V1u review, article, footage, grabs

There's a ton of talk over at DVI about it http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=76943 and I'm hoping Barry and crew can get their hands on it and tell us what they think. I'm a fan of tape but direct to disk is something I'm not at all against and the little harddrive that rest top this camera is hot. While I like the idea of P2 it not quite ready for primetime IMHO. I can't wait to see what type of image it produces. I myself am still looking at the Canon's A1.

-Nate
 
The V1 and the XHA1 are both shaping up to be very interesting. I definitely would like to take them both for a spin and do a comparison review between them.
 
I would so definitely look forward to that!

I wish Sony and Canon would supply you with the cameras to do a shootout but I know that's not going to happen.

I have been hoping to be able to get an HVX for so long and now I am starting to second guess my choice to get an HVX because of the possible quality traits of the V1 and XHA1.
 
Simon Wyndham, Nigel Cooper and Mikko who first tested V1E noticed loss of quality in progressive mode. It's obvious in the footage they captured. Guys who tested US model claim progressive is fine. I'm confused. I guess we have to wait for production models in December to be sure.
My choice is Canon A1 which I pre-ordered already, but I really hope Sony will deliver true progressive results. Could someone post a few screenshots comparing i and p in V1U?
Thanks!
 
Zim said:
your not even thinking about the A1 or G1?
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No Zim
I already have 2 XL-H1's in my equipment cage, and 2 buddies who own one each that I can use if ever needed. So an A1/G1 would be no more useful to me then a "behind-the-scenes" camera. And for that I have a DVX100a in the cage.

My next camera will be a tapeless camera. And it "MUST" produce a motion picture image "BETTER" then a Canon XL-H1. Not to many digital cinema cameras can do that today as it is, so for now.....I'm Good.
 
Yes, I noticed a huge drop in sharpness in progressive. Looks like it is down to some huge (and I mean HUGE) noise reduction going on in proscan mode.

The model of camera that I was given to test was pre-production. Sony are aware of my findings (whether they are happy or not is another matter, but then they shouldn't give me a camera with a faulty proscan mode on it if full res progressive scan is one of the main marketing points on the camera!)

I do have to say though as a counterpoint to that, that in most other respects I thought the camera was great. But I'll cut off there. My full review will be in Showreel Magazine.
 
Hey Simon,

Not to jack the thread but you worked on Left for Dead? I have to get this film. Everyone says it's hardcore action on top of action. Do you stay in contact with the guys a Mod Life? It's cool to see another action shooter. You know L4D was distributed by the same company that distributed "The Fourth Beast." If you google Nathyn Brendan Masters and "Wages of Sin" you'll find our new actioner. (Or you can just click on my signature). I'm definitely in the market for a new camera so I'm looking at all the reviews for this and the new Canons.

-Nate
 
Simon Wyndham said:
Yes, I noticed a huge drop in sharpness in progressive. Looks like it is down to some huge (and I mean HUGE) noise reduction going on in proscan mode.

The model of camera that I was given to test was pre-production. Sony are aware of my findings (whether they are happy or not is another matter, but then they shouldn't give me a camera with a faulty proscan mode on it if full res progressive scan is one of the main marketing points on the camera!)

I do have to say though as a counterpoint to that, that in most other respects I thought the camera was great. But I'll cut off there. My full review will be in Showreel Magazine.
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Simon, could you at least let us know about the image control options this camera has? I just sold my FX1 and the A1 is just about to hit the spanish market. It has a great "pseudo" progressive mode, A LOT of image control options (matrix, gamma, knee, etc), nice latitude, good low light performance, good dof and bokeh...and most important of all, I've seen the footage and I love it. So, it would be very important to me to find out about what sony has to offer.

One thing that seriously grinds my gear about sony is this pro/prosumer thing they have going on (Z1/FX1, V1/FX7, etc). Other companies have it too but they don't make the 2 versions THAT different. Now, sony likes to hit us where it hurts. Let's take the G1 and the A1 for example. They are basicly the came camera (image wise) with some stuff left out. Now, if you take the V1 and the FX7, they have so many diffent things that they could hardly be considered the same camera (IMAGE WISE). On the FX7 they took off the progressive scan and most of the image control options. The FX7 COULD have been a great portable solution against the Canon A1, but sony just had to play their dirty little game. Anyway, I'm sorry for coming down so hard on this. I'm just tired of how sony does things.
 
