Side By Side Comparison: Artist vs. Director (regarding music video!)

Jeff Ray

Jeff Ray

Active member
So a little back story on this video. First of all, I did this video for free essentially. The artist paid for us to travel down to Port Arthur, paid for our hotel bills and our food, but that was about it.

I agreed to do this video because a) I had never shot a rap artist before, so I thought it might be fun, and b) the artist promised a sold-out crowd at his show, 15,000+ people AND he would be performing with Pimp C and Bun B, who I knew (and I don't even listen to rap music except Jay-Z) so I figured it would be a cool experience.

Now the terms and agreements were for a LIVE video. Meaning I would film the show and follow him around for an hour to get some B-roll to intercut. This was NOT suppose to be an actual "music video" per se. We travel down to Port Arthur (I live in Austin) the night before and get a flat tire at 2 in the morning right as we pull up to the hotel. After getting three hours of sleep, we meet the artist at 8 in the morning and proceed to follow him around for EIGHT hours (not one hour like it was agreed upon) and he takes us to about 12 locations with his entourage that consisted of about 30 very intimidating guys.

The artist basically took to all these unattractive, pointless locations simply to get free stuff (I'm assuming he promised them a cameo in the video in return for free merchandise, as he was very adamant about having all these people in his video). Cell phone stores, clothing stores, liquor stores, tattoo shops, restaurants, etc.

Being a skinny, 19-year old white kid from the suburbs, I tried my hardest to tell him that this wasn't what I agreed upon when I told him I'd do this, yet he avoided in direct answers and pretty much kept doing what he was doing for the whole day.

Seeing as this was b-roll footage, I usually go for fly-on-the-wall, documentary-style footage, not him actually rapping into the camera with his posse in the background holding up gang signs and bling. So he essentially exploited me and instead of getting a live video, he got a full-on music video more or less because...

when we arrived at the show later that night (suppose to be 15,000+ people in this huge stadium remember?) there were approximately 50 people there. No Pimp C or Bun B and 50 people. Needless to say, we were terribly vexed.

After this entire debacle, we go back to Austin where I proceed to cut his video together. The artist calls wanting to travel up to Austin, stay with us at our tiny apartment and work with me on the "edit" till it is to his satisfaction. I tell him it is not necessary and respectfully decline his offer. I cut his video together using barely any of the actual live footage and submit my edit to him via the internet. The artist calls back saying he is very displeased with the edit, color, etc. Already in the hole for his project, I calmly take the time to respect his wishes and fix the problems he had with the video. I submit the new edit via internet. Still not happy and now prefers the old edit, but not really, because he wants to combine the new edits, leave some of the old stuff and new stuff. Which sounds easier than it actually is because it is so hard to understand what the artist is saying on the phone because the artist speaks extremely broken english and I believe to be illiterate from his emails. Finally I give him the "final cut-no questions" and it's over. I'm left with a video I am not happy with whatsoever (both my version and his version, but moreso his version), a feeling "hey, I just got creatively raped! Awesome!" and a loss of money considering the hours put into this video (he promised additional payment due to my efforts, which I doubt will come to fruition).

SOOOOoOOooooo...thats the story. I have two links: his version and my version. I thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion (with visual aids!) as I'm sure many people on his board have experienced similar experiences.

And yes, I'm aware it is, in the end, the artist's video, but why come to me in the first place after seeing my work and then attempt to direct the video themselves and second guess my judgements?

I just needed to vent...so thank you for listening to this incredibly long post and tell me your thoughts on this subject!

The Links:

His Version:http://suitedproductions.com/hezeleo_countryslang_final.mov

My Version: http://www.suitedproductions.com/hezeleo_countryslang_version.mov

Discuss!
 
I don't undertsand your post... So the guy asked for more thne you were prepared to do... You agree to a deal -- whatever that is and if you don't like then you bail. You didn't so still since you are doing him a favor it should be your opinion that matter smore than his still you gave him an uper hand by showing that he's got as much say into it as you do.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
I don't undertsand your post... So the guy asked for more thne you were prepared to do... You agree to a deal -- whatever that is and if you don't like then you bail. You didn't so still since you are doing him a favor it should be your opinion that matter smore than his still you gave him an uper hand by showing that he's got as much say into it as you do.
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Yeah I really fudged it up. I agree with what you said. Stupid passive personality...
 
if youre just a skinny 19 yr old white kid from the burbs, how'd you get hooked up with rappers from port arthur ? (my aunt lives there btw)

the vid aint bad.... sure as hell aint bad for a free vid! haha, sucks you got hosed but you have to act like a professional in order to be treated like one, a lesson learned
 
I feel for you. Dear lord, what an unbelievable poser. I wanted to watch both videos all the way through, to see the complete picture. But hearing that song twice in a row? (shudder)

I do feel that "his" edit started off a bit better. Your version seemed a little slow at the beginning, for maybe the first 15 seconds. Other than that, your version was definitely better. The color made it feel much more unified. The in-car shots in his version just feel lifeless, and emphasize his nobody status. Come to think of it, I feel sorry for him, too.

