Envision & 235 Studios - "R.E.M."

[235 Studios]

I feel llike the dolley shots were unmotivated. Too much movement, toom uch following. But the story worked was simple enough to activate six minutes effectivly. Look was nice.

Thanks for the critique- that's funny that you mention that there was too much movement- as originally Norm was wanting even more movement- but with out the aid of a steadicam, I opted to use the dolly. I'm not sure that I agree that there was too much movement, but thanks for the input.

Thank you for the gratuitous butt shot in the begining.

You can thank Norm for that- that was his idea from the get go.

 

[Norm Sanders]

Nah, it wasn't gratuitous ... we were perfectly framed for the picture, and it just 'happened' to be at a certain level.

When Ryan & I were originally talking about movement, I was envisioning lots of handheld-in-your-face camera work, specifically with 120-250 shutter speeds on anything involving action.

However, once we got to the set, started late, and wanted to get all our master shots first, it allowed us little time for anything else, and quite frankly we all forgot about those edgy staccato shots I wanted until the next day. Oops.

 

[Beat Takeshi]

I liked the movement of the camera and the booty shot was great, I could almost smell it it was so close. The draggin into the room and being pulled up the wall was great but I wanted more. I thought maybe she was going to get her legs tore off and fall to the ground and try to crawl away. The score really made me feel what was going on. The production value went way up on this one compared to Sparrow I thought. The images were nice and crispy. The ending was a nice idea but it seemed to not work for me for some reason but I can't put my finger on why.

 

[VersuS]

I liked the movement of the camera and the booty shot was great, I could almost smell it it was so close. .

OMG you just managed to make me work my abs out insanneeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!

 

[Norm Sanders]

I liked the movement of the camera and the booty shot was great, I could almost smell it it was so close.

:huh: I'm still processing this comment. 'Ewww' comes to mind, lol.

Other than that, thanks for the feedback Aram. Yes, with more time (development, pre during & post production, we could have probably done much more with the hall shot, the ending, etc.

But, and Ryan & I were just discussing this today via phone, for the small amount of time that everyone was able to commit to this, I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out, and am especially glad that it's been as well rec'd as it has. In many ways, better than I could have hoped.

 

[235 Studios]

Aram-

Thanks for the comments. Glad you liked it.

The ending was a nice idea but it seemed to not work for me for some reason but I can't put my finger on why.

My own thoughts as to why it doesn't work are that it moves to slowly, and isn't violent enough. I had wanted to do a vertigo shot here, but her proximity to the wall, the lack of reference items on the white wall, etc made the attemps at this not work as I had thought, so instead we just went with the dolly in. I agree that it is a little unsatifying.

 

[235 Studios]

But, and Ryan & I were just discussing this today via phone, for the small amount of time that everyone was able to commit to this, I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out, and am especially glad that it's been as well rec'd as it has. In many ways, better than I could have hoped.

Yep, I've been very pleased with the responses- thanks everyone.

 

[Beat Takeshi]

Yeah i think you hit it on the nose. It seemed to slow down too much at the end.

 

[Cynic821]

Ive had the chance to see other works from this group here, and my perspective is that the group itself presents itself very dignified and professional. Presentation in the movies created are also up there, but for me thats where it ends, and the movies begin.

REM

VFX
The fog machine felt like a fog machine, and i guessed right that it was a projector that created that light, worked on too many live shows where a projector is involved with lots of fog. When she goes up the wall i fail to believe she is being pulled. I believe the float, but not that anything is pulling her into the room.


Cinematography
The footage was sharp, maybe too sharp, because in combination with the lighting, specifically downstairs, i felt like it was a crisp home video. Not lit like a movie, but more like a photo-shoot. Like we saw too much. I didnt like how the whole thing was lit personally, very anti dramatic. Some of the shots didnt match as well. When in the kitchen she turns around to see whats there, and she goes from looking quickly to a slow tripod pan. The same shot them seemed recycled later on. Alot of the cuts seemed unnecessary to a degree since they werent really giving us new information. Just going with her from one location to the next. But that belongs in editing i suppose. I felt the camera could have been used much better to convey panic, but what is she panicking for? We arent given why the sense of urgency early in the movie. I didnt like the over the shoulder shot in the end , probably because im not a fan of shots that usually should be used when the shallow DOF can be there. I think if the Shallow DOF isnt there, then the shots shouldnt be attempted. Its distracting. Like i know the digi revolution is a movement, but then replicating shallow DOF shots and not having the DOF there is distracting. Also maybe when shes being dragged by the rope the camera could have been closer and moved with her.


