I Know What You Produced In The Last HorrorFest (or how to make enemies pt1)

VersuS

VersuS

Veteran
OK, I just finished this marathon that lasted 48 hours with The Seeing.
I was thinking of doing this thread on Monday, clear my head a bit...but I decided to go for it now.

I want to write down my experience from watching all these movies and share some thoughts for the overall feeling I got as a newbie (in terms of dvxuser fests). I dont want people to get offended by the things I ll say in this, I will speak honestly and denounce my place as a film-maker (ha!ha!ha!) and take the 'Simple Viewer' title instead. So what comes next are the thoughts of a movie freak and horror movies freak to be more exact.

Marketing / Hype
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In the past few months we've witnessed some excellent threads being born in here. Their BTS/Grabs/Info was amazing. Watching all that stuff from movies being made at the time made me realise how serious these people were and made me expect some amazing stuff.
This was not the case for most of them I'm afraid.
Some lived to their hype...some lived to their quality as it was portrayed in the thread...but some were disappointing...and made me think that you cant judge a movie that has sound,score,story,actors and movement...from stills.....I admit I was fooled (not that the people in here tried to fool me but I should have been more careful of what to expect from stills and numbers of crew/cast).

I am not against the Marketing these threads provided...but it turned out that some movies would strike me better if I didnt know that a lot of people worked on them or hadnt seen some stills that would make me bite my nails from the anticipation of viewing the real thing.

Stories
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There were 2 big negatives in HorrorFest. One was the stories and plots. I admit that my contestant, The Door Between, lacks in that department as well so I m not saying this from the safe side.
I was disappointed to watch one movie after the other and try to figure out what was going on, if the movie was corrupted etc.
Some as I understand were longer and cut to fit the 6minute. Why guys? Is it so important to enter a fest to compete by 'destroying' your work? I had a 6 minute film (Door) and made it 12 minute coz that's what I wanted....I didnt care about competing with that one even though I feel the score is amongst the Top5 in here. I decided to follow what ever vision was in my head. So I dont understand why cut down your movies to fit the 6 minute and leave the viewer guessing.
I got tired of the same theme as well...which theme you might say...well the killer who kills....ok we got that...its a horrorfest...we expect death....but there have been some movies that delivered some really genuine stories and avoided the typical killer killing killed....Horror doesnt lie in the face of murder only....learning that you have a terminal disease can be horrific in its own sense....move out of the box and explore what is really scary....I cant stop thinking about Commitment....that s$$$ was scary as hell and it showed no blood, no knives, no killers,nada!!!!
I loved however that some of the movies had great twists that they managed to delived in accordance to the editing/directing/acting! Way to go!
Stories are vital and they dont have to do with dialogue....a silent film like Cure For Writer's Block has a great story behind it (even though many object to that).

Cinematography
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This is an area that was very well handled by the dvxusers and I am amazed. In general I saw some kick ass lighting, directing, framing...nice angles and even the movies that didnt have a story to tell, were nicely shot and had great images to show.
I was also glad to see that most people avoided the excessive use of filters to alter the look and tried to do most with what they got when shooting. In some cases filters rock (like in Reunion) but generally if you have the means to light up a scene, go for it without creating a visual carnival as I did with mine.

Editing
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Again, I loved most of the editing done in here. And that makes me wonder if most dvxusers are really good editors/cinematographers but lack in other areas....I find editing a very difficult task and it's amazing that most of you created movies that flowed so goddamn smoothly without having abrupt cuts, without putting unnecessary footage here and there to fill out the gaps....it was all very nice and I cant find but a few that would score below a 6or 7 in this area.

Sound
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Oh-oh......The second big negative of HorrorFest. I watched 64 movies (if i counted correctly) and 50 of them lacked enormously in the audio department. I tried to figure out the whys for this thing. Maybe since most of us do things on our own its difficult to work this craft as well at a high level. But there were problems that I would expect users in here to avoid. The levels were all over the place in so many movies you had to keep your fingers on the speaker just to lower the volume all the time.
I also saw that many people didnt really put much time into the sound design....I know that having a brother who is a sound engineer and a musician takes a whole lot of weight off my shoulders...but after HorrorFest I know that Music/Sound is the most essential part in a movie. And I also believe that not taking care of this issue is very bad and shows that some people dont fully understand what a viewing experience is all about.
I bet I'll hear a lot of 'we didnt have time' ...but my answer to this will be 'ok, dont submit'. I may be quite harsh with that...but guys...sound and music is what makes the viewer tick...especially in horror films....i dont know..maybe its just me...but when i cant understand what someone is saying or when i see someone walk out of a building into the street and the sound is the same...i am instantly out off the experience...
I am not saying that movies that lacked in sound shouldnt have been submitted, but I dont understand why people try so hard to put together a movie in the last minute and neglect some basic stuff thinking that it will be ok...I dont care if you couldnt make a nice VFX in the last minute or you didnt have the time to reshoot a scene ....those visuals dont mind me ...but sound does....so I am sorry for this comment, really I am..I know how hard you ve all worked, but sound to me is really important.

