Matching the Texas Chain Saw Massacre

GageFX

GageFX

Carbonite Member
So, while searching for pics for another thread, I came across these caps from TCSM - the remake a few years ago. Lost in the mediocrity of it all, I guess I didnt notice it is somewhat beautiful. What would you say are some good Scene File settings to match this, and the age old question, should it really be matched in cam or should it be shot with lattitude and CCd in post?

Thanks,

-GageFX

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66261446.jpg

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66261448.jpg

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Hah, I love how all your shots have Jessica Biel in em. :-)

Well the stills look like they desaturated it quite a bit. Along with that, it seems to have a slight greenish tint to it. Slightly more towards the bluish cold side.

I tried the best I could with the in camera settings although honestly it's still a far cry from THAT look.

Detail Level: -3
V Detail Level: 0
Detail Coring: 0
Chroma Level: -7
Chroma Phase: -7
Color Temp: +3
Master Ped: -6
A. Iris: 0
Gamma: Cine-Like
Knee: Auto
Matrix: Norm
Skin Tone DTL: Off

If you want, you probably can turn down the details (regular and v detail), turn up the coring, and turn on the skin dtl if you want. Generally I never do that for any scene file but that's just because I like to preserve detail as much as possible and never like to throw any away.

Again though I wouldn't expect miracles from the DVX. A lot of the "look" associated with film is really done in post. Regular untreated film looks rather flat actually.

Now whether you should shoot flat with the DVX or shoot it as close as possible with scene file settings, that's really up to you. Generally speaking, you lose quality with DV when you alter colors too much in post but then again you have way more control to fine tune your work in post too. I guess maybe you coudl actually do both. Shot with altered in camera settings to get it as close as possible so when you do alter it in post, it'll be less a drastic change.

P.S. To get a look like in TCM, I would think you need more comprehensive color correction software than the defaults supplied in your editor. Those only can take you so far (not that I have any experience with those, just a guy who's all too aware the limits of FCP's 3 way color corrector).
 
Wow. Thanks for the detailed response. I'll give it a shot. I'm a major fan of leaving latitude for post. In my day job, when I'm not dictated by an AD, I often go into the shoot with a vision and by the time I've gone through the shots and start editing, I get another vibe I decide to go with. On one particular shoot I wanted a very washed out, painterly look - almost looking like an actual very old painting, without the digital brushstrokes:

32752390.jpg


But then by the end I really loved a dark oversaturated look:

32752346.jpg



But maybe that's just a cop out as I tend to shoot dark and oversaturated as a rule, so I defaultd to my usual.


As with my current project. I went in with the idea to shoot dark and saturated - like my photography - a cross somewhere between Moulin Rouge and Fight Club, and now I'm falling in love with TCM. I know by the time I'm done editing I'll be back at the dark and saturated look, though.

So with my bipolor creativity, would you say best to shoot flat, or best to make up my F*ing mind?

Thanks again.

And as for

Hah, I love how all your shots have Jessica Biel in em. :-)
Click to expand...

Yeah. :) I was looking for Biel screencaps for a thread in the Film Forum.

-GageFX
 
EA_Cru_2002 said:
Hah, I love how all your shots have Jessica Biel in em. :-)

Well the stills look like they desaturated it quite a bit. Along with that, it seems to have a slight greenish tint to it. Slightly more towards the bluish cold side.

I tried the best I could with the in camera settings although honestly it's still a far cry from THAT look.

Detail Level: -3
V Detail Level: 0
Detail Coring: 0
Chroma Level: -7
Chroma Phase: -7
Color Temp: +3
Master Ped: -6
A. Iris: 0
Gamma: Cine-Like
Knee: Auto
Matrix: Norm
Skin Tone DTL: Off

If you want, you probably can turn down the details (regular and v detail), turn up the coring, and turn on the skin dtl if you want. Generally I never do that for any scene file but that's just because I like to preserve detail as much as possible and never like to throw any away.

Again though I wouldn't expect miracles from the DVX. A lot of the "look" associated with film is really done in post. Regular untreated film looks rather flat actually.

Now whether you should shoot flat with the DVX or shoot it as close as possible with scene file settings, that's really up to you. Generally speaking, you lose quality with DV when you alter colors too much in post but then again you have way more control to fine tune your work in post too. I guess maybe you coudl actually do both. Shot with altered in camera settings to get it as close as possible so when you do alter it in post, it'll be less a drastic change.

P.S. To get a look like in TCM, I would think you need more comprehensive color correction software than the defaults supplied in your editor. Those only can take you so far (not that I have any experience with those, just a guy who's all too aware the limits of FCP's 3 way color corrector).
Click to expand...

You dont need anything more comprehensive than a normal editor.

If you are using avid, final cut, vagas, or premier pro, you can get this type of color grading.

Few tips.


Shoot flat
- Cinelike D
- Thin Detail
- Cinegamma
- Bring your saturation to around 40
- Lighting is crucial
- pick up one of those 35mm adapters (mines in the "shop")
- Fool around with your CC in your editor to see what you can figure out.

Here are some grabs i took just for you ;)

before, after, and a comparison.
please keep in mind that i did this in 10 minutes, you can spend much more time with a simple CC and come up with something much closer than what i had.

These were also taken on an overcast day. The grab from TCM has a nice strong Backlight on the actors and some of the scenery which really give it a kicker.

