Maybe stupid question - When recording with P2 the cam gives you a content folder and inside there are some more folders, as far as i understood one needs to archive all. When recording with DV rack, lets say quicktime, it is just one file, namely a quicktime file. Is this file than the master file, with 2 audio channels that i can move from one drive to another without there being any kind of problem or other files that need to be saved? As in the problem you have when you separate the contents folder elements from the P2. And is this file the file i use to edit my master? Do these question make sense?
Serious Magic Announces the DVCProHD Decoder for Sony® Vegas® and Adobe® Premiere®
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Barry_Green
Moderator
If you record with DV Rack, only one file is created (whether .AVI or .MOV, your choice). That one file is your master file and can be copied wherever, etc. There are no separate folders or directories because DV Rack doesn't record MXF files.
Thank you Barry. If editing in final cut, is there a quality difference between formats or is any one format better than others. Which one is the way to go? Also does Dv rack record exactly what the camera is set to, as in (1080/25p at shutter 1/50) would be the same both on P2 and DV rack. When decoding P2 with there decoder, does the same thing happen, the decoder gives you a quicktime? Can you throw away the original HVX file and just keep the QT? Are there likely to be glitches when decoding MXF files?
Barry_Green
Moderator
In all cases you'll get exactly the same thing, as far as video and audio data, whether you chose to record to hard disk or the P2, whether you used FCP's import tool or Serious Magic's decoder, in all cases you'll get exactly the same results.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Oh, another difference -- the converter only copies over two audio tracks, and the live capture only records two audio tracks. If you're using channels 3 & 4 with the converter, it's your responsibility to copy them off, near as I can tell.
What I was referencing was the video data, but the audio is apparently treated separately and differently.
What I was referencing was the video data, but the audio is apparently treated separately and differently.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Well, there you have it straight from the company's mouth. Anybody who wants DV Rack 2.0 HD -- there's a great loophole to take advantage of, as long as B&H (or anyone else) still has stock of DV Rack 1.0 + HDV PowerPak.
Jason Scott
Active member
Maybe I shoot/do things out of the ordinary. I'm fine with that situation, because it has worked very, very well for me in the past.
I shoot using my camera on mostly interview setups and background/landscape shots. I don't do fiction film, just documentary.
My last film ended up shooting 250 hours of footage, on as many Mini-DV tapes. I edited it using Video Vegas (which became Sony Vegas halfway through, to my great chagrin).
The workflow was this:
- Pull in 12gb Mini-DV tape file using tape capture utility
- Load entire timeline into Vegas
- Select salient statements and phrases from interview
- Save off each selected phrase in an .AVI file, named with info on its contents
- Delete 12gb file, store tape, keep 1-8gb collection of clips in folder.
Later:
- Arrange massive folders of clip files into general headings based on subject
- Arrange headings into possibilities for different sequences
- Edit edit edit
- Profit
This approach was the best for me because it left the most flexibility in being a chef at the end and having all the main ingredients at the end without having to back into the deep dark for tapes. I would just buy tons of USB drives and keep the clips there; I think it worked out to something like a terabyte and a half of data, all told, and I split that across a bunch of drives and obviously kept even more drives for backups, etc. So I was happy, and the final product was great.
So here I am in the 21st century with Marvin the Martian, flying cars and the HVX-200. Produces MXF files and also puts it all into a big folder so in fact you have this little collection of files and not just a .AVI. Fine, fine, I'll figure it out.
Obviously the fact that Vegas and the stuff coming out of the P2 card don't play nice has been one of my big disappointments, and makes me feel dark forebodings for how Vegas will be in the future as it becomes more Sony-fied and starts only doing things with Sony equipment. I stab myself in the eye with an ice-cream scoop before I buy Sony hardware again.
That all aside, a number of these folks have gone ahead and come up with bridging applications where I take the P2 output and do "stuff" to it, resulting in a format that I can then use to do stuff in Vegas.
However, in both cases, I'm not overly blown away.
I discovered the hard way that Raylight has a location-based codec. This is, quite simply, the most insane thing I've ever heard of. Move your files, and it stops working? It's like buying fairy dust. Since I store my data on USB drives, I sometimes unplug them and replug them in, in different configurations. Vegas handles this by letting me say "yeah, the files are over on this drive now" and it "resyncs" within seconds. But thanks to this crazy location-based codec, it goes gray. I mean, come on.
Now this new product came out, and claimed it was faster, and that it would do the job right. So I plunked down my cash ($195 is significant) and got the program and started using it.
