Forever War (Short Film)
- Thread starter Drew599
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hoofandmouf
Well-known member
dougspice, I tend to agree with all of what your saying
however....
perhaps drew knows his limitations and knows exactly what HE wants as a filmmaker.... he feels there are certain elements that he knows he's lacking in, some of it works well for what HE wants.... i'm not saying that Sodebergh couldnt do a better job, of course he could.... but drew made a short film that works for him and he did it in a very short amount of time with no budget and a scrawny crew.... there are things that I dont like about the film (many of the things you pointed out) but drew gets my respect for going out and making what he thinks is a rocking short film... plus it takes a certain amount of balls/backbone to use live ammo and not be scared sh*tless of a firearm.... he used what he had to, to get the job done.... and for that he gets props from me
however....
perhaps drew knows his limitations and knows exactly what HE wants as a filmmaker.... he feels there are certain elements that he knows he's lacking in, some of it works well for what HE wants.... i'm not saying that Sodebergh couldnt do a better job, of course he could.... but drew made a short film that works for him and he did it in a very short amount of time with no budget and a scrawny crew.... there are things that I dont like about the film (many of the things you pointed out) but drew gets my respect for going out and making what he thinks is a rocking short film... plus it takes a certain amount of balls/backbone to use live ammo and not be scared sh*tless of a firearm.... he used what he had to, to get the job done.... and for that he gets props from me
ShamrockFilms
Well-known member
hoofandmouf said:
There is a term for that kind of filmmaker. Its called GUERRILLA. I am a guerrilla filmmaker and a very proud one.
Guerrilla filmmaking is all about grabbing your balls with one hand and your camera with the other. Permits? Permits are for pussies. Big budgets? Big budgets are only to throw money at problems instead of using your creativity to solve them.
"This is the old days, the bad days, the all or nothing days!"
-- Marv, Sin City
I think we all need to think a little more like Marv and go back to the old days, the days where nothing mattered.
-- Marv, Sin City
I think we all need to think a little more like Marv and go back to the old days, the days where nothing mattered.
Dougspice are you kidding me? I knew I shouldn't have started with this. You think he should've spent more time getting his point across and not use text? See the flaw here is that's how you feel, not how it should be. He made the film the way he wanted. I don't think he was trying to cram a message down people's throats, he was making a 5 minute action short right? Should it have been ten minutes with more set up and pay off? Maybe for you but that's you. Should everything ever made be made solely for you? Do you understand it's not about taking criticsm, drew seemed to handle that well, it's about making the film he wanted to make as best he could.
Back to right and wrong..... if you took two pages of dialouge and gave them to 5 major directors and told them to film the scene do you think they would all be the same? And if not which one would be the correct one? The one that you like the most?
And how do you know Soderberg would do so much better? He's a talented guy and the cards are stacked in his favor but how do you know? When was the last time he used an HVX200, had two days to film a scene like that with four crew members, two of which were also his actors? If you ask me I think he might be a little out of his element and have a hard time.
And yes there are good films and bad films and a hell of a lot of marginal films that many people love and many hate.... again, it's all subjective.
Back to right and wrong..... if you took two pages of dialouge and gave them to 5 major directors and told them to film the scene do you think they would all be the same? And if not which one would be the correct one? The one that you like the most?
And how do you know Soderberg would do so much better? He's a talented guy and the cards are stacked in his favor but how do you know? When was the last time he used an HVX200, had two days to film a scene like that with four crew members, two of which were also his actors? If you ask me I think he might be a little out of his element and have a hard time.
And yes there are good films and bad films and a hell of a lot of marginal films that many people love and many hate.... again, it's all subjective.
Drew599
Veteran
Okay, so here's what I was trying to do with this short so that there's no missunderstanding. I wanted to make something very quick that has guns in it. That's it. So I came up with this story in a day. I also wanted it to be as short as possible. That's the reason why the text is at the end of it. I could have gone on for a while and maybe had something in the beginning to show a criptic death of the solider or something like that. But that would have made it longer than I wanted it to be.