Before

tcm03zl9.jpg


After

tcm02fu0.jpg


Grab

tcm01iv5.jpg
 
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Great, thanks.

Fool around with your CC in your editor to see what you can figure out.
Click to expand...

Yeah I really need to learn the CC tools. I use Vegas. Between day job and film project, I work 20 hours/day so I haven't had much time to learn the editor yet. (Vegas) (I also browse this site on my cell phone during the day, which is how I have time fo the tom-foolery here.)

Thanks for taking the time to help. I'll do some tests also.

-GageFX
 
Very nice PaPa. (feels weird saying that) Guess you can do more with em than I originally thought.

I have a quick question for you though. Why Cine-Like D? As I am aware, D basically just stretches the dynamic range electronically but it adds noise so couldn't you just shoot regular Cine-Like and enlongate the dynamic range there?

Or do you like D more for the fact it has knee protection and regular cine-like doesnt'?

P.S. I've always wondered, people say Cine-Like D and V have knee protection, but when you select em, the knee option becomes blued out and you can't change it, so my question is, what is the knee protection setting on those gammas?
 
Papa, I still haven't learned the CC controls in my NLE yet (Vegas). I know all NLEs are different, but can you give me an idea of what you did?

Thx.

-GageFX
 
Well,, since I'm in Photoshop everyday, I'm much more comfortable there. Wanting to keep it simple, I did a quick level adjustment, a -60 desat, and a 20% dk green overlay. I like the result, but a) have no idea how to do this in Vegas, and b) do not want to CC a feature frame by frame. What do you think of my CC?



Before

tcm03zl9.jpg


After

tcm02fu0.jpg


****Mine****
66306840.jpg


****

Grab

tcm01iv5.jpg


Sorry about the image clutter. Others included for quick reference.

-GageFX
 
You're CC looks great. im sure given more time both of us can come up with something even closer. yours a slightly too contrasty and i would turn the gamma down a tad. Looks great though.



sure man.

Basically, i always start with the HLS, basically levels, gamma and saturation.

- Saturation to 40 %

- turned the gamma down slightly

- uped the contrast about 5 or 10

- lowerd the brightness

- Lowered hte pedestal to about -12

Then i moved to the color section where you adjust the gamma pedestal and gain or Red Green and Blue

I lowered the blue gamma a bit as well as the gain, i upped the green gain slightly and lowered some of the red gain, that was the result.
 
What NLE are you in? I only ask because I dont know if these are the exact controls I should look for in Vegas.

As for adjusting "Brightness" and "Contrast", at least in still photography and Photoshop, that is a cardinal No-No. It's always Curves and Levels, never the Brightness and Contrast controls.

eerrrrk. "pedestal", "gain", "gamma".

While I like to learn new things, I dont like to have to learn new things.

Thanks. I'll take a look in Vegas when I get the chance. (Different computer, different location.)

-GageFX
 
PaPa,
What CC program did you use for those grabs? I love the look of TCM also.

You know, we have to keep it in the back of our minds that that was shot in 35mm, with a huge crew, and millions of clams!
 
Dont sell yourself short, Lake. I think Papa is just about there. I think a hybrid of his and mine is right on and that's just him in his backyard no lighting and zero dollars - I assume.

You didnt spend a million dollars just to demo that for me, did you Pa?

-GageFX
 
True. I know the DVX is amazing, but CC can be a crazy experience, trying to get a 'look'! I was looking for a book etc...on CC but could not find any out there.
 
but CC can be a crazy experience
Click to expand...

Yeah. I'm sure. I'm certainly not looking forward to it. I'm used to editing/correcting/airbrushing a few stills from a photoshoot - I dont even want to think about trying to get an entire film to match.

Honestly, though, if Papa had just given me that first orig grab of his and said "Try to match TCM." I wouldn't even know where to begin. He works his magic and literally in a 2 minute adjustment I made mine - not copying his, but just following his basic guidlines. Levels, saturation, and then I added the green overlay, which I somewhat like and I think is close.

This is just a whole new world to me, that frankly, I'm a bit afraid of. But fear just makes me want to jump out of that plane even more.

-GageFX
 
I hope so. Just dont have the time now. Between the fulltime day job that is supporting my fulltime feature, I dont have much time for experimentation.

(I only have time for this forum since my cel phone is fully web enabled.)

-GageFX
 
GageFX said:
Well,, since I'm in Photoshop everyday, I'm much more comfortable there. Wanting to keep it simple, I did a quick level adjustment, a -60 desat, and a 20% dk green overlay. I like the result, but a) have no idea how to do this in Vegas, and b)
Click to expand...

Don't know how new you are to Vegas, but...

In photoshop, save that dark green overlay as a 720x480/873x480 file. In Vegas, add a new track to your timeline and drag/drop the overlay in above your video. There is a nice little button to the left of the track that looks like a piece of film with an "a" on top. Press that and you get a selection of photoshop type composite modes: Add, subtract, screen, overlay...ect.

Use the slider to the left to make opacity adjustments. There are also 2 buttons to the right of your clips in the timeline. The top one is to crop and mask and the bottom green one is to add plugins: color correction, effects, ect.

Here's a tip: to get something like the "Lighting effects" in photoshop, add the "bump map" effect in Vegas and turn the bump height to 0. Then play around with the light settings and voila`.
 
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