Sony's new HDV camera (does 1080/24p)

[Kholi]

Well, I'm thinking about it like this: SDI is a digital signal transfer device, and so is firewire. SDI is used on big decks and such, and is expensive; firewire is dirt cheap. I wonder if HDMI won't be the "firewire" equivalent to HD-SDI? It sure seems like it would.

That's the comparison I was thinking of. It's Sony's hi-def standard which, in all honesty, is pretty damned good. Capturing straight to a hard-disk is pretty neat. I'm wondering when someone'll tap it and make a Firestore solution that caters to the V1s HDMI out. Tasty.

The Intensity/Blackmagic site is claiming that you get 1920x1080 instead of 1440 HDV size. How is this possible when the camera itself processes 1440 to tape? Here's the link: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/quality/ Here's the EXACT quote from the site:

Intensity uses full resolution HDTV which is a massive 1920 x 1080 pixels for every video frame. HDV only uses 1440 pixels wide due to the limitations of the small cassette tapes used, and the FireWire speeds build into the cameras. However new cameras being released such as the Sony HDR-HC3 with built in HDMI video output, allow access the raw uncompressed video from the CCD directly. That provides incredible quality. Or if you're capturing off HDV tape, you can still enjoy editing video in full resolution, so your graphics and effects look sharp, because only uncompressed video eliminates the horizontal scaling that’s required when rendering HDV footage with graphics and effects.

It's probably a stupid question but it sounds like the HDMI out is similar to Andromeda? (minus the 4:4:4 capabilities and all).

DVi is the only thing I've ever seen come close to HDMi quality and granted, while they're pretty much similar they're both much better than an Analog signal. If you're able to build a tethered solution for "uncompressed" HDMI around a 250.00 Blackmagic card?

Yeah... well... I'm not so certain about dropping my saved up 5k for the A1 anymore (camera cost + accessories).

Though, HDMI cables are expensive as hell. >=\ Just imagine having to find one at a twenty-foot (20') length at a reasonable price that'll still retain high quality?

 

[Barry_Green]

I'm wondering when someone'll tap it and make a Firestore solution that caters to the V1s HDMI out. Tasty.

My particular guess on that is it'll happen when Movie Master has to put on a coat. (i.e., when hell freezes over). HDMI is uncompressed high def at something around 1.5 to 2 gigabits per second (or, in other words, 200 to 250 megabytes per second). It's gonna be a long, long time before we have a portable hard drive that can handle that data rate. I mean, right now we've got the CineForm Wafian device and it's something like $15,000 and it uses compression. If you want to store uncompressed, it's going to take a lot of horsepower (like a six-drive SATA raid perhaps) and that isn't going to be put in the FireStore form factor anytime soon! (okay, maybe five years or so, but not anytime real soon).

The Intensity/Blackmagic site is claiming that you get 1920x1080 instead of 1440 HDV size. How is this possible when the camera itself processes 1440 to tape?

Don't know. Especially because according to Sony's brochure, the HDMI output of the camera is 1440x1080.

It's probably a stupid question but it sounds like the HDMI out is similar to Andromeda? (minus the 4:4:4 capabilities and all).

Well, no, it's the same output that goes to HDV, it's just uncompressed. Andromeda taps into the chips before they're digitized and it bypasses all internal processing. The HDMI output is after all internal processing, and after it's been downrezzed (or gone through a "resolution conversion process" according to Sony's brochure).

If you're able to build a tethered solution for "uncompressed" HDMI around a 250.00 Blackmagic card?

You should be, but it's going to take more than just a $250 card. It'll take equivalent hardware as what's necessary to store HD-SDI, the difference is that instead of an HD-SDI board you use an HDMI board. But all the rest of the chain (PCIe bus, RAID, etc) is all still necessary.

Yeah... well... I'm not so certain about dropping my saved up 5k for the A1 anymore (camera cost + accessories).

I said this back when the A1 was first introduced and everyone said "that's it, this is the holy grail, everything else is obsolete": let the other shoe drop. New innovations come through all the time, and back in July or whenever it was that the A1 was announced, I said it was a long, long way 'til October. And so now, another shoe has dropped. It might be the last one for a while I guess; JVC's already announced their product months ago, and Jan said she doesn't know if Panasonic will have anything this year (although Nordahl predicted that they would have something in October). The point is, buy what you need when you need it. But don't buy it until you need it.

 

[Kholi]

Grreaaaattt response.

On the tethered solution: of course. I had already priced out a few parts to build a Cube PC for the A1 and I have a few places I can get necessaries for a great price. My initial plan, though, was to spend upwards 500+ for a card to capture Analog from the A1's analog out. Now it's 250 for the V1u's HDMI out.

Go figure.

Sounds great either way. I'm not ruling out the A1 by any means, but it's cool to know that Sony's an actual option.

 

[Barry_Green]

Sounds great either way. I'm not ruling out the A1 by any means, but it's cool to know that Sony's an actual option.

It's a different option. CMOS vs. CCD, 1/4" vs. 1/3", progressive vs. interlaced, 24p vs. 24f, deck compatibility (but having to remove pulldown) vs. no pulldown but also no deck compatibility, HDMI vs. ... hmmm, well score one uncontested for Sony there, but then again 4800 vs. 3999...

But there's a lot we don't know. Sensitivity? Noise? Chromatic aberrations? Color? "rolling shutter" effect?

It'll be interesting to see how this one plays out.

 

[Kholi]

It's a different option. CMOS vs. CCD, 1/4" vs. 1/3", progressive vs. interlaced, 24p vs. 24f, deck compatibility (but having to remove pulldown) vs. no pulldown but also no deck compatibility, HDMI vs. ... hmmm, well score one uncontested for Sony there, but then again 4800 vs. 3999...

But there's a lot we don't know. Sensitivity? Noise? Chromatic aberrations? Color? "rolling shutter" effect?

It'll be interesting to see how this one plays out.

Way to fan the battle flames. I guess the G1's SDI vs HDMI but then again that's not an accurate comparison. G1 is thousands more.

So.. yeah.. score one for the Sony obviously. Had I not have read about uncompressed HDMi then I would've probably overlooked the camera.

I'm still curious as to why the Blackmagic site is claiming 1920 from the CCD of the HC3. Huh. We'll see.