Also to compair my skills to Steve Soderberg's is just crazy. He wish on his best day he could make something like this...jk. But still to compair him and I or me to any director that works for the studios just doesn't make any sense. They have been doing this for much longer than I have and they have all these resources that I don't. It would be very interesting to take those guys out of the environment they are use to and put them in a situation where they are doing everything themselves like I had to do for this.
Doug you make me laugh. If you think that there is only two ways to make a film, the right and the wrong way. Then you have a very narrow view of the world. Also not everyone likes the films that Scorcese, Spielberg and whoever makes. I like some of their movies but not all of them. Sometimes things turn out the exact way you want them to and other times they don't. Plus those directors, especially Spielberg have learn how to make movies that everyone loves because they try and please everyone. But in doing so you make a movie that doesn't say anything and the people are just watching stuff happen instead of projecting themselves into the story. I like films that make me think about my life and show me something that I haven't thought of before.
Also to compair my skills to Steve Soderberg's is just crazy. He wish on his best day he could make something like this...jk. But still to compair him and I or me to any director that works for the studios just doesn't make any sense. They have been doing this for much longer than I have and they have all these resources that I don't. It would be very interesting to take those guys out of the environment they are use to and put them in a situation where they are doing everything themselves like I had to do for this.
Doug you make me laugh. If you think that there is only two ways to make a film, the right and the wrong way. Then you have a very narrow view of the world. Also not everyone likes the films that Scorcese, Spielberg and whoever makes. I like some of their movies but not all of them. Sometimes things turn out the exact way you want them to and other times they don't. Plus those directors, especially Spielberg have learn how to make movies that everyone loves because they try and please everyone. But in doing so you make a movie that doesn't say anything and the people are just watching stuff happen instead of projecting themselves into the story. I like films that make me think about my life and show me something that I haven't thought of before.
Drew599
Veteran
Doug, now I know why you feel the way you do about my short. You came out of USC. I'm not trying to say that all people that come out of there are a certain way. But the ones that I've run into seem to think they know everything about making film and the right way to do it. Maybe I've just had bad run-ins.
hoofandmouf
Well-known member
ShamrockFilms said:
word.
ShamrockFilms
Well-known member
Nice work Drew.
Liked your shot choices, framing and use of available light given the tight schedule. This looks great, and you can't achieve this sort of quality with a HVX without skill. I thought the acting from the lead was pretty good considering his rookie status. I liked his quick look away when he saw his body. It gave an emotional hint for me.
I didn't like the music (in a big way). If your protag was showing regret and/or sadness in the above mentioned scene then a heroic, sentimental score really kills this vibe (something darker, more spare perhaps?). Agree with other poster that villain is introduced too quickly, both visually and aurally. It's jarring, and also hurts the theme you were developing (if I got that right). These could be 2 different shorts. I also agree that this needs to be longer if you want to successfully portray the theme.
Again, good job considering the tight time frame. I've spent 6 months developing a short that will run 8 minutes, so there's a lesson in here for me.
Liked your shot choices, framing and use of available light given the tight schedule. This looks great, and you can't achieve this sort of quality with a HVX without skill. I thought the acting from the lead was pretty good considering his rookie status. I liked his quick look away when he saw his body. It gave an emotional hint for me.
I didn't like the music (in a big way). If your protag was showing regret and/or sadness in the above mentioned scene then a heroic, sentimental score really kills this vibe (something darker, more spare perhaps?). Agree with other poster that villain is introduced too quickly, both visually and aurally. It's jarring, and also hurts the theme you were developing (if I got that right). These could be 2 different shorts. I also agree that this needs to be longer if you want to successfully portray the theme.
Again, good job considering the tight time frame. I've spent 6 months developing a short that will run 8 minutes, so there's a lesson in here for me.
dougspice
Veteran
Drew599 said:
Oh come on, man. I could make as many complaints about USC students as you could. We're not all of one mind, not by a long shot. The thing is, I think anyone who's serious about this stuff thinks they know the right way to do it, whether you went to school or not.
