675.00
Full- $900.00

P.S. The fireman and hose analogy is the one I use as well. ;-)
 
Everyone i know sets labor rates and gear rates separately. This is important if you find you may have rented your gear out to someone else and suddenly need to subrent. Also I use many kinds of cameras that have different costs.
Labor in SF area could be anywhere between $450 (bottom)- $800+ for most shooters. I try to average $700 these days but that is flexible both up and down.
For an HVX package with 16 GIGs its about $400 and monitor is extra depending on how much they want to spend. Basic lighting kit & audio I through in for $100+ more (radios extra). 17" panny $150 unless they get a break to $100. Do they also want a Marshall?

Half days are 70% labor only - remember you can't subrent a camera for a half day rate.

Those are basic professional rates in the SF Bay Area .(Adults with homes and families) We tend to be a little higher than the rest of the country because we are so accomplished, artistic, witty and charming here - also the price of living is higher.

I realize a lot of younger guys are probably cheaper, but this what experienced producers expect to pay.

Docs tend to get a bit of a break, and for low budg features all bets are off, its a race to the poor house. Who wants that reel so bad that they'll starve and bend over.

Everubodies flexible for the right people and project thopugh.

- Lenny Levy
 
That's a great question I've been pondering.
How do we set a rate for HD when the client sees the same camera doing both?
Or do we let another opportunity pass to get a decent rate and just say HD isnt worth a dime more? :(
 
TedRR said:
How do we set a rate for HD when the client sees the same camera doing both?
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I think it would be reasonable to submit to the client that although it may mean literally the flip of a switch to go from SD to HD in aquisition that the HD rates actually cover the cost of HD overhead and that the SD rates do not necessarily afford the costs of aquiring HD equipment in the first place.

In other words, it can be cited that the SD rates actually really reflect the costs of using SD equipment and you are choosing to use your HD equipment in SD mode because your HD rates have afforded that to the end customer.
 
Rate is very much dependent on region. The South is NOT SF Bay area. A Good PRO (I HAVE 15yrs of experience) rate is $500/day just for me. Then you add for the camera package I charge $250Day for the camera as long as I AM VIDEOGRAPHER including basic light and accessory package and SD monitor. Tapes are extra. Whether or not you shoot in HD or not this is a $5000 camera, just like the other cameras in its class. Do Not forget it. Regarless of what we want to believe this is a PROsumer camera, just look at the vast amount of I will call the "emerging" users that use this cam. Clients are not stupid. The HVX is a great camera but it is not the 900 which I also shoot with, and one of the downsides to this cam is that it loks like a camcorder to many clients. The standard day cam rental is between 1/50 to 1/25 cost of camera per day and gear is usually 4 day week. Audio, outside of camera mic is additional. HD is an opportunity to add. Firestore I charge $75, maybe 100/day, P2s also additional, HDs, laptop...etc. HD gives you lots of chances to upsell. Also extra filterpacks and soforth are great to upsell.
Of course it will VARY according to location. I also produce and will sub projects out. I know how much most will pay. You can of course charge more to final clients than to producers and production companies. In the end it is your choice. You chage what you can get. But dont be upset if you start losing clients if you try to charge 900 prices for the 200.
As far as half days, I go 66%, but I know that there are lots of people that just wont do it. Half day for me is up to 4hrs.
 
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John Froton said:
I think it would be reasonable to submit to the client that although it may mean literally the flip of a switch to go from SD to HD in aquisition that the HD rates actually cover the cost of HD overhead and that the SD rates do not necessarily afford the costs of aquiring HD equipment in the first place.

In other words, it can be cited that the SD rates actually really reflect the costs of using SD equipment and you are choosing to use your HD equipment in SD mode because your HD rates have afforded that to the end customer.
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My reference was to the gent from Denver. I realize the regional /market differences. Labor and gear comprise total fee.

That's the rub- there isn't much difference between SD and HD overhead if both are recorded to the same media, and on the same camera. Granted there may be a bit more digital file handling costs due to the greater space that HD uses compared to DVCPRO 50, but it's a relatively small difference. I'm currently using a SD monitor, but if the client requires HD, I'll certainly pass on the rental to the client. Other than that, I can't see much difference in overhead between the two.

As great as the HVX's image and capabilities are, it's still a fraction of the price of it's larger, older cousins. This is a strength and a limiting factor on rates as well. I just have to think that the price comparison between the HVX and Digibeta, Beta, Varicam is in the clients mind. It's certainly in mine.

P.S. My half day rate is %75 of the full day rate ( gear and labor) . Five hour, portal to portal. P2 is included in price, as is onboard mic.
 
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Actually, I just did a gig in Phoenix for a corporate-type, and that's the highest daily rate I've charged...like has been said, it's gonna be different rates for different types of customers and clients. Guess that's where you have to pick and choose what type of work you wanna do. You can't expect Granny Mae to fork over $250/hr to a time capsule interview, at the same time a higher-end corporate-type would laugh at me if I said I was only gonna charge them $400/day.

There's lots of types of work out there, and I think it's wise to adjust.
 
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