Editing

Along with the shots not matching feeling wise, there was a shot in the kitchen where theres a dark shadow on her face, then it cuts to a different angle and the shadow is gone. Otherwise we get from where we need to go from where we are just fine, but it wasnt interesting.

Sound
Sound is good, but the levels were kinda of off, i had to rush for my volume dial while watching because it was just too loud...when watching again, i found the dialouge was not audible unless it was turned up , so i had to time my volume buttons to not bleed my ears again. Other sound effects were good. Stock? or home made?

Score
Score was kinda built in with the sound effects. So this was good, not distracting.

Screenplay
I cant really tell if there was one. More of seemed like this movie was made in a few hours after a conversation of lets join into the horrorfest. This not only lacked a beginning but lacked an ending as well. I continue to feel like im going insane here because i feel like im the only person noticing the trend of mystery, but 6 minutes is an eternity to make a short. As i cut and recut my movie, i began to realize its a more than feasible length of time. and this short actually is less than 3 1/2 minutes. That could have been filled out, not to just add an ending or a beginning, but maybe make a different movie all together. It just felt like a girl is going to go up the stairs, see her self and then we are going to open the door. I wasnt really scared at all during it, nor did i care for her, because i didnt know who she was or if what was chasing her was even dangerous.


Acting

The acting worked, though i think her voice work was better than her facial expressions. I didnt understand why she needed to wear what she wore besides the fact she has a nice body. It was distracting, but im glad i had something to look at because it was the only thing keeping me interested in the movie, even at 400 x 225.


Tilt (post comments)

I just feel this was a rush to get it done to be a part of it. It seems like you guys put alot of effort into this, but it just doesnt show through in any aspect besides paying a professional actor to be in it. I see too much visually that isnt important. First i thought it was really early in the evening, having been on the phone, but then we find out shes really sleeping (i think) but in this world of 2006, no body goes to bed that early. The kitchen was so lit up as well. Dramatic lighting could have helped this, but i think nothing could have saved this from the screenplay lacking in itself. I feel you guys have the organization , professionalism and presentation to be better, but i feel like you guys are a live production company more than a short movie/feature movie. I didnt get why should would go up stairs if she was so terrified, why not get out of the house is it late at night or early? She seems comfortable with her body, so i think she wouldn't mind going to a neighbors if shes scared. again im not a fan of being left hanging on story, i can tolerate a silent hill ending though, when the story is there, but without a story or beginning i leave this movie just feeling why did i need to watch this?

 

[Norm Sanders]

Hey Cynic, I'm glad you were able to express how you felt, especially since I read in another thread that you were afraid to tell how you really felt about any of the films. So I say with the most absolute truthfulness that I appreciate your frankness as well as the detailing of your thoughts.

That said, your username also has 'cynic' in it, so I'm not too surprised that this fell short for you in a number of areas. :grin:

Was it an excuse to throw something together just to be in the horrorfest? I'll give you a huge resounding 'YEP!' on that one. :thumbsup: We thought it'd be fun, and we at least know we didn't throw together schlock, just to get something on screen.

What works for some won't work for others. It's just a fact of life that it's impossible to please everyone, so while others here love certain aspects of the film, I know others will be like "Please, give me more!".

Sorry about the bleeding ear drums on the initial sound burst, but it's also supposed to be part of the effect. It's supposed to be rediculously loud for her as well, part of the reason for the scare. There were a few stock sounds, but even most of the stock sounds I had were still manipulated to make them sound different ... and there were plenty of homemade ones as well, mostly taking some ADR from Rebecca & having fun with them in post.

She needed to wear what she did because one of our reasons for the film was to have a fun little 'eye candy' piece. But aside from that, it's not too uncommon for women to dress in boy shorts (or less) when running around the house before bed & by themselves. So we didn't feel it was gratuitous, or without reason.

