Sound DVD. Who would do it?

Shawn you just nailed it.

Bottom line is this... I've bought a few DVDs on DVXuser just to see somebody's short... or check out a technique on something. It's cool that so many members have supported these DVD projects. I don't think anybody's getting rich off these things but if it helps the buyer learn something and it helps the seller cover his/her rent for a couple of months then it seems like a win/win to me.

I don't want to point to anybody specific, but if you're like me and have bought a few of these DVDs then you know that sometimes you're paying just to learn a single trick... but the fact is it's a lot easier to get the point when it's visually laid out right in front of you. I've never felt ripped off by any of the disks I've bought on here. A college course costs hundreds (if not more) and takes months to wade through... I have a few NYU buddies here locally and one of them thinks he knows everything about sound and then flounders misearably as he ruins the audio... and the others openly admit that this $100k degree didn't help them figure out any of the practical side of things.

So I'm out in the garage the other day... banging out some dollies and special lighting rigs for a current project... and that's when the thought hit me that I will waste an entire day tweaking some lighting rig (or whatever) and try to think of a way to mass produce it for dirt cheap... but I still end up putting in a rediculous amount of hours and R&D on this stuff. For everything I've ever sold on DVXuser I strongly doubt I've ever actually cleared a dime... and meanwhile I answer the exact same questions to people over and over again. I'll get a PM where people explain how their situation is somehow different or special because of ___________ and really it's the exact same question I've answered a hundred times.

Don't get me wrong. I like talking to people about audio... and if every newcomer to the boards ONLY did a search then chances are they'd find 95% of the answers they needed... but that would sure make the audio board boring wouldn't it? Once you came by this section of the forum and all the posts were over 6 months old this section would just become a dusty encyclopedia in the back of the library. So the point is that I have no problem with the PMs or even the people who come around asking the same questions... I just thought that I could probably cover the basics in a way that THOSE PEOPLE could relate to. Some of it is as simple as boom placement... it blows my mind how many people think they are booming well and the mic head is still 10' away from the action. The first time you see a good boom op you'd SWEAR that the mic MUST be in the shot... but it isn't! THIS is the kind of stuff that I wanted to put on a disk... just a basic overview of all the questions that I get asked repeatedly... then a basic instructional breakdown... this part would more or less be the talk I have with a PA that is thrown at me to cover sound.

If somebody else wants to do a copendium of information I think that would be a good thing... and I'd buy that just to see how somebody else handles things... but my idea was a simple little concept. My sound rig consists of a lot of mics, a couple poles, lots of cables, screens, a wireless rig, mixpre, 671, wireless boom... and whatever else I can't think of right now. I've got at least $5K in my sound and I was intending to aim this video at people who read that and think, "holy sh*t that's a lot to have in sound!"... if you have a 302 or 442 and an SD digital recorder fed by a Schoeps mk41... then chances are my disk won't be for you.

Now I don't want to hold up the collaboration discussion... that sounds cool to me also... but I'm talking about something much more simple then that.

*we now return you to your regular scheduled thread*
 
I would think that a dvd for a basic overview of production sound, and a seperate one for post would be good, if you wanted to do it, but it would need to stay very very basic. I could give a three hour lecture just sound sound editing alone.
 
There really is too much to be covered adequately in a DVD tutorial. More important is, too much of what needs to be learned is picked up through trial &error and experimentation. You can see how to hold a boom, but you can't hear how holding and aiming it differently effects what you record. Same for location mixing and ESPECIALLY in post. There is no formula to do it right. Only a complete course in the chosen specialty will really get someone ready to do it well.

You can watch a DVD on how to drive, you can watch others drive. You can't drive well until you get behind the wheel and learn all the subtleties.

So, IMHO, a DVD series to train people interested in becoming audio professionals is offering something you can't deliver and actually will give the viewer a false sense of confidence. I have had guys hand me some video bragging how great their audio was. They clearly have not heard good audio or know the difference. This would be the danger of offering something that doesn't give you feedback on your work. Hands on with feedback is the only way to really "get" it.

BUT, a video showing basic and simple audio trick and techniques, similar to what Matt is thinking of,is always helpful. Ty Ford has a great video on his website showing the differences between microphones. Taking that idea and expanding it to simple things like basic boom technique, wireless lav micing, and simple level settings would be great.

Judging by how many audio forum posters actually buy Jay Rose's book I doubt many would pay money for the DVDs. Not that it wouldn't be a great investment of $20 but more the general hesitancy by most in here to spend one dollar more then is felt necessary for audio.