Acting
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It was really nice to see a lot of people play in these movies. A lot of you managed to get more than yourself to act and that is really nice and shows you have people who are with you in this or have the ability to get real actors which shows you have a way with words ;)
Generally acting was ok and I got some pretty convincing screams, cries, mentally disturbed faces....

VFX
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Oh my....havent we seen some pretty nasty bloody stuff in here, huh?
There were a lot of movies that had some VFX and makeup that really rocked the house!!! Some people went to a lot of trouble to make/get the best blood, do the best cg, worked their a$$ to make masks,props and stuff that really work.
But then again, I saw people come up with orange blood....:( and also I saw in some movies some VFX or special FX or you call them what you want...that should have been left out coz they really hurt the movies they were in...I would expect to see some of these fx in really home made videos....

AGAIN I will say this: if you cant make something that works, make something else and NOT STICK to your idea no matter what coz it shows that:
a)you are way too stubborn
b)you dont know what;s good or bad
c)you dont care about whats good or bad

You want to shoot a guy? Take a gun, hold it up, then do a close up on the guy holding the gun, and BANG, add a shot gun sound in post. Why on earth do you try to do the wide shot when your muzzles and blood splatter dont work! WOrk around the areas you cant deliver to the viewer and find some different way to get your message across...this will also make you more creative, improve your editing skills and also you ll be sure that even if someone says 'why didnt you show me that' the answer 'coz i couldnt' will be PERFECTLY FINE!

Horror/Terror/Screams and Queens
---------------------------------------------
This was a HorrorFest right? So why wasnt I scared?.....
Am I so sick and at this young age that nothing scares me anymore? Is it wrong that no matter how much blood you spill and how much brain, guts and arms cut off you show me I wont turn my head away? I just watched Hostel today for the first time and found it amusing.
I was scared with Ted in ID when he put the hand reach from the grass.
I was scared with the Commitment.
I was scared with Bloody Mary!!!!
I was scared in Halfway!!
There are a few more as well that had a disturbing, creepy theme, that wasnt scary but worked as part of HorrorFest.
However most of them gave me the impression that people nowadays feel that if you put some whacko running around killing people then thats scary....or even creepy....well its not anymore, its the year 2006 and you have to go back to basics to scare us...that means either show us something really shocking (like that craddle falling of the couch) or show us something really sudden (like the commitment and ID). Blood and guts dont make something scary anymore or even gross...they are just a good reason to smile and say 'oh, nice touch there with the blood'. Its been decades since Carrie was released and people freaked out with the bucket full of blood being spilled all over her. I am not sure if that freaks out people or just pumps up their FANBOY hormones.

OVERALL
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HorrorFest has been a wild ride!!!!
I enjoyed it as I enjoyed my trips around Europe. Had the same planning and anticipation and organising what to take with me. Had the same 'what are we gonna see first' thing as well. It also had the disappointment of not finding always what you'd expect....and some nice surprises like that little cafe around the corner that had the best coffee and cake.
I loved all the movies even though I said all those things above and I know that I loved them coz I can watch them all again and again.
There are so many things to learn from each and every one of them, that I dont know where to start with the thank yous towards Jarred and the whole DVXUser crew and of course the DVXUSERS!!!

Good luck to you all! HOpe I dont get threat mails, at least if you send me one, call me JOhn and not VersuS ;)

Back to the forum now....
Ta-ta..............
 
That was really thoughtful and well said, VersuS. Bravo!

I also am fascinated that my view of many entries is evolving over time. In fact, I'm becoming more of a fan of your film after watching several times. I think it helped that I was able to give you a critique, which you accepted gracefully and responded to cogently. That allowed me to focus on the rest of the work and I like very much a lot of what you are doing (there is, after all, a lot in there). I also keep coming back to that damn location. JEEZ, that old pool is creepy as sh*t! I'd like to see you shoot some more stuff there.