I'm unsure where you're getting the idea that it's early ... the clock downstairs also clearly showed 12:00 (we have to assume that means midnight/12am), so it's not a matter of someone going to bed too early.

Again, bottom line is that we finally finished SPARROW, which proved to be a much larger project than just a 6 minute cut for the HeroFest, what with all the content on the DVD, marketing, etc. However, we still had a couple of weeks before HorrorFest submissions were due, and we believed we could have fun with a very simple idea that wouldn't cost much for FX or take too much time ... and give us an excuse to also test out the HVX.

For everything that we personally set out to do, we succeeded on nearly every level. We were able to work with some of the crew that we worked with on SPARROW & had a great time. We were able to work on & focus on the SFX to help carry the story vs. only visually ... and did pretty well. We worked with a new composer, and both sides had some growth & definitely postive experiences from it. And we were able to work with Rebecca (who's not a paid professional for the film - other than all the M&M's she downed during production), and found a talented performer that we'll look forward to working with again.

Hope that helps explain a little or at least give answer to some of your comments, and I again honestly appreciate the straight forward feedback.

 

[Erik Olson]

Regardless of the fact that you entered "on a whim", your short outperforms 90% of what I've viewed so far. Perhaps it isn't right to discuss the competition in threads like this one, but R.E.M. simply stands out as a better product in every category versus what I've seen so far.

I'm going through this festival eight shorts a day, so hopefully, there will be a good ten films that rate near R.E.M.

I'm scoring the spreadsheet (which does not work off-the-server, btw) as the film plays above it. So, one *hit performance, bad edit or fakey looking SFX shot three-quarters of the way through an otherwise exemplary piece can drop it from an eight to a five really quickly.

At the end of voting, I'll likely be somewhat surprised by who won, as I haven't gone back or marked any film for subsequent viewing.

Anyway, R.E.M., for whatever it is, will certainly be in the final shakedown on my list.

Good luck.

e

 

[Brandon Rice]

I'm scoring the spreadsheet (which does not work off-the-server, btw)

what do you mean? it should be up there.

 

[Erik Olson]

It's there, but I had to format all the scoring cells (back to absolute / whole numbers) to keep the spreadsheet from denying entries. Maybe I'm the only one?

It's working now, except I souped it up to bump The Judas Kiss into the Final Four!!! Oh... wait... never mind.


e

 

[Brandon Rice]

hm... the formulas are right... IDK what's up with yours

 

[jpbankesmercer]

Acting: Rebecca was ACE, very natural, a star in the making!
Script: Wanted a little more but the twist was excellent!
Direction: Fantastic.
Music: Superb! God I worship Edgen
Editing: Tight/ flowed.
Lighting: Ryan, A1. Features must be calling, did you frame them all? Or did Norm play a big part in this?
Loved: Rebecca’s acting, Title’s (PRO as ever!), tie-in ghost noises with tap running (Nice touch), The track and Pan up the stairs (One of my fav’s from the festival), going up sideways (A1), the twist and how it was handled.
Hated: Not much, the deep blue’s upstairs kind of felt too easy for me, would have loved a grittier nigh time, suppose that HVX is crisp. Wanted a tiny bit more pulling into the bedroom.
Overall: A GREAT film!

Guys as always what can I say???

It may have been mentioned but it's bugging me...The upstairs clock numbers blue? Was this because of CC or just a new diff. clock?

Top Job!
J.P.

 

[235 Studios]

Ive had the chance to see other works from this group here, and my perspective is that the group itself presents itself very dignified and professional. Presentation in the movies created are also up there ...

Thanks for the complements.

Cinematography
The footage was sharp, maybe too sharp, because in combination with the lighting, specifically downstairs, i felt like it was a crisp home video.

No arguement here- the stock lens is all that was used.

I felt the camera could have been used much better to convey panic

Yep- and that was our original desire- time, equipment, and planning, or the lack there of, all played a part in us not getting the additional handheld / panic-y shots we had initially wanted.

I didnt like the over the shoulder shot in the end , probably because im not a fan of shots that usually should be used when the shallow DOF can be there. I think if the Shallow DOF isnt there, then the shots shouldnt be attempted. Its distracting. Like i know the digi revolution is a movement, but then replicating shallow DOF shots and not having the DOF there is distracting.