The thing bluegrey doesn't seem to acknowledge is if you took a dozen filmmakers and sent them out with any given script, you'd get a dozen very different films. Some would be good, some would be bad. Some would be exactly the script and nothing more. But if you sat down everyone in a room to watch them all, there would be consensus. Most people would agree, "these 3 were really good," "that one was terrible," and so on. There would be exceptions, but it's absolutely ridiculous to say that everything is subjective. It's not. There's a reason why the vanishing point and the rule of thirds and the sense of pacing have developed. Even art abides by subconscious judgments.
This isn't just theory, either. Twice a year I run a film festival that's very similar to what I've just described. I encourage any of you in LA to participate. It's a lot of fun, and if most of the movies looked as good as Drew's here, I'd be pretty thrilled. But people always agree on which films were good and which were bad. There aren't many surprises.
I DON'T think there's only two ways to make a film. There's a lot of ways to make a film. But at the end of the day you can still take almost all of those and put them on either the GOOD side or the BAD side. There's a quote from David Fincher that goes something like this: "Some people look at a script and say, there's a thousand different ways to shoot this. I don't. I look at a script and there's only ONE way that makes any sense." I think that's exaggeration, but it's also vision... and vision is what makes memorable films.
ShamrockFilms
Well-known member
I think passion for your vision is what makes memorable films.
ShamrockFilms
Well-known member
The opening music was great and it was a good choice of music. It must be killer on surround sound and a big widescreen TV. I think the action music could have come in a little slower though.
Here's what I think the movie was about....
A dead soldier. When he's walking down the street in the opening, he's dead but he doesn't know it. There are no cars, no people, only birds. It was like he wanted to fill his canteen only because it was empty, not because he needed water. Then he saw a man from the back dead in the water, a man that looked like him. The action sequence is him remembering how he died. The knife never enters his killers body because he's dreaming it, remembering. In the end we only see him dead in the water. He's no longer looking at himself from the outside because he has accepted his death and moved on to the after life.
That's what I thought. What did you think it was about?
Here's what I think the movie was about....
A dead soldier. When he's walking down the street in the opening, he's dead but he doesn't know it. There are no cars, no people, only birds. It was like he wanted to fill his canteen only because it was empty, not because he needed water. Then he saw a man from the back dead in the water, a man that looked like him. The action sequence is him remembering how he died. The knife never enters his killers body because he's dreaming it, remembering. In the end we only see him dead in the water. He's no longer looking at himself from the outside because he has accepted his death and moved on to the after life.
That's what I thought. What did you think it was about?
Drew599
Veteran
Doug, I never said that I knew the right way to make a film. All I have is my way and that's it. Its the way how I would want to see things on the screen. To be honest I'm about 70% happy with the way the short turned out. There are cuts, shots and sounds that I'm not exactly happy with. But its something I'm going to have to live with. There will always be another project I can do somewhere down the line. As long as I can take away something from every short I've made I believe that I'm learning something and it will show in future projects.
Also again, this was just something I threw together. I went out there with no storyboards and we changed things on the fly. That whole knife throw sequence was added in at the last minute. I plan on the next thing to be much better. Next month is when I'm planning on shooting it around Burbank in the middle of the night.
Also again, this was just something I threw together. I went out there with no storyboards and we changed things on the fly. That whole knife throw sequence was added in at the last minute. I plan on the next thing to be much better. Next month is when I'm planning on shooting it around Burbank in the middle of the night.
ShamrockFilms
Well-known member
Drew599 said:
Sweet. Love the premise.
ShamrockFilms
Well-known member
Drew599 said:
I noticed a cool sound when the soldier unsheathed his knife before he threw it at the guy against the tree. You should make that sound nice and loud. That's a great sound FX.
I don't start shooting my movie until November. So you'll have to deal with me enjoying yours until then! haha.
Rakesh Jacob
Veteran
Thank GOD for all the Film Nazis that tell us how to properly make films...We would be lost without you guys:dankk2: