HD DVD sales not good

Cheesesailor77 said:
I think it had more to do with cost and the fact that I had to "switch sides" 8 times to watch Aliens!

There's a reason there was a greater marketing push. DVD was a better product.
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With an A/B player you could have cut that down to 4. :) Switching was annoying on some of the longer movies (I have the Aliens Special Edition too) but alot of DVD's have poor layer switching which I find to be far more annoying. You also didn't find the compression artifacts on laserdisc which were epidemic on early DVD's. At the time, laserdisc were, IMHO, still better then DVD's. Laserdisc were around for over 10 years prior to DVD's and regardless of whether DVD were, in fact, better, laserdiscs were WAY better then VHS.

Also, most people didn't even quite know what a laserdisc was, much less know you had to switch sides. So that negative didn't even come into play for people.

When I had people over they were always confused by my laserdisc system and HATED the 16x9 bars ("the picture is smaller") but I had an awesome surround sound set-up that won them over.

Cheers
 
Yep, I must admit, I was in heaven watching the Aliens special edition in the early '90s. Even if I had to walk to the player every 15 minutes. :)
 
I think HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are gonna flop big time. I've heard rumors about Netflix switching to a broadband download service, basically you have a netflix download box, you have films in a list that download overnight, you watch, delete it, and the next one downloads.

With high speed internet I would choose paying twenty bucks a month to have access to thousands of movies versus buying a new format and starting my collection from zero. I don't need to have a library of DVDs on a shelf, and it makes moving that much more of a pain. HD broadband film downloads...that's where it's at. :)

I think this format will fit right in with the Tivo crowd.
 
I dont think download services will ever succeed. Its just a teensy bit too complicated for some users.
 
Cynic821 said:
I dont think download services will ever succeed. Its just a teensy bit too complicated for some users.
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Ever? Of course it'll get there. Download services are the future. Like "Plastics".

Think about mp3.com, and napster, and then iTunes. Now just do the same for video. It'll be massive. Yes there are incredible technological hurdles to overcome, but it'll get there.
 
Well, ya, true. But I think the services that will continue to block download are On Demand stuff. When they can actually and finally get everything in HD on demand, then ill be happy as hell. It would eliminate the need for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD in the home, unless you dont want the artifacts, but i think the on demand stuff on the big screen will be the key.

Sept 12 is rolling around though, and a 23inch iMac 1080p with HD movie downloads would be fit perfect in my bedroom. :)

Thats the rumor and im gunna wish. If apple did it i would jump on board, but for me for some reason, netflix is no good, and downloading SD movies is no good. Im just born for HD and when the content comes through in an on demand service i would definatly like it.

Sound like me with the correction on the never and ever thing barry. :P I do that, but just slipped this time and got lazy with my wording, I do my best to not use absolute words like Cant, Never, Always, and so on. Because its just not true.
 
I hear ya, but... Netflix is "no good"? Netflix is probably the single most brilliant new-internet business. The business model is fantastic. It works. Netflix is destroying the whole video-store video-rental business.

I think NetFlix is a stopgap, it's the bridge between Blockbuster and true on-demand (whether supplied by your cable company or by internet downloading) but man, Netflix rocks...
 
yeah this is no surprise at all. would be nice if the industry gets its **** together next time around. blu-ray and hd-dvd will die, and its their own damn fault. im going to wait for the NEXT generation. consumers prefer a unified format over confusion. shocking!

Barry_Green said:
I hear ya, but... Netflix is "no good"? Netflix is probably the single most brilliant new-internet business. The business model is fantastic. It works. Netflix is destroying the whole video-store video-rental business.

I think NetFlix is a stopgap, it's the bridge between Blockbuster and true on-demand (whether supplied by your cable company or by internet downloading) but man, Netflix rocks...
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agreed!
 
There was a study done on Netflix based on how quickly people receive their rentals vs. the frequency they rent from Netflix. Apparently Netflix would intentionally delay the delivery of rentals to those who rented frequently. It would take them several days to get a rental while their neighbor, who was renting 3-4 a month was getting them practically next day. Business is business, I guess, but that is kinda shady. Kinda like Best Buy admitting to a program they had set up where they trained their employees to be rude to the bargain buyers, as those people made no money for Best Buy. Don't know if either of the aforementioned are still practicing these policies. It was a while ago that the reports came out.
Jason
 
Ramjet1979 said:
There was a study done on Netflix based on how quickly people receive their rentals vs. the frequency they rent from Netflix. Apparently Netflix would intentionally delay the delivery of rentals to those who rented frequently. It would take them several days to get a rental while their neighbor, who was renting 3-4 a month was getting them practically next day. Business is business, I guess, but that is kinda shady. Kinda like Best Buy admitting to a program they had set up where they trained their employees to be rude to the bargain buyers, as those people made no money for Best Buy. Don't know if either of the aforementioned are still practicing these policies. It was a while ago that the reports came out.
Jason
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yeah this has been covered on the forum somewhere before. if i recall theres a website out there too exposing all of the above.
 