The best thing you can do is edit your own version (shorter, please!) that you're happy with. Lose the shots of people talking on the cell phone, desperately trying to look important. Lose the superimposed image at 0:27, it doesn't really fit. Keep the shot of the completely empty stadium, that is hilarious!!

Honestly, if you can just trim it down a bit, you have an excellent piece for your reel. This is your video now, it's no longer his. You can make the best of it and come out ahead. I hope to see an updated version. As for Hellzena? He's stuck with his self-delusions and craptastic machismo for the foreseeable future.
 
i don't post much on here, because i'm still saving for my dvx, but i used to produce for a local emcee where i live. he was cool, but every now and then my partner and i would get hit up for work from other people. we did a lot of work out of pocket with promises of getting our stuff out to more people. promises that never came to fruition.

the last thing we did before strictly sticking with people we know, was a show that was headlined by DJ Starscream (Sid from Slipknot). we were told that our emcee would get time on stage before Sid went on, and could perform what he wanted. this promise as the others went unfilled. it was not Sid's fault, he was being payed to be there to draw more people in for the promoter. the experiences i dealt with during that time really soured my ambition for a while.

anyways, if there's one thing i learned, it's don't let people f**k you. in other terms, learn to be an asshole. be professional for as long as possible, but when push comes to shove, become a junkyard dog about your work. i understand you felt intimidated. next time you find yourself in that situation, take someone with you. someone you know can handle themselves, and won't take any shi*. i'm rambling, but i just wanted to tell you not to let this experience discourage you. not every client will be easy to deal with, but not every one will treat you like their ***** either. you're young and there's plenty more work out there.

p.s.: i liked your cut better
 
Hi.

The first edit is tighter in the intro in regard to the story/artist, whereas the second edit kind of rambles a bit for the first 15-20 sec. From then on it really is just a matter of taste, if you like the use of the coloured filters then you will lean toward the second edit, if you prefer the more organic look then you may lean toward the first edit.
Overall, if your 19 and getting this kind of result, you should be pretty happy either way, as your shooting and editing are finding the mark.

On a different note. I don't think that posting/venting your grievances on a public forum is the way to go. As the other party (the artist) may have a different version of the events, and they aren't here to defend themselves, it only makes you look (as we say in Australia) "a bit of a winger mate". It's often hard to find the balance between your artistic integrity and your professional integrity. Blowing up about the shortcomings of his verses mine blah...blah...blah, may make you feel that you are protecting your artistic integrity, but imho, it ain't professional.

I hope you sort it out.
 
peter orland said:
Hi.

The first edit is tighter in the intro in regard to the story/artist, whereas the second edit kind of rambles a bit for the first 15-20 sec. From then on it really is just a matter of taste, if you like the use of the coloured filters then you will lean toward the second edit, if you prefer the more organic look then you may lean toward the first edit.
Overall, if your 19 and getting this kind of result, you should be pretty happy either way, as your shooting and editing are finding the mark.

On a different note. I don't think that posting/venting your grievances on a public forum is the way to go. As the other party (the artist) may have a different version of the events, and they aren't here to defend themselves, it only makes you look (as we say in Australia) "a bit of a winger mate". It's often hard to find the balance between your artistic integrity and your professional integrity. Blowing up about the shortcomings of his verses mine blah...blah...blah, may make you feel that you are protecting your artistic integrity, but imho, it ain't professional.

I hope you sort it out.
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It really isn't the artistic integrity. This wasn't a piece I was planning on putting on my reel and something I'd promote, I just thought it would be an experience I should get under my belt. Which I guess is why I ended up so frustrated, since I looked at this as a fun little side project that turned into an extremely aggravating experience that I didn't feel was necessary.

And yeah, I understand what you said about professionalism, which I certainly am, but I just thought I'd share it with you guys and here some different opinions and viewpoints, not about my story, but in general.

Thanks for the comments.
 
I just clicked on the two links without looking to see who did which one, so I wouldn't be biased, and I could instantly tell which one was yours. It looked much better than his, and maybe you can use some of the good footage for your portfolio, that way you can get something out of it. :)
 
Don't deal with hustlers, they are just a problem.

Bait and switch, promising all sorts of stuff, and you said the guy traveled around trying get free stuff?

He's a dime street hustler, who thinks hes got what it takes to play on the large playing field.

Walk on those gig's cause life is to short to be exploited.