Thanks again for taking the time to put in your viewpoints AND the reasoning behind them.
 
Mark Johnson said:
That was really thoughtful and well said, VersuS. Bravo!

I also am fascinated that my view of many entries is evolving over time. In fact, I'm becoming more of a fan of your film after watching several times. I think it helped that I was able to give you a critique, which you accepted gracefully and responded to cogently. That allowed me to focus on the rest of the work and I like very much a lot of what you are doing (there is, after all, a lot in there). I also keep coming back to that damn location. JEEZ, that old pool is creepy as sh*t! I'd like to see you shoot some more stuff there.

Thanks again for taking the time to put in your viewpoints AND the reasoning behind them.
Click to expand...

Right now it's Saturday night in Athens and am exhausted after the viewing marathon. Tomorrow I'll watch again at least 20 of the movies that really made my day and I guess viewing them again will be a new experience.

Thanx for the comments and please if you want to PM me with your email I will send you some more photos of the location for your pleasure.
I dont know if you read it before but this was an old building used to clean water before dropping it to the sea that is right next to it. I know there is a name for that but I'm too tired to remember...;)
 
Ha ha! I did read what you wrote but my addled brain somehow translated it into "abandoned swimming pool." I have NO IDEA where that came from ... well, I guess it was the way that wall sloped etc. etc. Anyway, I am going to PM you right now so when you wake up send me some pix!
 
Bump for a great post that deserves more attention.

I'm agreeing with a lot of what VersuS took time to write up.
 
John, this is excellent information and a perfect example of the type of dedication and work that you have exhibited in (I believe) everyone's thread!!! A thorough assessment from this event which we can look upon, understand and benefit from.

I for one plan on cutting and copying your post and placing it in my Filmmaking folder in my word program.

You have outdone yourself in so many ways over the past few days. Your reviews have been so fair and well versed that anyone can understand what you are saying. And each review was original.

This post is a perfect signature to the work you've taken the time to do during this festival!

Thank you!

Ted
 
Thanx Ted! Maybe I should turn in my DVX and become a film critic, at least I wont need the feedback then, LOL! ;)
 
Yeah! I'll bump this back up as well cause I know I'm guilty of several of these in my film! 1Partial story 2leveling 3 extremely short! But some liked it anyways and that's all I wanted.:thumbup:

But thanx for havin the ballz to break it down so to a science. i think it needed to be said.:)
 
Thanx mameragex and please pay attention to my last post in your thread coz I wrote it with all good intentions since you seem like a very nice guy. Dont crush my head too :)
 
Very interesting thread.

I agree with almost all your points. I want to expand but feel I would go into a rant. I've also seen a lot of work around here that isn't getting the proper views that they deserve. It’s a shame because there are some truly amazing things that are not getting viewed. Stricken for one.

I apologise if that I have not got around YET to watching and reviewing all the entries but it is my mission and I will. :)

J.P.
 
I am afraid that Stricken since it was marketed since the beginning as an exhibition only piece, was passed by, by many folks.

It's sad since Matt did tons of work preparing this, doing it, marketing it..

However Matt if you're reading this...dont worry man, Stricken will find its way out there, it doesnt need DVXuser so much.
 
Great post VersuS. You've done a service to us all by taking all the entries and critiquing them as a whole. The only thing I disagree with is your assertion that if the film does not "fit the mold" so to speak (it is too long and had to be cut to fit the time limit or it is not really "horror", etc.) that it should not have been entered. All of us are looking for feedback and these festivals (especially free, online festivals) are an excellent way of getting that. Even if the film is entered in a different form than it was originally intended, I still think there's plenty of room for other users to give helpful, valid comments. Just my two pennies....
-Ryan
 
Also, the rules said horror/thriller, which is quite a wide genre... maybe wider than mentioned in your post. IMHO.
 
jpbankesmercer said:
I've also seen a lot of work around here that isn't getting the proper views that they deserve. It’s a shame because there are some truly amazing things that are not getting viewed. Stricken for one.


J.P.
Click to expand...

VersuS said:
I am afraid that Stricken since it was marketed since the beginning as an exhibition only piece, was passed by, by many folks.

It's sad since Matt did tons of work preparing this, doing it, marketing it..
Click to expand...

:crybaby: +:crybaby: =:crybaby: :crybaby:

It bums me out a little.


VersuS said:
However Matt if you're reading this...dont worry man, Stricken will find its way out there, it doesnt need DVXuser so much.
Click to expand...
Thanks...I hope so.
 