Rawfa, it's called Takeout Marketing. By clever timing and generating web hype you can effectively take out people from the market who were ready to buy the competition's camera. Take 'em out of the market until you have something to sell 'em. It's a time-honored technique. There's a really good chance a lot of people who were on the edge of buying a Canon XH-A1 will wait for the Sony, and most of them will probably decide the tradeoffs aren't worth dropping down to 1/4" chips for, but Sony will have taken them out of the market for long enough so they at least have a chance to suck them in. I'm not knocking Sony; I have used Sony cameras for years. I am knocking the überhype--there hasn't been anything like it since...since the HVX überhype.:-Laugh(DBG):
 
Simon Wyndham said:
Yes, I noticed a huge drop in sharpness in progressive. Looks like it is down to some huge (and I mean HUGE) noise reduction going on in proscan mode.

The model of camera that I was given to test was pre-production. Sony are aware of my findings (whether they are happy or not is another matter, but then they shouldn't give me a camera with a faulty proscan mode on it if full res progressive scan is one of the main marketing points on the camera!)

I do have to say though as a counterpoint to that, that in most other respects I thought the camera was great. But I'll cut off there. My full review will be in Showreel Magazine.
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Sorry but that REALLY sounds like they are still using interlaced chips and they are simply finding a better way to get a fake progressive mode (a la the XLH1).

The only other thing I can think of (which may be a possability) is that perhaps the edge enhancment is applied differently in different modes. I remember Adam Wilt mentioning that edge enhacment on the HVX200 is lighter in the cine-like gamma curves.
 
I think it's all over for Panasonic, quite frankly! This V1 coupled with a good DOF adapter and a matte box, will be heaven! I have owned a Sony A1U for a long time now, and have just sold it. The A1U was a great camera but for some of it's low light failings, all the while I just wished it would perform better in low light. Now, I think that the V1 is that better camera! Well Done Sony!

(When you actually stop and think about it, the V1 is a no brainer! 1080i HDV camera that also shoots in 25p and uses DV tapes! Great!)
 
Dando U asume that everybody is as much impressed by the V1 as you are and people isnt.

If it cant send out real 24P they are not going to take much market share in the US.

And still you cant compare thoose who want HDV and those who want DVCPROHD.

Its to different group of people.
 
I've just put the following notice on my review of the Sony V1 UK PAL version. Turns out the pre-preduction model had a glitch that was causing progressive to look soft, apparently it is sorted on the production models that will be shipping in the UK next month.

IMPORTANT NOTICE!
On Wednesday 18th October 2006 I was informed by Sony UK that the pre-production model of the V1 that I had for review was not of the same specification of the actual production models that will be sold here in the UK. Sony UK have just received this information directly from Japan. It turns out that the pro-production V1 that was loaned to me from Sony had an issue with the progressive scan mode. This issue caused the images to look a little bit soft compared to the interlaced mode. My review here states that in progressive it looks a little soft compared to interlaced and I even go so far as saying that the V1 lacks a little detail on wide shots and is a trifle soft in progressive when compared to the JVC GY-HD111E. Sony will be sending me a proper production model in the not too distant future so I can modify my review according to my new findings. In the meantime anyone reading this review should ignore any mention of softness or lack of details as it is almost certainly down to the faulty pre-production model I had.
 
DavidBeier said:
Sorry but that REALLY sounds like they are still using interlaced chips and they are simply finding a better way to get a fake progressive mode (a la the XLH1).
Click to expand...

You are talking a lot about 'filmlook' and that 'look' is something that appears like film for you. If it appears like progressive to me, it is progressive for me.

Just like all other cams do these days: scanning the chips and go in the magic voodoo box to filter, shape, sharpen, crossconvert, amplify etc. What you see is what you get.
 
xray said:
You are talking a lot about 'filmlook' and that 'look' is something that appears like film for you. If it appears like progressive to me, it is progressive for me.
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Well, in regaurds to the Canon XLH1, I'm fine with its progressive mode because it DOES look pretty much indistinguishible from true 24p to me. I haven't put it side by side with a 16mm camera or a real 24p cam but I havn't been able to tell a difference. The Sony Z1's progressive mode however didn't look like real 24p. The motion was was un-natural looking and off.