Immediately, I could see the output was square pixels, black bands on the side and the sound was screwed up. This was notably different, where I dropped the stuff in, it took a while to chew, and the resultant AVIs were basically ready to go.
It's already been explained in here how in fact I am somehow not magically looking at a screwed-up image, and in fact I'm looking at the true image, and that if I didn't want a small square-pixelled version of what I was seeing in my camera, it's my fault for not knowing my camera. OK, fine.
However, the sound is also screwed up. Chipmunky. Less than half-speed.
I've now gone through tech support and have had it explained to me that this is because I made the huge mistake of shooting in native mode. You know, one of those basic fundamental features of the HVX-200 that enables me to get extra minutes out of the 4gb cards I shoot on and this vastly overpriced P2 Store I bought. The solution presented was "don't shoot in native mode".
Yes, that is a fantastic idea; let's cut 30 minutes out of total capacity I can store on the P2 Store when I'm interviewing somebody out in the field, because it's been explained to me that 720/PN is way above and beyond this 8 megabyte, $200 program I have sitting on the editing machine.
So basically, I am looking for Raylight's "just work" approach without their insane location-based codec, and Serious Magic's speed without its inability to handle anything shot native, and with the ability to, you know, get that hot "widescreen" I've been hearing a lot about lately.
File me under "bitter".
The shots look great, though. That keeps me from jumping in front of a Wal-mart truck.
I shoot using my camera on mostly interview setups and background/landscape shots. I don't do fiction film, just documentary.
My last film ended up shooting 250 hours of footage, on as many Mini-DV tapes. I edited it using Video Vegas (which became Sony Vegas halfway through, to my great chagrin).
The workflow was this:
- Pull in 12gb Mini-DV tape file using tape capture utility
- Load entire timeline into Vegas
- Select salient statements and phrases from interview
- Save off each selected phrase in an .AVI file, named with info on its contents
- Delete 12gb file, store tape, keep 1-8gb collection of clips in folder.
Later:
- Arrange massive folders of clip files into general headings based on subject
- Arrange headings into possibilities for different sequences
- Edit edit edit
- Profit
This approach was the best for me because it left the most flexibility in being a chef at the end and having all the main ingredients at the end without having to back into the deep dark for tapes. I would just buy tons of USB drives and keep the clips there; I think it worked out to something like a terabyte and a half of data, all told, and I split that across a bunch of drives and obviously kept even more drives for backups, etc. So I was happy, and the final product was great.
So here I am in the 21st century with Marvin the Martian, flying cars and the HVX-200. Produces MXF files and also puts it all into a big folder so in fact you have this little collection of files and not just a .AVI. Fine, fine, I'll figure it out.
Obviously the fact that Vegas and the stuff coming out of the P2 card don't play nice has been one of my big disappointments, and makes me feel dark forebodings for how Vegas will be in the future as it becomes more Sony-fied and starts only doing things with Sony equipment. I stab myself in the eye with an ice-cream scoop before I buy Sony hardware again.
That all aside, a number of these folks have gone ahead and come up with bridging applications where I take the P2 output and do "stuff" to it, resulting in a format that I can then use to do stuff in Vegas.
However, in both cases, I'm not overly blown away.
I discovered the hard way that Raylight has a location-based codec. This is, quite simply, the most insane thing I've ever heard of. Move your files, and it stops working? It's like buying fairy dust. Since I store my data on USB drives, I sometimes unplug them and replug them in, in different configurations. Vegas handles this by letting me say "yeah, the files are over on this drive now" and it "resyncs" within seconds. But thanks to this crazy location-based codec, it goes gray. I mean, come on.
Now this new product came out, and claimed it was faster, and that it would do the job right. So I plunked down my cash ($195 is significant) and got the program and started using it.
Immediately, I could see the output was square pixels, black bands on the side and the sound was screwed up. This was notably different, where I dropped the stuff in, it took a while to chew, and the resultant AVIs were basically ready to go.
It's already been explained in here how in fact I am somehow not magically looking at a screwed-up image, and in fact I'm looking at the true image, and that if I didn't want a small square-pixelled version of what I was seeing in my camera, it's my fault for not knowing my camera. OK, fine.
However, the sound is also screwed up. Chipmunky. Less than half-speed.
I've now gone through tech support and have had it explained to me that this is because I made the huge mistake of shooting in native mode. You know, one of those basic fundamental features of the HVX-200 that enables me to get extra minutes out of the 4gb cards I shoot on and this vastly overpriced P2 Store I bought. The solution presented was "don't shoot in native mode".
