maybe edius instead of fcs???

Jason Ramsey

Jason Ramsey

Admin
Ok, crap. I pretty much had made the decision that I was going to have to learn how to use a new nle (thanks vegas). But since I am not an "advanced" editor as of yet, that is ok. Anyways, just when I had pretty much decided to go with a mac and fcs 5.1.1, and weighing the possible benefits of that I find myself wondering if maybe i should be looking at edius broadcast 4.

I have some questions and concerns if that is ok. I know i will get the "dude, get a mac" and the "mac users use their palms to click a mouse" stuff, and all, but I am hoping to get some info to help sway me one way or another, besides the usual biases :)

Ok, a couple of things with the mac setup. Well, possibly, most importantly is the fact that it has market penetration, which could allow for editing jobs in the future with companies if I needed to do that, cause my business goes bankrupt :) Of course with the recent acquisition of edius, they could very well be working their way into the market as well in the near future.

It is a "studio" version now of final cut, so are those goodies, going to give me a lot more stuff that I am not going to get in edius, and then have to purchase another grand or two worth of software to make up for? Unless, things have changed terribly, I can get a comparable pc system for less. I am looking at a fairly tricked out mac pro, quad xeon 2.66, 2gig ram, x1900 xt 512mb, 1.75 tb worth of hdd etc, and a 500 buck refurb 20" cinema display and fcs which comes to $6150 'ish.

I think I can do at least that well the pc route. I haven't looked at the pcs yet for the system that i would get for editing. But if it ended up being a grand or more less, would there be xtra software I am going to need to get in addition to make up for what edius is lacking that the bundle of fcs has? Use-a-bility is a big question. from what little I have seen of fc, I am actually a bit excited, as it looks like I would quickly be able to get up to par with the basic level of editing skill I have right now and move past that, with not too much "down-time" overcoming any learning curve. Now if the pc system ended up costing about the same, I could just get a mac pro, run windows and edius on it, and be able to go fcs in the future if I needed or wanted, without a whole new rig. The other question on edius, can i effectively use it as a software based nle, with a quad xeon, etc. or am i going to have to drop a grand or more on some hardware based solution (i have never used hardware options for editing. strictly software)?

main attraction about edius as per a quote from Barry on a different thread somewhere on here (as he can say it best):
"whether you're on the PC or the Mac, nothing comes close to the P2 integration that EDIUS Broadcast offers. If you want a system that acts like it was designed from the ground up to work with HVX/P2 footage, EDIUS Broadcast is by far the most integrated."
That to me is beautiful. No converting to mov or anything else right? it's just beautiful. full native support as far as i can tell. I can't find much on edius broadcast 4 on the net. most of it is in a foreign language (to me), but rightfully so, since they support all of the Pal formats. This is going to be important to me in about a year. as the system i get now is the nle i get now will be the one i will use when i go to indonesia in about a year (i don't want to learn another nle again in a year). Of course, fcs might very well have support for all of the pal formats of the hvx by then. but I don't know that for sure until I see it in the software.

Ok, my stuff is getting kinda disorganized now, so I will try to summarize before I get to tired.
use-ability? edius need addons to be comparable with xtra features? if anyone has nothing better to do:) have you got a configuration for a 6100 dollarish edius broadcast 4 system similar to what I have listed above with at least one display? will the software alone handle all of the panny formats well with 2 camera editing or will i have to get some hardware add on? I think that's it. I'll shut up now
Oh and one other thing. being able to have a slot to stick my p2 card ( or in my case the cineporter) straight into a pcmcia slot on the pc. By the way, i think I saw an 80-90 dollar pcmcia p2 reader for the pc that plugs into pci slot but then has a front loading 5 1/4 bay for sticking the p2 card in the front of the pc instead of the back. i will see if i can find it again.
Anyways, now i will shut up and thanks for the replies. Maybe they will help me to better organize my q's as well.
Jason

EDIT: damn that was long. Sorry :)
 
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Jason- My little voice is telling me I should re-read your entire post thoroughly before posting an answer but, what the heck . . . here goes:

If you are used to Vegas already you should probably download the trial version of CineForm Aspect HD. That might solve your problem.

If you go with Edius Broadcast (software only) you should be happy as well. I am not sure if there is still a trial version available that works with HVX footage, you will have to check their website. Broadcast will pretty much handle anything you can throw at it and it doesn't require add-ons. PCMCIA slots should be unnecessary if you are on a PC . . . you just connect the camera (or P2Store) via USB cable and Broadcast will read in the files for you. CineForm Aspect HD does pretty much the same thing with it's HDLINK utility.

Get some rest.
 
I use both...If you have a capable PC then get Edius. FCP has better CC tools. Edius 4 is coming and I think they are working on better CC. I have a Mac 17" PB and it is so easy to input cards and just go. On the PC you will have to figure the best way to get from P2 card to PC. If you at all need other editors to help you down the road then get FCP......Plus FCP studio comes with DVD SP....I have used many PC DVD auth apps and DVD SP is by far the better choice if you need to produce DVD.
 
Final Cut Studio is as good a package for the money as your going to get. Motion is great for real time effects and has some nice roto scoping tools and can do a lot. The same applies to Live Type, Soundtrack Pro and DVD Studio Pro. They are all brilliant apps and if your a student they are really cheap. They handle just about any format and are very stable and are very powerful.

Plus now that Shake is sooooo cheap and you can export streight form FCP to Shake it's a brilliant package. You won't be disappointed with this package.

And if you interested in using it with the HVX, Jan said that about 90% of hvx owners are using Final Cut so it can't be too shabby can it!
 
