Did a 1080p/720p comparrison

SurJones

SurJones

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I thought I would see if I could see a difference, I will admit not much. :)
 

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Those are screen grabs from the candy wrappered MXF's Full Res from QuickTime. I shot 720p/24p and 1080/24pa.

Where do notice the 1080p being sharper?
 
look at the grove to the left of the V. there are small machine marks in it. they are more defined in 1080. down res the 1080 to 720, and they suddenly pop sharper.
 
SurJones said:
Those are screen grabs from the candy wrappered MXF's Full Res from QuickTime. I shot 720p/24p and 1080/24pa.

Where do notice the 1080p being sharper?
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On larger screens.
 
Looking at the two images on the screen, I looks like the one on the right is sharper. I wish I had 16 gig cards so I could shoot 1080P. But 720PN is awesome still.
 
TimurCivan said:
look at the grove to the left of the V. there are small machine marks in it. they are more defined in 1080. down res the 1080 to 720, and they suddenly pop sharper.
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The scratches pop out as well. Albeit not that much, but they do.
 
But using the 30% estimate the three 960x540 sensors will generate a 1248 x 702 image (pretty closes to standard 1280x720.) Up-scaling this to 1080 doesn't gain any detail, it just uses more disk space.
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Well, in the best possible circumstances one supposedly can get 50% more resolution and thus a size of 1440x810. Still, this estimate which you have provided goes pretty much with what I've seen in my own stuff and goes in accordance with Barry's test that shows that, with both cameras using the same amount of edge enhacment, the HVX200 in 1080p downconverted will give just as sharp an image as the HD100 with it's full raster 1280x720 chips and recording. This once again seems to go in line with the general feeling that the HVX200 is best described as a mini-Varicam (which personally I think is quite nice). I still don't get why Panasonic won't go ahead make a slightly altered Varicam with pixel shift and 1080p output.
 
DavidBeier said:
I still don't get why Panasonic won't go ahead make a slightly altered Varicam with pixel shift and 1080p output.
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they dont need to. Tell me you wouldnt jump at the chance to shoot 720P varicam?
 
TimurCivan said:
they dont need to. Tell me you wouldnt jump at the chance to shoot 720P varicam?
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They do need to make a 1080p Varicam...and hopefully they will.

A film out at 1080 is much better then 720, and this thinking still leans people over to Sony for larger projects.

If panasonic would come out with a 1080p Varicam...well, good bye Sony. And I would want them to hit their ass on the door on the way out.
 
The 1080 image has much more fine detail than the 720. When looking at delicate scratch details in the metal surface, the difference is very apparent. When I upsample the 720 image to 1080 in Photoshop with the best resample algorithms plus some sharpening applied to compensate for the native lower res, it still misses the fine detail of the 1080 image. If the imagers on the HVX200 were of higher resolution this difference would me more dramatic, but as it is, 1080 delivers substantial finer detail than 720 recording.

Probably wishful thinking from my part, but... the day the HVX is upgraded with full 1920x1080 larger imagers (no pixel shift crap), is fitted with a better lens and records in 1080p with at least the multiple frame rates currently available in 720p, then, we'll be close to the definitive ultra-portable HD cam. Till then I love the HVX as it is :)
 
The Sarlacc said:
They do need to make a 1080p Varicam...and hopefully they will.

A film out at 1080 is much better then 720, and this thinking still leans people over to Sony for larger projects.

If panasonic would come out with a 1080p Varicam...well, good bye Sony. And I would want them to hit their ass on the door on the way out.
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i agree, but remeber the varicam has been out for along time. and its aging. Atthe time, there was 1080i and 720P. 1080P is relatively new isnt it?

so the next cam will probably be a 1080P camera. not sure about the VAri framerates though. Too much band width in 1080?
 
