Coming with new ways to get around the prosumer design of the HVX

The Sarlacc

Well-known member
Hey all.

I just wrapped up a job as 1st AC on a shoot for Infiniti. The project is for DVDs that will be given to purchasers of new M35/45 and the all new 2007 G35 sedans.

We were basically making the user manual in DVD form.

This is probably the biggest show I have done using our little favortie wonder, the HVX200.

As much as I love this camera I have always had minor grunts with some aspects of the camera when it comes to using it for a more traditional production setting. And this show provided a whole new set of challenges and issues I had to work around, get frusrtated with the DP over, or get the stink eye when I had to inform the DP the camera just didnt do something...

So, a quick break down. I prepped the package at Clairmont Camera in Burbank. A favorite rental house of mine. I had an HVX, 3 8gb cards, a bebob zoom control, and a foxi bebob focus control. The DIT had to prep a AJA A/D converter, an evertz afterburner, a digibeta deck, etc. We had 2 panasonic 17" LCDs and one 24" ECinema display. While waiting for the package to be prepped I had a tech come out and give me a crash course on the new Arri D20....SO HOT!!!

Bascially, we were shooting the HVX and doing live DigiBeta downconverts, which were what to be used byt th epost house to edit. Meanwhile we did a redundant back up on P2 cards with dumps to two hardrives.

Sounds kind of off? Yeah, I think so, too. But I guess the trusted post house of the client isnt set up for P2 or some crazy excuse of that nature.

Other gear included a remote head from Innovision, a 15 ft Technocrane, and Fisher 10 dolly with all the goodies.

My first annoyance....TRUE focus pulling. What a giant pain in the ass with this camera. I seriously hate the infinitiy barrel on the camera. And the fact that the lens was designed for more ENG and single user use more then standard production use it doesnt helped that the scales are highly compressed. So, pulling, ESPECIALLY on close up focus critical elements is not an easy task. A couple times I had to swallow my pride and let autofocus actually take a shot at it.

Rather then go with the Rods set up, I chose to use the Foxi Bebob. The idea was to keep the camera small for when did all the car interior work. I have found that I really like the Foxi. It has hard stops rather then a continous infintity spin like the actual lens barrels. This allowed me to go through the lens and make actual focus and aperture marks on the Foxi. Even better was when I would unplug the unit, and plug it back in it would take me right back to my set mark. In other words, no need to recalibrate and make new marks. PERFECT.

I also had Clairmont make me two 30 ft extension cables for the Foxi ( they had to be made, where the extension cables for the bebob zoom can be bought at any RadioShack.) Once on set, I had the grip dept drill me up a piece of wood so I attached the Foxi and have something resembling a true FIZ unit. It worked pretty well for the most part. My only complaint was yet another cable to the mess. Next time I might try the rods with an actually remore follow focus system.

My biggest issue with the HVX was the compenent analog cables. Clairmont makes their own, replacing the factory RCA connectors with more widely used BNC. They also made like 6ft versions of the cable which is nice. BUT....I went through 3 of these cables in 2 days. They would keep getting shorts in some part of the cable. And I feel bad for the PAs I would have send up to Burbank from Long Beach everyday...at least I always had a back up cable at all times.

This camera would really benefit from HD-SDI. 1) no more wonky, crappy connector that is on the of the camera. 2) no need for the AJA box to convert the signal to HD-SDI...which will eleminate more cabling and crap to have to hang of gear.

I also have a problem with fact that when you use Component connector it shuts off use of the standard RCA video. This screws everyone. Why? because now I can't a signal to a montior to display what is shown on the camera's LCD....information I need like focal distance. Because while the Foxi is great...the lens is so compressed that a millimeter turn on the unit can shift the focus greatly. I NEED to be able to have the camera info displayed on an external source.

The other big problems I have had with the HVX...and all the DPs I have worked with have this issue, two very well known commercial DPs at that is the zoom. The zoom creates a "bump" at the beginning and ending of zooms, and these DPs get PISSED that they zoom smoothly. I know a lot of this has to do with the internal design of the zoom itself, but its a big deal when trying to take this camera seriously for big boy work.

