HVX 720P to Film Transfer Questions.. Need Pro Advice.

Crazy_Ideas

Crazy_Ideas

Active member
HVX 720P to Film Transfer Questions.. Need Pro Advice.

Concerning 720P to Film Transfer for Movie Theater Viewing...

A) Does it still have to be Uprezzed further per frame, if so what frame size?

B) Film recorder houses, how much for this transfer to film service?

C) What standards are there to be met to be shown in any theater?

D) Audio, what digital format do theaters accept audio to accompany the film footage?

Any further knowledge on this subject would be apreciated, lets stick to the topic.

Thanks,

Crazy_Ideas
 
Crazy_Ideas said:
HVX 720P to Film Transfer Questions.. Need Pro Advice.

Concerning 720P to Film Transfer for Movie Theater Viewing...

A) Does it still have to be Uprezzed further per frame, if so what frame size?

B) Film recorder houses, how much for this transfer to film service?

C) What standards are there to be met to be shown in any theater?

D) Audio, what digital format do theaters accept audio to accompany the film footage?

Any further knowledge on this subject would be apreciated, lets stick to the topic.

Thanks,

Crazy_Ideas
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Well if you have the crazy idea that you want to shoot your low budget film on the HVX, then hope on the off chance it will get picked up by a distributor that wants a 35mm print, then the best advice would be to call some film labs in your area that have done this before and get a quote from them. They will also be able to advise on the best possible format for delivery to them. Personally I would shoot 1080/24PA for a film out, so as to have the best possible resolution to start with. They would also be able to advise on the audio deliverables. Chances are that would be 5.1 stems on DA-88's, or hard drives of Protools sessions.
 
So 1080P is better than 720P.. When digital to film transfer is done, do they transfer to 35mm film or bigger?
 
Crazy_Ideas said:
A) Does it still have to be Uprezzed further per frame, if so what frame size?
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Depends on the transfer house; typically they'd go from either 1080p or 2k. So it's better to shoot on 1080p in the first place.

B) Film recorder houses, how much for this transfer to film service?
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They all vary. DVFilm charges about $450/minute to transfer from HD.

C) What standards are there to be met to be shown in any theater?
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Any competent film transfer house will deliver a 35mm release print compatible with projection systems worldwide.

D) Audio, what digital format do theaters accept audio to accompany the film footage?
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Typically they don't. The audio is recorded onto the film itself as an optical sound track, not submitted to the theater separately. You'd send your audio files to the film transfer house and they'll integrate the audio into your release print.

Any further knowledge on this subject would be apreciated, lets stick to the topic.
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Further knowledge: 99% (or more) of people who intend to do a film transfer never do. It's expensive, and largely unnecessary. You don't need to transfer to film to exhibit at practically any festival in the world anymore; they all support digital tape projection almost without exception. You likely won't need a film transfer for domestic theatrical release because the numbers are staggeringly against an indie picture getting distributed theatrically. You would need a film transfer for foreign theatrical release, and the odds against that are about as high, or higher, as they are towards getting a US theatrical release.

And it costs bucks. From HD, a 100-minute film transfer will cost about $45,000. Some people say "don't worry about it, the distributor will pick up that cost", but frankly, distributors are not in the business to spend their own money. If you had two comparable pictures from two different filmmakers, and one was already on 35mm and the other needed to have $45,000 dumped into it to make a one-copy release print, which one do you think the distributor is going to pick up? Easy: the one he doesn't have to spend an additional $45,000 on.

Film transfer is a pipe dream for the extremely overwhelmingly vast majority of independent filmmakers. DVD is the release/distribution medium most likely for indies, and DVD release has no need of a film transfer.

Basically any of the modern HD or HDV camcorders will do an acceptable job for film transfer, and for SD, a DVX or XL2 can do fine. It won't look like it was shot on 35mm film, but an HVX or XLH1 or HD100 will look good enough that the audience won't be distracted by the look.

Never shoot 30P for a film transfer, that's basically suicide. Only shoot 24P or, in EU/Oceanic territories, 25P. Interlaced is inferior to progressive for transfer, and 24p/25p is ideal for film transfer.
 
Crazy_Ideas said:
So 1080P is better than 720P.. When digital to film transfer is done, do they transfer to 35mm film or bigger?
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35mm is the universal international release print standard.
 
Crazy_Ideas said:
So 1080P is better than 720P...
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Unless you're talking about the HVX200, where the difference is barely noticable.

My opinion is that 720p is the sweetspot resolution for the HVX. More than that and you're just adding more compression artifacts to scaled-up pixels.

But this is the real wisdom:

Barry_Green said:
...99% (or more) of people who intend to do a film transfer never do...
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Couldn't agree more Barry!

-Stu
 
Barry_Green said:
If you had two comparable pictures from two different filmmakers, and one was already on 35mm and the other needed to have $45,000 dumped into it to make a one-copy release print, which one do you think the distributor is going to pick up? Easy: the one he doesn't have to spend an additional $45,000 on.
Click to expand...

I agree with Barry except for this statement. If a film has profit-making potential--that's all any distributor is ever looking for--$45 grand is chump change.
If the next Clerks, or Blair Witch or My Big Fat Greek Wedding is showing without a film transfer, and they see the audience lined up, buzzing about it, laughing and selling out theaters at a festival, they will buy it and blow it up.

Because story is king in this business. (Oh, and making money, too.)