HybridCreations said:
Great post VersuS. You've done a service to us all by taking all the entries and critiquing them as a whole. The only thing I disagree with is your assertion that if the film does not "fit the mold" so to speak (it is too long and had to be cut to fit the time limit or it is not really "horror", etc.) that it should not have been entered. All of us are looking for feedback and these festivals (especially free, online festivals) are an excellent way of getting that. Even if the film is entered in a different form than it was originally intended, I still think there's plenty of room for other users to give helpful, valid comments. Just my two pennies....
-Ryan
Click to expand...

Why is Matt and myself less in the need for input because of our NC entries with Stricken and The Door Between? We didnt cut them to fit the 6 minute rule. We wanted to show them here and get as much feedback as possible as you say, but these are 2 of the entries that got left behind by most people! And this is because we wont compete? If this horrorfest is to get feedback as future filmmakers and get some good comments to become better, then why not get on with your vision, do what you set out to do and send it even in an NC entry.

IMHO if you cut down a movie that was written to be longer than 6 minutes and (worse) if you shot it and was longer but then cut out parts...then that will show and NOT IN A GOOD WAY. How can someone do a good, proper, clean and distinctive review of something that was chopped up in the editing room? Maybe I thought that some movies were average or lacked in some parts just because they were chopped or finished in a hurry. But isnt this bad for them filmmakers? What good comments and helpful do you expect to get for a movie that was not what you wanted to do or what you originally did? If you do a crappy sound design in the last 2 days just to fit the deadline, how can you expect me to say 'Ok, kudos to your sound design since I know it was done in a hurry' and give you more than 5 or 6? And isnt this bad for people who started early or planned carefully or sticked to their vision and said 'OK IF I CANT MAKE IT LIKE THE WAY I WANT IT THEN I WONT SEND IT'.

Brandon wanted to enter but still he did a wonderful piece.
Ted was a one man show but proved that one man shows have more guts and talent than 15 people crews.

So NO! I dont feel that you enter a festival just to get the feedback and you do it by submitting something that you shouldnt have. I mean, I dont get it from the creator's perspective either.

ps. if you talk about those who did something that wasnt horror/thriller but still submitted it..than I wonder, why? why dont you give us the link through the appropriate thread in dvxuser forum and kindly ask us to watch it and comment on it....I mean...should I send my two films to the asian romance festival and say 'hey guys, just wanted the feedback coz I want to become better'???
 
First off, the tone of your reply comes off as a bit defensive and bitter. I merely offered up my opinion and if you disagree that's fine, but this is a DISCUSSION board not a medium to show how "right" you are.

With that said, I was not aware that you entered an NC entry. I'm sorry that you have not gotten as much feedback as you like but I'm sure you got more than you would have by posting outside the umbrella of this festival. That's all I meant by my "Why not enter a shortened film?" comments. In fact, I applaud you for submitting an entry that wasn't eligible for a prize.

I tend to look at shorts as practice. I don't think anyone's short here is going to Sundance (although some probably could). I also don't think anyone's Horrorfest entry is going to be the defining film of their career, so why be so chained to the purity of the piece as a whole. If it loses a little something because it has to be cut down so be it. If more people watch the shortened version and like it, perhaps they will watch the longer version down the line. It's up to the filmmaker then to finish it as a full piece and offer it up. There are a number of things viewers could comment on in a cut-down piece. Cinematography, lighting, sound, pacing, blocking, and editing are all things that can be showcased with or without the entire story. Deadlines are a part of the real world and dealing with them is a skill in and of itself. Of course, some are going to better than others at disguising the fact that it was originally a longer piece, but that's only one aspect of the process. Comment on that in your review and move on to giving the rest of your proper, clean, and distinctive review. I would hope that we as filmmakers would want comments on all aspects of the process, not just a Siskel and Ebert thumbs up or down.

I haven't watched all of the entries, but were there so many that weren't "horror" that it's worth getting upset over? Have we been so inundated with incorrectly themed entries that it overshadows the proper horror films? No. Perhaps users here wanted to be involved in the festival and loosely interpreted the genre. That's fine with me.
-Ryan
 
VersuS said:
Thanx mameragex and please pay attention to my last post in your thread coz I wrote it with all good intentions since you seem like a very nice guy. Dont crush my head too :)
Click to expand...

No way buddy! I saw your intentions and i appreciate your honesty. :dankk2:
Besides...I wouldn't crush your head... I would only smash it a lil bit! lol:thumbup:

thanks again bro.
 
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