One fix we tried was to create some small amount of drag on the zoom barrel with a small bungie. It helped a little, but if the bungie got too tight it the zoom motor wasnt strong enough to work.

Because of the remote head, AJA, extension cabes, monitor, etc etc etc I had to deal with a GIANT MESS of cables that was a giant pain in my butt. Even when we finally got cables banded and taped togeter it was still a mess. There were always two "snakes" running off the dolly, so I had to move my magliner with the dolly and that was cumbersome. ( The pics you will see only show the set up with the technocrane. Later I decided it would be easier to have the montior, remote head controls, etc on my cart for the DP to operate. Less crap to move.)

It was a great experience, and good show for what the HVX can and can't do.

This camera is so close to being spot on for big boy production, it just needs minor tweaks and revisions. I just keep adding to my list everytime I go out with it and get stuck in new situations.

Either way I am still a big HVX fan. And will be shooting two of my own projects with my own camera next month. If any of the grunts and groans about this camera were ever seriously answered and addressed by Panasonic I could see this camera getting to be very BIG in the mainstream film community.

Enjoy the pics. Personally, I find it hilarious to see this camera flying off a Technocrane.

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Great post Sarlacc, with valid points.
The fact that one year ago you would have used
a varicam or HDCAM says alot about this little
camera. I too hope the next version has an HD-SDI
out and a better zoom mech. I avoid zooms at all
costs..but sometimes you need that quick option,
and it really needs a better zoom controller too.
 
Oh and to add to this. The production was also shooting some internet spots for Nissan on the next stage over...ALL Green Screen...all on the HVX as well.
 
Exellent post - thanx. (Pictures were a bit dark tho')

The monitor with the waveform in one of the pix - is that the Panasonic LH17 W?

Thinking of getting one myself so what do you think of it ?
 
Great post Sarlacc!

I can't get over how the HVX looks on the Techno. I thought it looked weird on a Fisher 10 dolly, but the Techno wins.

MC
 
Its almost perfect. But it also costs about half of a DVCproHD Deck. For that money youre still getting alot. Few snips aside, the rental cost for a Ful varicam set up for 2 days, you can just about buy an HVX. lol.

GREAT post. Glad to see its workking out.
 
TimurCivan said:
Its almost perfect. But it also costs about half of a DVCproHD Deck. For that money youre still getting alot. Few snips aside, the rental cost for a Ful varicam set up for 2 days, you can just about buy an HVX. lol.

GREAT post. Glad to see its workking out.

Varicam was too big to get into the buck cars (the cutaways) to get the shots the director/clients wanted/needed.

That was the whole point of going with the HVX....we also looked at the Iconix camera (Beta 3, only one exists at SIMS) and personally, I think the iconixs is a turd. Good little crash cam or security cam. But it has NO latitude, not even a 1/2 stop.

As for the pictures being dark...it was a dark set, what can I say. I won't use a flash, more trouble then its a worth. I am thinking of upgrading my SD400 to a SD700 for the higher ISO and IS functions, which should help a lot when taking set snaps.

The panny monitor is great. I have used it on multiple shows now for both HD and film. I don't own one. But I get them from rental all the time. Next show I hope to get the bigger one.
 
oh i wasnt suggesting you get a varicam, lol. I was just saying it does so much for such littel money. :)
 
TimurCivan said:
oh i wasnt suggesting you get a varicam, lol. I was just saying it does so much for such littel money. :)

Oh, true true.

I just gotta figure out better ways to deal with all the annoying cables for next time.

I didn't love the Innovision remote either. Yeah, it was tiny. But the motors got HOT. I don't how many times myself, the DP, or a grip burnt their wrists on the things trying to make an adjustment. Its also very noisy, and very finnicky.
 
Excelent post, Sarlacc! What workflow where you guys thinking for Post? DIgibeta? I found out that the best results were to shoot DVCPRO HD, convert the files to dvcpro HD tape, than capture trough HD-SDI from the DVCPRO HD deck to a HD Uncompressed Post production workflow. Just downconvert everything at the end, keeping an HD master. (after titles, Telecine, etc.)