I agree that this would have been better using DOF, but one of the challenges of this one, was that we did not have that option. I personally did not find that shot distracting, as we are looking at the back of her head which is mostly still. The doors are opening in the direction that she is looking, creating a leading line from the actress to the door- which guides the view and helps them read the scene, or tells them where to look. Don't get me wrong, I love DOF. But trying to use all that focus range is another challenge that I enjoyed having on this short.

Otherwise we get from where we need to go from where we are just fine, but it wasnt interesting.

Thanks! I'm glad that it was fine- my skills in the editing arena are still being refined, and my real passion is cinematography- so hey I'll gladly take a "fine" on the editing- at least it didn't suck.

Screenplay
I cant really tell if there was one. More of seemed like this movie was made in a few hours after a conversation of lets join into the horrorfest.

"Circle gets the square!" As Norm said, you are correct. Althought I don't think that Norm and I spent a few hours of talking about entering, I think maybe it was at most a ten minute phone call. :laugh:

Tilt (post comments)
I just feel this was a rush to get it done to be a part of it.

YEP! You are correct.

besides paying a professional actor to be in it.

I'll take that as a complement for the actor- as she is not a "professional".

I didnt get why should would go up stairs if she was so terrified, why not get out of the house...

Welcome to the horror genre. What horror flick make rational sence when you break it down? Why does the "dumb blond" always go where she is not supposed to in horror flix? (No offence Rebecca ) That is all just a part of the horror scene. I'm not a huge fan of horror flix for this reason, and others.

Thanks again for teh comments. I do appreciate honest constructive feed back - as that helps refine future productions even more. None of us will get any better if we just go around patting each other on the back saying well done, when it really wasn't well done.

Overall people seem to like it- but for those with a more critical eye- they can see where improvements could have been made.

 

[235 Studios]

Regardless of the fact that you entered "on a whim", your short outperforms 90% of what I've viewed so far. Perhaps it isn't right to discuss the competition in threads like this one, but R.E.M. simply stands out as a better product in every category versus what I've seen so far.

Thanks. I like that quote so much I think I'll add it to my sig.

which does not work off-the-server, btw

Yeah, I noticed that too- but I thought that it was do to a PC/Mac thing, since I'm on a mac ...

Anyway, R.E.M., for whatever it is, will certainly be in the final shakedown on my list.

Good luck.

e

Thanks.

 

[TimurCivan]

Thanks for the critique- that's funny that you mention that there was too much movement- as originally Norm was wanting even more movement- but with out the aid of a steadicam, I opted to use the dolly. I'm not sure that I agree that there was too much movement, but thanks for the input.



You can thank Norm for that- that was his idea from the get go.

you know what it was..... i realised now. the movemnt was Tooooooo smooth. The set was so sparse and clean, thatwhen the camer amoved s smoohly it kinda seemed mechanichal. something about the perect fit o her clothing, and im not just aying that, the clothing was deliberate on your part. The minmal clothing, minimal, deco. minimal light ( or so it seems good work my hats off its hard to pull that off) clean sound, with dead clean movemnt. Theres NO friction anywhere to add texture. does that makesense.????

 

[235 Studios]

Lighting: Ryan, A1. Features must be calling, did you frame them all? Or did Norm play a big part in this?

The lighting was Tung- as he was our Gaffer- and I thought he did a good job too.

Yep, I framed them- Norm let me have a lot of freedom. Glad you liked it.

Title’s (PRO as ever!), tie-in ghost noises with tap running (Nice touch),

Thanks I had fun putting that together- but I think what really sells it is the SFX, which I think Norm did a good job at adding in.

The track and Pan up the stairs (One of my fav’s from the festival)

Yeah, I had fun with that one. I have to give a thank you to Neil Rowe- as he supplied me with the wheels- I then attached them to a bogen dolly- which allowed me to get that low to the ground to get that shot.

It may have been mentioned but it's bugging me...The upstairs clock numbers blue? Was this because of CC or just a new diff. clock?

No CC, that is a different clock.

 

[235 Studios]

Theres NO friction anywhere to add texture. does that makesense.????

Yeah, that makes perfect sense- and I'll agree with that. Thanks for the clarification. This short is very clean- which is kinda out of the norm for a horror flick added texture would have definately helped sell the "scary" factor.