Best Buy still does that BS with the bargain buyers, sometimes i dont make it to frys to get my games on sale, so i go there to price match and they are complete jack asses! I almost lost it once in there.

But i tried netflix and just didnt like it, guess i was on the delayed renter thing.
 
In more remote places, like Alaska (Where I spend my summers), NetFlix isn't worth is because of the shipping time. You just can't get enough rentals in to justify it.

Overnight downloading would be Perfect up there.

besides, with a plug & play set-top-box any comsumer would be able to use it. Heck, just give it a snazzy name: "Overnight Online Digital Shipping"


It will happen.


- Mikko
 
Isaac_Brody said:
I think HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are gonna flop big time... With high speed internet I would choose paying twenty bucks a month to have access to thousands of movies versus buying a new format and starting my collection from zero. I don't need to have a library of DVDs on a shelf, and it makes moving that much more of a pain. HD broadband film downloads...that's where it's at. :)

I think this format will fit right in with the Tivo crowd.
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Netlfix offers both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, 3 at a time for $17. Sounds like ur set :)


And about netflix delaying delivery to high traffic customers. It's not that movies take long to be delivered, its that there is a longer WAIT to get in demand movies. ie I rent a lot from netflix, and around the oscars this year i was looking for nominated movies I hadn't seen. I put Crash in my queue and bumped it to #1 where it said "Available". That night Crash won best picture and when I went to check my queue and the status now said "Long Wait". Normally if it says available, it means there's one there and you have dibs on it, so if everyone went and put Crash as there #1 it wouldn't matter because I got there first, but because I'm a high traffic customer, I was bumped for the flood of normal people the company wants to make sure continues to use the service.

I was totally pissed off, but it's the only time it's been an issue and I heard they were remedying it, whether thats true or not. But even if it isn't, the service is still worth $17 to me.

Now if because I rented a lot it meant I had to wait an extra day or two to recieve my movies, I'd run over to Blockbusters service, but that's not the case.
 
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Netflix is brilliant. I too have found myself on the recieving end of that frequent renter delay issue. Frustrated me at first but I soon realized Netflix was such a good deal it was not like I could take my business elsewhere...they are the best deal. So until someone comes up with something better I will live with my extra day for delivery or not being able to get a popular movie as soon.

I have been giving out Netflix memberships to friends and family for Xmas and birthdays for years now. Except one grandmother who doesn't have the internet, they have all kept it after my gift subscription ran out.

Cheers
 
I took a look at some Blu-Ray HD-DVD's compared to the DVD's in the features list.

Are they just using all that space for picture quality? I mean really the quality on DVD's now are perfectly fine.

I've seen the difference on the other DVD formats, and while nice. It's just unneccessary, especially when I need to buy a new TV for the damn things.

Whoever mentioned "Those ugly black bars". I actually really like the black bars, and I like it better when they put the subtitles in them so it doesn't interfere with the picture.

My Dad hate's those bars because he say's it reminds him of when he was a kid and the TV would start to break, that it looked something like that.

I also don't see why i'd pay 10 more dollars for a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray DVD that just gives me the option of viewing the movie with a better resolution then actually giving me some new special features (Which I like about DVD's)!

At least with newer version editions of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray DVD's may make DVD's cheaper.
 
Cynic821 said:
I dont think download services will ever succeed. Its just a teensy bit too complicated for some users.
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Funny, but look at the success of music videos on Itunes. And I just read this little blurb today.

http://www.imdb.com/news/sb/2006-09-05/film/4


Apple May Add Movies to iTunes Store Next Week
Techie blogs and other websites spread the word Monday that Apple CEO Steve Jobs is expected to announce on Sept. 12 that Apple's iTunes Music Store will begin selling a feature film download service, permitting users to pay $9.99 for a movie that can be viewed on a new wider-screen iPod or, via a new wireless video streaming device, on a television set. Several websites indicated that Apple is still testing its next-generation video iPods and "Airport Express" and that it may be several weeks or even months before they are ready to hit the market.
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I think Apple's got it right. DVD's are looking more and more like CD's, it just seems more and more archaic to me. I think the success of mp3's is a good barometer for how the "on demand" movie download service will fare. Also, a lot of people are already skipping buying DVD's and downloading pirated DVD's and shows. It doesn't seem that complicated for them. An on-demand movie download model would just legitimize the workflow. If Netflix, or even blockbuster can create a user friendly download box, something like TiVo, with an ondemand easy to use menu system, HD-DVD and Bluray will be totally redundant.

How do you convince a family to spend over 500 dollars on a cutting edge HD DVD player versus getting them to buy a Netflix/Blockbuster download box and pay a monthly fee of twenty bucks for thousands of films? Which sounds like a better deal?
 
So, format wars. Here goes nothing:

Consoles.
I sincerely hope Sony crashed and burns. When they do, you're all invited to the party at my house. They are trying to capitalise on having such a massive market penetration by being the jack of all trades, which is making it less about the games.experience and more about the incidental crap that's tacked onto it and is suffering feature creep at an obscene rate.

The premise of the jack of all trades is that you use the toolsets that have been developed by others to streamline your work into a compact and sleek package. A sumo wrestler only pushes the opponent out of the ring, he doesn't spend training time growing his own food, organising the event and setting up the stage andrigging the lights by himself.

Nintendo, being the only original console makers left, have learnt the lessons of history in the gaming market. They will succeed with the Wii because of that. They have only really screwed up with the Gameboy colour and maintaining their quality over quantity mantra over their releases in recent years. I see this as a good thing, many do not.

I forsee them opening the floodgates to developers to get as many games for their revolutionary new piece of hardware, after Sony upped the ante, and squeesed it further with Microsoft's arrival. Incidentally, the Wii will be the mother of all reset switches regarding how people pervcieve gaming.

HD-DVD vs. BD-ROM.
Consumers don't care. They are happy to pay for (and have ownership of) umpteen discs that comprise a series of their favourite TV show and have been since the mortal enemy of shelves, namely the Star Trek and Friends VHS releases, were available. Since there will be no perceptable quality difference, since the last I heard, both the standards encode video with H.264 or VC1 (Windows Media Video 9) the difference will come down to playback time. As stated, they don't care, and studios will be charging by total available content, not per disc.

Technically, HD-DVD is the same as a DVD, just with a blue laser for a tighter data spiral (greater capacity). The data layers are still in the middle of the disc (0.6mm of 1.2mm), so there's hardly anything to change on the fabrication side of the equation. Which means lower costs, because the data layer in BD-ROM is 0.1mm away from the surface of the 1.2mm disc and means you need to replace the DVD fabrication plants. The difference is there because the increased capacity requires a tighter focused beam, which lands closer to the surface of the disc.

The Bandwaggon
Sure, most studios are on the BD-ROM side, but HD-DVD has a running start, and has The Name in its title, which will sway fickle consumers. Because of this and since it's cheaper to manufacture (and hence cheaper to buy), HD-DVD will win the initial price cutting war and be more readily adopted, getting the studios to sit on the fence or chance positions entirely.

At this point, people will realise HD-DVD = VHS, BD-ROM = Beta, and if they dig deeper and find BD-ROM's roots in the XD cam, they'll run like Aliens are attacking. Which of course means that everybody will be doing the best to get the bloody hell away before Unspeakable Things happen, while the remaining 0.05% of the population (the crazy people) stay to watch, besotted with such Wonderous Technology and totally in awe, before beinf (financially) ripped to shreds by their evil, uncaring, unfeeling masters (Sony).

Other
I heard something about upscaling DVDs. The only unit that I know of that can do that is a drive made by Samsung, and isn't available in Australia yet (can't speak for the rest of you, I'm afraid). I was taking to the Samesung head of AV products guy on Sunday, and it's simply "pull the pixels from the 2 x 2 matrix into a 4 x 4 matrix, then average the colours that should be in-between" process.

You know what shits me? You can get 1080 cameras for less than 1080 televisions. I know that was random by comapison, but I'm ranting and it's past midnight. So goodnight. And don't say I didn't warn you all about the whole situation above.
 
I have been avoiding Netflix because I KNOW I would get sucked into watching more movies than I should. That being said, Netflix is a most excellent company. :)

I love love LOVE video games but I don't have much time to play them anymore. The XBox 360 and PS3 are very cool. Even the Nintendo Wii is fun. But the pricetags of the systems, especially the PS3, are just out of control. I think that's a big part of the reason why the Neo-Geo and TurboGrafx-16 CD-ROM attachment never took off. These companies should bring the prices down to no more than $300 - take a hit financially on the hardware and make up for it with all the extra gamers buying software. But what do I know?

I'm watching the "HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray" battle from a distance.
I'm excited about the new technology, but not as a typical consumer. I can appreciate the better picture quality, etc. But the real draw for me is professionally. When 16GB+ P2 Cards are here and affordable, I'm going to need a good archiving format. I'm hoping that Blu-ray comes out on top simply because it is technologically better. In 1-2 years or so, the boxes will be cheaper, like everything.
 
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