Yes, that is a fantastic idea; let's cut 30 minutes out of total capacity I can store on the P2 Store when I'm interviewing somebody out in the field, because it's been explained to me that 720/PN is way above and beyond this 8 megabyte, $200 program I have sitting on the editing machine.
So basically, I am looking for Raylight's "just work" approach without their insane location-based codec, and Serious Magic's speed without its inability to handle anything shot native, and with the ability to, you know, get that hot "widescreen" I've been hearing a lot about lately.
File me under "bitter".
The shots look great, though. That keeps me from jumping in front of a Wal-mart truck.
Barry_Green
Moderator
All you have to do with the files in Vegas is set the proper pixel aspect ratio; in 720p you use 1.333, in 1080 you use 1.500. That'll get rid of the squishing and the black bars.
And unless I'm mistaken, Marcus plans on offering a self-contained option for the Raymaker output files so the location-based thing will become a thing of the past.
As for the audio, I love Serious Magic but come on, that's just silly. They should fix that, no question.
And unless I'm mistaken, Marcus plans on offering a self-contained option for the Raymaker output files so the location-based thing will become a thing of the past.
As for the audio, I love Serious Magic but come on, that's just silly. They should fix that, no question.
Steve Shovlar
DVXuser Sponsor
KarlSoule said:
Yes thats exactly what I did. Went to B&H website on Friday, purchased dvrack and the hdv Powerpak upgrade, it arrived Monday morinng in the UK, then went and got the $99 upgrade to dvrack HD 2.0.
Totally legit and saved me a fortune. Only bummer was that customs got the package and charged me £55 before they would let mew have it!
Still saved a small fortune though and I have been using dvrack HD2.0 this afternoon in the garden.
Just one thing though. When using yor laptop outdoors, you really must invest in a sun sheild for it, so that you can see the monitor clearly. They are cheap and can be purchased off ebay for $19.95
KarlSoule
Active member
Hi Barry,
Agreed on the audio problem with 24PN clips. It is something we intend on fixing.
Right now, we recommend using 24PA mode if you plan on converting with the Serious Magic Decoder. The batch converter will remove the pulldown frames, and your resulting AVI or QuickTime files will be 24PN files. I realize that this uses up more space on the P2 cards, but the resulting clips are identical (and the audio works.)
Agreed on the audio problem with 24PN clips. It is something we intend on fixing.
Right now, we recommend using 24PA mode if you plan on converting with the Serious Magic Decoder. The batch converter will remove the pulldown frames, and your resulting AVI or QuickTime files will be 24PN files. I realize that this uses up more space on the P2 cards, but the resulting clips are identical (and the audio works.)
Jason Scott
Active member
KarlSoule said:
I wish I was Barry. I'd be 100x cooler than I am right now.
As mentioned in my previous letter, I am not going to sacrifice 20 percent of my recording time to work with your silly converter as it stands. My documentary shoots all this year and next. If I'm interviewing, say, the guy who wrote the Choose Your Own Adventure series of books, and I'm basically the only person who's ever interviewed him on video, then I'm not going to throw away up to a half hour of storage because a program told me it was too much to handle. So no.
Your program comes with no documentation. I'm sure you engineers are so proud of your program that it's obvious how to use it and so it doesn't need documentation, but it does. I take a P2 card's contents, throw it through your sausage factory and it comes out bozo. Write up something with just a few hints to make it not Bozo. $200 deserves more than what came.
Jason Scott
Active member
Quick follow up, I see that Barry mentioned the thing I mentioned; I assumed that my comment about the audio got the reaction, but I see it was Barry responding that got the reaction. My mistake/apologies, it really was to Barry.
The rest stands. I agree that the actual 'fix' to make it go from being bozo to not bozo is very minimal. However, they don't document it as being something that happens, and it's the default in Vegas. That's a little silly, and easily fixed.
The rest stands. I agree that the actual 'fix' to make it go from being bozo to not bozo is very minimal. However, they don't document it as being something that happens, and it's the default in Vegas. That's a little silly, and easily fixed.
Jason Scott
Active member
Barry_Green said:
I purchased Raylight at the beginning of this year. It's now September, more like nearly end of September. There have been no changes/releases to Raylight since version 1.04 was released in March. So that's six months to fix what I consider a fatal flaw in the codec (and a flaw that requires twice the disk space).
I'm sure everyone's a buddy but this is weak.