What we're wondering is whether or not Sony is using a true progressive image or just doing a better job of faking it like Canon does. Now, if hey are doing a better job of faking it, i.e. a flawless one, then yes it doesn't matter how they are getting it. What it does make a difference in is resolution. Having an interlaced CCD creat a fake progressive mode costs you 1/2 your vertical resolution like it did with the Z1 and XLH1 (according to some reports). It would also affect things like how good the camera can pull of its in camera slow motion. Besides, the fact that Sony keeps claiming it's a progressive camera would make it rather unfortunate if it wasn't.

Just like all other cams do these days: scanning the chips and go in the magic voodoo box to filter, shape, sharpen, crossconvert, amplify etc. What you see is what you get.
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Could you elaborate on this further? I'm not quite sure what you mean. I've already spoken on this thread on why I think the film look is important to get in camera and not just something that you can put some magic filter on in post. To use an admittedly extreme example, take the FX1. With a reported five and half stops of lattitude, you simply aren't going to be able to come close to the film gamma curve no matter how much you tinker with stuff, not when all your highlights are pure whites and all your shadows are pure black. You can't magically make that come back. I've shot with that camera and worked with footage from it and it's not so easy to suddenly get the look you want without the lattitude you need and the harsh HDV compression. I simply don't find the film look so easy achieve as people on this thread seem to think it is. I look at stuff that gifted students shot on a DVX100 and it looks like film to my eye. I then look at films shot on some sony video cameras like Open Water or Bamboozled and they just screem video to me. These are films with more cash and professional CCing systems than many of us have access to.

Keep in mind that I'm not passing judgment on the V1u since I haven't seen it operate yet.



Nigel Cooper said:
I've just put the following notice on my review of the Sony V1 UK PAL version. Turns out the pre-preduction model had a glitch that was causing progressive to look soft, apparently it is sorted on the production models that will be shipping in the UK next month.

IMPORTANT NOTICE!
On Wednesday 18th October 2006 I was informed by Sony UK that the pre-production model of the V1 that I had for review was not of the same specification of the actual production models that will be sold here in the UK. Sony UK have just received this information directly from Japan. It turns out that the pro-production V1 that was loaned to me from Sony had an issue with the progressive scan mode. This issue caused the images to look a little bit soft compared to the interlaced mode. My review here states that in progressive it looks a little soft compared to interlaced and I even go so far as saying that the V1 lacks a little detail on wide shots and is a trifle soft in progressive when compared to the JVC GY-HD111E. Sony will be sending me a proper production model in the not too distant future so I can modify my review according to my new findings. In the meantime anyone reading this review should ignore any mention of softness or lack of details as it is almost certainly down to the faulty pre-production model I had.
Click to expand...

Nigel, does this strike you as odd? I mean, for a progressive camera with native progressive chips, doesn't it seem weird that at this late phase in the game they are having issues with progressive images? Why would the native mode the camera outputs in have issues yet the interlaced mode be fine? The HVX200 has some alaising issues in 480 60i because it's a progressive camera and it has an interlaced glitch in SD. Doesn't it seem weird from native progressive camera to have proglems with shooting progressivly?
 
Sony's V1 cam doesn't literaly shoot progressively. It's just a new marketing term where they've merged the words "professional" and "aggressive" to describe their new interlaced system that shoots video in a "pro-gressively" fashion :)

........... oh God wouldn't that suck if that were true :(
 
@ david
I always needed to pay big time for Davinci CC on S16 shootings, so its a normal procedure to CC the material offline and not during the shoot. But with Voodoobox magic I mean all the electronic filtering etc. that is done inside the camera the HVX included. Even reading the CCD's is a voodooproces itself, reading high res from low res chips.

@john
The 25p shot with a Sony A1 (CMOS 1 chip 1/3") is looking fine (for a small video cam) and keeps up with the resolution.
 
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