Sooo, my suggestion would be to create something and post it on YouTube or Google video. There really is no profit motive for any of this so why not cut out all that hardware and shipping that cost money and keep giving this info away for free. You could throw a Paypal donation button on the video to help recoup something for all the time involved.

Just some quick thoughts. Either way I will be glad to offer any feedback or help to those that take this on. It will certainly be a fun project.

Good luck
 
Wabbit,

Well said. Over on dveStore, Guy has done a commendable job on showcasing several mics using online flash presentations at http://dvestore.com/ (HHB Flash, Senn ME66 w/SKP500 - MZW60 blimp windscreen - MZS20 pistol - MZH60 muff, Evolution G2 wireless, Rode, etc.)

The "how to" setup for the wireless mic to a Canon XL2 was terrific - just the kind of details needed for someone not familar with the equipment.

I also agree with your notion of the PayPal donation button. If there were more demain, perhaps www.expertvillage.com ($300/ea) would be okay, but I doubt this type of video would gather enough demand.

Regards, Michael
 
i have all of the books out there that cover sound and the latest one is the one that best covers what we do and it is amazing how many great things are in this one book.

the only place that seems to sell it, other than from the direct site www.locationaudiosimplified.com, is trewaudio.

but either way i highly recommend it "Location Audio Simplified"

after this book then the short list is the two books by tomlinson holman and then the two books by jay rose.

i know that walter graff had wanted to do a dvd on audio but he is awfully busy and this subject would require more than one dvd.

a beginner one would be good and then one on just booming maybe?

matthew
 
Here's the dvd:

"no... left arm straight up... closer... closer... CLOSER DAMN IT... okay that's good... no you're NOT in frame... watch where it's pointed... anticipate the action from the rehearsal and split the distance between actors... favor the one speaking... See those little lights? you want that one there to just barely flicker a few times a minute... if that one lights steady and the next one starts flickering then turn that just a hair... otherwise DON'T TOUCH IT... no you can turn it but don't move it farther then between those two hash marks... oh hey and don't slide the pole in your hands... if you can hold it at the collars that should be best... alright kid you're ready... I'll talk to you to see how it's going in a couple takes."

For a total beginner we don't need a really long and complicated tutorial. Seeing that paragraph above fully explained... and hearing what it sounds like when things are right and what it sounds like when things are wrong... I think stuff like that will tell people a lot. Have you ever seen how obnoxious you gotta' get with the cam and mics in a run 'n gun or doc situation? Until you've experienced that you don't know what close and personal really means. Audio is the same way... Getting good at it takes time and experience... but it shouldn't take a professor to explain the how and why in a concise manner.
 
There is indeed way too much to be covered on DVD, and on the job experience isn't something that could be included....but I also remember first trying to learn the very basics of audio, searching through an endless amount of "tutorial" websites, user forums, articles, books from the library, etc. I'm sure a college course is probably the ultimate route, but this is not for everybody. Like for me, I have an interest in making my videos better, so I'm learning what I can about audio, but don't really have the cash or time to take a course for something I may end up not using too much. Right now, I just shoot and edit things for family and friends, but am heavily considering doing outside jobs......so this may be something that pans out and can be an actual income making job, or it may just remain an expensive hobby that my wife keeps getting steamed over :) I just know I would be interested in something like this.
 
Not a professor but someone who knows the difference. You often get the guy who claims to know good audio and get's it 80% right but thinks it dead on. To him it sounds fine because he never learned better. That is where needing feedback from someone who knows matters. They don't need a doctorate in audio engineering but just someone with audio experience. In Seattle we have several workshops that provide this. I am sure most other major cities have something similar.

Where this becomes an issue is the freshmen filmmaker who hear the voice in their headphones and assumes everything is fine. They completely block out the HVAC, traffic, 60Hz hum, or that the voice is off-axis and hollow. Even after pointing it out they will often miss it the next time. It's not that hard to learn how to listen but trying to learn this in a vacuum with no feedback is very ineffecient at best.

The DVD/video format will be very useful for imparting basic tips and tricks that one can practice on their own. Individual exercises like trying to cut shots with airplanes would be very helpful. Showing how to boom to emphasize the softer speaker could be done well in the video format also.

What I would also put on there is some basic lav placement techniques. The most common request I get off board is how to place lavs. Most people are shocked at how much work and trial & error it takes to get right.

I look forward to seeing this project put into production.
 
If it's something we are going to do, it would be in several volumes, now that I think about it. I'd love to do something about workflow, which is the most overlooked part of the whole process. I'd also like to do something about sound design and sound editing.

-Dave
 
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