I don't think so Tim. I believe the Sony Cine Alta has been around since Once Upon a Time in Mexico (2002) and has been able to do 720p. I've heard several people tell me that for film out, they all prefer 1080p and that they'd rather use the CineAlta, even though they don't like it as much as a camera (Pansonic does things like color, gamma, and variable framerates better) because it can do 1080p and the Varicam can't. The Varicam certainly dominates much of the TV production I see but I really have heard of many major films being shot on it. It's a shame because I think with just some pixel shift it would get a good enough 1080p image to satisfy most pros and perhaps make a serious dent in the Cine Alta market.
 
DavidBeier said:
I don't think so Tim. I believe the Sony Cine Alta has been around since Once Upon a Time in Mexico (2002) and has been able to do 720p. I've heard several people tell me that for film out, they all prefer 1080p and that they'd rather use the CineAlta, even though they don't like it as much as a camera (Pansonic does things like color, gamma, and variable framerates better) because it can do 1080p and the Varicam can't. The Varicam certainly dominates much of the TV production I see but I really have heard of many major films being shot on it. It's a shame because I think with just some pixel shift it would get a good enough 1080p image to satisfy most pros and perhaps make a serious dent in the Cine Alta market.
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Can you clarify any of what you just said?

Cine Alta is a camera system, not a camera.

The Sony F900, F950 and are 1080i (not p) cameras, and yes i believe they will do 720p.( Its been so long since I've used them that I can't remember.) They have been around long before Once Upon a time in Mexico. The F900 came out in 1998/9. The F950 came out right before Episode III. I'm not so sure the Varicam dominates in TV. A lot of rental houses bought in to and retained the F900s. There are more of those floating around then Varicams. But the use of Varicams has picked up more and more.
 
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Sorry if my facts aren't correct. Like I said I'm going from what I've heard from various people in the different boards. I often hear Cine Alta used interchangibly with the F900 or F950.

As for the dates, I simply said since Once Upon a Time in Mexico since both it and Episode II were shot with an F900 and were and 1080p/24p according to IMDB. From my adimittedly limited knowladge, I hear more and more people mentioning Varicam for TV and documentary projects but can't think of any major films using them while several have used the F900 and F950. I've heard many claim that this is because they'd rather have 1080p for film out.
 
DavidBeier said:
Sorry if my facts aren't correct. Like I said I'm going from what I've heard from various people in the different boards. I often hear Cine Alta used interchangibly with the F900 or F950.

As for the dates, I simply said since Once Upon a Time in Mexico since both it and Episode II were shot with an F900 and were and 1080p/24p according to IMDB. From my adimittedly limited knowladge, I hear more and more people mentioning Varicam for TV and documentary projects but can't think of any major films using them while several have used the F900 and F950. I've heard many claim that this is because they'd rather have 1080p for film out.
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Same in Hong-Kong. Hardly any varicam films. Mainly F900 and F950 (The latter only a few, due to limit availability of the camera).
 
DavidBeier said:
Sorry if my facts aren't correct. Like I said I'm going from what I've heard from various people in the different boards. I often hear Cine Alta used interchangibly with the F900 or F950.

As for the dates, I simply said since Once Upon a Time in Mexico since both it and Episode II were shot with an F900 and were and 1080p/24p according to IMDB. From my adimittedly limited knowladge, I hear more and more people mentioning Varicam for TV and documentary projects but can't think of any major films using them while several have used the F900 and F950. I've heard many claim that this is because they'd rather have 1080p for film out.
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The cameras are 1080i.

More and more Varicams are gaining ground. But producers want the F900/950/900R because of the 1080i.

The commercial world is getting more into the Varicam. And even more so into the HVX.
 
The Sarlacc said:
The cameras are 1080i.

More and more Varicams are gaining ground. But producers want the F900/950/900R because of the 1080i.

The commercial world is getting more into the Varicam. And even more so into the HVX.
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Well, according to Sony they can output in 1080p 24p. Do you mean the chips are interlaced and the progressive frame is achieved in a sort of cheap way? Out of curiosity why does the Z1 progressive mode look so much crappier than the progressive images I see coming from the F900/F950 in regauds to motion?

And I'm sure all of us HVX200 owners are happier the more use the HVX200 and Varicam get but I do wish we'd see some big Varicam shot featuers (though it seems like that isn't gonna happen with the Genisis around).
 
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