I'm working on a project now (just finished, actually) that went digibeta to Uncompressed 10 bit (SD) for editing and TC. The end result wasn't as sharp as the other HD edited Commercial in final SD form.

Anyway, really love the lighting and the look of the spot. Camera settings? (Scene file?)
 
I wasn't thinking anything for post. Again, I was just the 1st. None of that was in my hands. It was all thought out by everyone prior to my being hired.

They were doing live digibeta converts on stage. As we rolled on P2, the DIT was rolling on a digibeta deck running through an Evertz Afterbuner.

I had the production coordinator (who had P2 experience) back up the cards to his two hard drives.

I don't think the post house was able to use the P2 format or some other excuse like that. This is what they wanted, its what they got.

This is the 2nd HD job I've had where they wanted live Digibeta downconverting. The other was with a F900 and I was the 1st/DIT...

I think its a flawed idea with crappy results. In fact, the the company with the F900 job...ended up having to pay to get ALL the HD re-downconverted anyway (tracking issue with the deck, and they never specified if they wanted the downconvert in 4:3 or 16:9 squeezed)

Anyway, it was their call. They'll do what they want with it. I made sure they had the P2 files if they realize that is the best way to do it...specially since there is going to be some heavy post/graphics work.
 
The Sarlacc said:
I wasn't thinking anything for post. Again, I was just the 1st. None of that was in my hands. It was all thought out by everyone prior to my being hired.

They were doing live digibeta converts on stage. As we rolled on P2, the DIT was rolling on a digibeta deck running through an Evertz Afterbuner.

I had the production coordinator (who had P2 experience) back up the cards to his two hard drives.

I don't think the post house was able to use the P2 format or some other excuse like that. This is what they wanted, its what they got.

This is the 2nd HD job I've had where they wanted live Digibeta downconverting. The other was with a F900 and I was the 1st/DIT...

I think its a flawed idea with crappy results. In fact, the the company with the F900 job...ended up having to pay to get ALL the HD re-downconverted anyway (tracking issue with the deck, and they never specified if they wanted the downconvert in 4:3 or 16:9 squeezed)

Anyway, it was their call. They'll do what they want with it. I made sure they had the P2 files if they realize that is the best way to do it...specially since there is going to be some heavy post/graphics work.

Yes. I think the major complain with the Post house I went is that the Da Vinci system as well as Smoke didn't accept P2 files natively. Panasonic, are you listening? :)

The other post house converted everything to HDCAM and worked from there.
 
I was just saying it does so much for such little money

I don't think the issues addressed need SO much money.

Instead of a component output circuit, Panasonic should use a DVI/HDMI circuit. Chances are they are cheaper, being used in every graphic card made in the last years.

About the lens, it seems the weak link. Not in quality, but in "usability"/control. Why don't make it better in HVX200mkII??

If they add a HD-codec to record HD to tape, HVX200mkII could be really ahead. Making it better will benefit all of us, but mostly Panasonic, which will sell a lot more...
 
videoteque73 said:
I don't think the issues addressed need SO much money.

Instead of a component output circuit, Panasonic should use a DVI/HDMI circuit. Chances are they are cheaper, being used in every graphic card made in the last years.

About the lens, it seems the weak link. Not in quality, but in "usability"/control. Why don't make it better in HVX200mkII??

If they add a HD-codec to record HD to tape, HVX200mkII could be really ahead. Making it better will benefit all of us, but mostly Panasonic, which will sell a lot more...

DVI/HDMI is a consumer input. Again it does the professional field no good. HD-SDI is the way to go. Yes..HDMI is capable of more data transfer...but no pro- decks have it, and the doesn't need it.

I never dissed the quality of the lens. just the engineering...same as the DVX.it might just be something that is inherent to the designing a lens that small. Its a totally mechanical lens, not analog with motors attached.

As for an HD-Codec to tape selling more. I dont think panasonic is worried about that, and I would HATE to see panasonic even offer HDV as an option.
 
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