-- Dean
 
Jeff Ray said:
I agreed to do this video because a) I had never shot a rap artist before, so I thought it might be fun,
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I've done like 60 videos as a 2nd AC/Loader/DP in so FL, and 99% of them were rap.. THEY ALL PAY SH#@ and treat you like $hiT. But at least u get paid on those..

As for FUN, I guess you learned your learned that it's fun for THEM and their FRIENDS, but not you and your crew.

If you agree to do something for free, do that and ONLY what else YOU want to do.. So OF COURSE they will try and get as much out of you till you say NO.. WHY NOT?

You did a nice job.. Love the car shots.. The song is SOOO BAD I turned my volume off.

Keep up the good work, and even though it SUCKED for you, YOU LEARNED A LOT! That was your pay.. And you have something for your reel.. It's the only way DUDE!!
 
Justin Marx said:
I've done like 60 videos as a 2nd AC/Loader/DP in so FL, and 99% of them were rap.. THEY ALL PAY SH#@ and treat you like $hiT. But at least u get paid on those..

As for FUN, I guess you learned your learned that it's fun for THEM and their FRIENDS, but not you and your crew.

If you agree to do something for free, do that and ONLY what else YOU want to do.. So OF COURSE they will try and get as much out of you till you say NO.. WHY NOT?

You did a nice job.. Love the car shots.. The song is SOOO BAD I turned my volume off.

Keep up the good work, and even though it SUCKED for you, YOU LEARNED A LOT! That was your pay.. And you have something for your reel.. It's the only way DUDE!!
Click to expand...


Yeah you guys are right. I'll just have to use it for a couple shots in my real and chalk it up to experience. And you're right Justin, lesson learned.
 
peter orland said:
On a different note. I don't think that posting/venting your grievances on a public forum is the way to go. As the other party (the artist) may have a different version of the events, and they aren't here to defend themselves, it only makes you look (as we say in Australia) "a bit of a winger mate". It's often hard to find the balance between your artistic integrity and your professional integrity. Blowing up about the shortcomings of his verses mine blah...blah...blah, may make you feel that you are protecting your artistic integrity, but imho, it ain't professional.
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I think it's great that he posted his SH#TY experience here. What better way to find solace than from your peers? The artist sounds like an A$$HOLe and people can learn from Jeff's experience. Q: Why do we study history. A: So we don't do stupid things twice. It sounds like the artist is illiterate and would not be able to defend himself here anyways. History is written by those in power. Take the power back Jeff. There are too many people taking advantage of videographers in general.

I do however think that it might have been more beneficial for Jeff to post the clips in a different thread and not mention the artists name in this thread. That way he could get our feedback without burning any bridges even though he might feel justified from just taking it in the rear from these guys.

PS: If you want to get revenge find all the "BAD" angles and make a mockumentary music video and post it on YouTube. The empty stadium is a $MONEY$ shot. Just Joking of course.

I just felt like sturring up some controversy.

-Kevin
 
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Kevin Briggs said:
I think it's great better than your peers. We study history So we don't do stupid things. It sounds like the artist might have been more beneficial for Jeff. That he might feel justified from just taking it in the rear from these guys.

PS: If you want post it on YouTube.

-Kevin
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:beer:....
 
Oh Jeff Jeff.. first off.. good to see you my man. Been a while since trhe good ole studentfilm days. As for your experience.. yes you can chaulk it up as just that.. experience, but in the future here is a thought. You cut a vid with almost all live footage, toos in a couple b-roll shots and when he bitches you say "Hey you want a music video thats fine.. I think we have enough here to do it, but that takes labor and increases cost which was not agreed upon." Her doesnt wanna pay, you don't cut. He tries to say he owns the footage or his likeness ect 9and I am reffering to excuses "artists" we have worked with give) you remind him possesion is 9-10ths of the law, and if he gets nasty you can just as easily flush the footage from your system never to be seen again. This is not uncommon though, so you just have to deal with it and it bassically only happens in the "cheap and or free" music video category. I literally have 4 music videos on my system that have never seen the light of day because the respective artists/labels have not paid their debts. Don't get me wrong, on the bigger level they come at you with ridiculous changes, but they pay you for them.

It's funny watching your cut and his I can only imagine the none sense that came out of this guys mouth about the color treatment, (which was nice BTW) and I can hear him, "You got me leavin da hotel half way in da video. I was just outside it befoe. That stuff gotta happen like it happened man."

Sigh.. Good luck man, keep us posted on new happenings.
-Tizzy
 
Two things I noticed in your video.
Nearing the end of your version, did anyone notice the white kid walking around?

untitled2.jpg



The empty stadium is pretty funny.

untitled1.jpg
 
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Haha the empty stadium is beyond funny!

But i think the worst thing that happened to you other than getting ripped was having to listen to that song again and again and again during the edit.
 
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