Note to Crazy Ideas: Don't let the percentages discourage you. You have to go for it all in this business. Tell a great story and sell your film! Clerks and El Mariachi both looked like hell on first screening--they both got distributors and film blowups. Clerks got additional money for pop music too. I would suggest you keep your sights high.

It's not hard to sell films to Hollywood--it's just hard to write, produce, cast, direct and edit something great, something that will find an audience. When you do that, the distributors will take notice. You're not creating films for distributors, but for audiences. Make your Primer, or Memento or In the Company of Men and you'll do fine. (Then you can report back here about how the blowup went!)

I'm shooting a feature film with the HVX right now at 720/24p and I intend to have it break out/get distributed/blowup. The camera is great, but the story matters more. (There've been plenty of features distributed that were shot with the DVX or even the Sony VXs. See November for a film shot on DVX.)

Spend a lot more of your time on planning and writing, casting and rehearsal. That's where the magic happens. Production is just acquisition of the elements you've planned. If you're all pretty pictures and no substance, that's never gonna fly. (Hollywood can make those themselves--and they do.)

Just my $.02!
 
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I had a simmilar question - who in town is doing filmouts from the HVX footage. So far, no one. I'll quote the last email I got from one of the more popular places in Hollywood (Fotokem):

"We are not going to support the P2 cards at this time. We have done some tape to film outputs, however, the tapes had to be cloned over to D5 at other facilities first. Apparently request for outputs from this camera have been few, and not worth the initial investment to support the format."

Very disappointing.
 
ProLost said:
My opinion is that 720p is the sweetspot resolution for the HVX. More than that and you're just adding more compression artifacts to scaled-up pixels.

-Stu
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That is interesting Stu, can you please expand on that, any particular observation, etc? Thanks.
 
ProLost said:
My opinion is that 720p is the sweetspot resolution for the HVX. More than that and you're just adding more compression artifacts to scaled-up pixels.
-Stu
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Stu is your opinion based on fact or just what you see on your monitor (whatever type that may be)?
I could be wrong but AFAIK the DVCPro HD compression in the HVX is the same whether shooting 720 or 1080. In 720/24PN it just takes up less space per file as it is only recording the 24 native frames where as in 1080 it is always laying down 60 frames regardless of the chosen frame rate.
 
valuable info Barry. Film labs being resistant to new tech is like when DVD post house initially had to get a glass master for DVD replication. Now you just send them any old DVD and they'll replicate the hell out of them... There was also major resistance in the beginning to DVDSP and now that's not an issue anymore.


I for one am thankful to not have to make another film print. It was so friggin depressing to watch the print everytime through the projector and see more scrathes and hairs and muck all over it. It was only pristine one time and suffered major blemishes each and every other time it went through.... Enough to make you cry!


Bring on the digital projection....
 
ProLost said:
Unless you're talking about the HVX200, where the difference is barely noticable.

My opinion is that 720p is the sweetspot resolution for the HVX. More than that and you're just adding more compression artifacts to scaled-up pixels.
Click to expand...

Actually the Image is sampled at 1080 and down-rezed to 720.
the image may look better to you but like all things that require eyeballing,
it's mostly relative.

Technically speaking though the camera delivers higher resolution in 1080.
 
Dear Barry,

Thank you,

for taking the time to answer all of my questions!

You are the 'Beckon of Light' in this forum, your knowledge you share well.

And Kenneth, thank you too for your inspiring words!

Crazy_Ideas (Rob)

So now with Digital Projection, on what medium would you present a movie to the theaters for viewing, DVD?
 
Yes, 1080 is best for film transfer, but I wouldn't worried too much about that, I have worked on commercials that were uprez from D1 to film with spectacular result, and that was years ago, it's probably even better now. The chances of a small budget film shot in HD to be picked up for theatrical release are very slim and in most cases the wrong way to go. The smarter way to do it is to push for television release in both the national and international market. A small budget film here might be seen as a big budget in different part of the world.

The advantages are, assuming the film is pretty good: you'll make more money, you'll get a lot of buyers from different studios, tv network and international buyers to see your film and you could with a bit of chance, get some interest for theatrical release as well. (This is exactly what happened for the last movie I worked on, shot in HD). There are many venues such as the American Film Market, which actually is happening right now in L.A, where you can sell small budget films. Also the DVD market can be very lucrative as well.
 
ProLost said:
More than that and you're just adding more compression artifacts to scaled-up pixels.
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Completely backwards. 1080 is the proper resolution, 720 is scaled-down. And 1080 shows much LESS compression artifacts than 1080. Look for Jim Arthurs' excellent comparison to see how much better 1080 is than 720.
 
I think people fail to realize that film outs are rare... EVEN FOR PROJECTS SHOT ON FILM! Want a film out? Make your movie marketable. I dont think Jesus Camp was made with a film out in mind...



ash =o)
 
I agree with Barry 100%. In addition, if you wanted to find out about an easy transfer of edited HVX200 footage -> film, including costs, DVFILM has some info, including what format to shoot in and how to get the footage to them. .

http://www.dvfilm.com/services.htm

Marcos there is also a great source of information. Specifically for the HVX200-> Film. .

http://www.dvfilm.com/hvx200/

Good luck !
 
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How do you go about shopping your work to the TV networks?

Do they pay you for the one viewing?

Interesting..

Wich network to go to first?

Do you need an Entertainment Lawyer?
 
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