I'm a Premiere user (mainly because of the friendly integration with After Effects, which I use a lot), and the fact that Adobe hasn't supported P2 MXF hasn't affected me too much. I have both Raylight and AspectHD, and I am doing just fine with them. Actually, I love AspectHD. These solutions might not be as fluid as FCP and Edius' current solutions, BUT, they are good enough, to where I wouldn't leave these software packages that I am comfortable with to go to another one. Also, you figure the support will be there natively pretty soon for Vegas/Premiere ( I would hope). So if you haven't tried out AspectHD, then I would highly suggest it before you make a huge switch to another software package.
 
I use Vegas with Raylight (works in a similar manner to Aspect HD, but without the product activation). I have no regrets. Sure, I have to convert my clips before using them, but that is a minor, very quick step that doesn't hurt my workflow.

Raylight also gives you the invaluable ability to use your HVX footage in other programs that support AVIs. This comes in handy more often than you'd think: no NLE can do absolutely everything, so its very nice to have other options.
 
If at all possible, wait a few weeks. I have heard tell of a new option that may make Vegas completely viable, but I haven't had a chance to test it yet.

Definitely do as the other users say, download Raylight and CineForm and see what you think of the workflow with Vegas. It's not at all like using EDIUS' integration, but heck, you don't have to buy a $1000 editing program nor do you have to go through a new learning curve. And if the new program does what I think it'll do... well, let me say that I'm really, really hoping it does what I think it does, because that will make Vegas a totally workable option again and I really really would like that!

AFAIK announcement should take place at IBC so within the next two weeks.
 
hey all,
Thanks for the replies. As far has having to spend a thousand on a new nle, that is ok. I am building a studio from the ground up. camera's, sound, everything. A new system is something I am going to have to get anyways, so I had budgeted for new software, etc. I am getting a comp that is dedicated only to editing. My 600 dollar "built it myself" comp isn't going to cut it (though I must admit it is the most stable PC I have ever owned). Anyways, so as far as budgeting, that is not a concern.
I am a little excited to hear about what might be upcoming for Vegas. If it's too much short of dropping mxf right on the timeline, I don't know how interested I am. It would have to be REALLY exciting, if it a third party plugin. I don't think I am very big on the idea of supporting sony's marketing policies with all this proprietary crap, right now.I am a bit spoiled I guess, because, what little editing I have done, has been on Vegas, so as far as I knew all editing software allowed me to stick Flash, and pics, and video and all that crap right to the timeline and just keep going :) Barry is this Vegas announcement something from Vegas or a third party? Or is this one of those things your "in-self" isn't at liberty to talk with us about yet? :)
But as far as waiting, that is ok. It is going to be a month before I start purchasing equipment probably. I have a meeting with the financial advisor, next week, so it will be a while. So waiting a month or two is not an issue, I am not trying to rush into a 30 k investment.
I just love the idea of edius and native support. I also love multi cam support of both it and fcp. Something Vegas does not have. Dont remember the vegas site said 7 would have that or not.
I know that if I go pc route, I can get a faster system than the mac pro that I had configured and actually 2 widescreen displays for the same price, so that isn't an issue.
how many out there are/have used fcs 5.1.1 and edius broadcast 4? I am interested to know how edius 4 stacks up with fcp. From what I understand it was supposed to add some interesting new stuff. I love the native support of edius, and it looks like the bundle with studio may allow for greater variety for the money. But that depends on what edius 4 has to offer. In other words, fcs has me excited about the fact that it is something I can use for most of my purposes in the early goings on, but I don't like the idea of converting crap so I can work with it. Edius has the "workflow" of vegas that I sooo love. Just dropp it on the timeline and go! wooo! I love that. But their software is kind of an unknown to me. Barry have you tinkered with broadcast 4 yet? I have been waiting for your words on that. Or are you still with 3.6 or whatever? If so, how are you comparing it to fcs?
If there is indeed some great announcement to the benefit of vegas then i may look at that, but i'm not much of an advanced editor yet, so the learning curve issue isn't a huge one. If vegas one day got the s... togethor, then I could always go back to them, and would love to use them for knocking out some of the "event" gigs I will likely be doing. Provided I am on a PC if ever that time comes.
Ok. Thanks a bunch for the replies. I am really interested to hear some comparison's between broadcast 4 and fcp if anyone has them, as 4 is supposed to be quite a step up from 3 from what I understand.
Multicam, native, vegas = soil my pants. But I will save that for the bitching about vegas forum :)
Thanks a lot to all of you,
Jason
 
maybe thompson grass valley should buy vegas so somebody can get them back on track. then we could have edigas broadcast hd :) yeah, right.
Jason
 
I use Edius, for P2 integration with the PC it is the shiznit, It does everything I need it to do editing wise. Workflow wise I do not know of an option that is better. Kind of a weird interface to get used to but editing is editing and I don't remember the learning curve being all that bad.

With the current editing options out there and if having to make the choice all over agian, I would choose Eduis soley for the P2 integration, It just makes it easier and more than makes up for its editing shortcomings in comparison to FCP. In other words somethings may not be as strait foward as FCP But I really have not found anything I couldn't do that i needed to do.

Of course this is all just my opinion.

Peace
 
I use Edius 4 Broadcast, and using P2 media and MXF files is a no-brainer. Last week I edited with a timeline that contained six mixed streams (half 720P DVCProHD, half SD DV25 from another camera), realtime and render-free, and multi-cam editing has never been easier -- it's actually FUN.

That being said, FCP is also due for an upgrade and enhancements specific to P2 and MXF handling, so while it isn't where it should be today, it's supposed to get better.

The fact that there isn't a single clear choice but a number of viable options is encouraging.
 
aghh. i'm just so torn. what about sound issues with edius. 2 cams. 4 mics. overdub. narration, etc. is working with sound ok.

what other programs would be recommended to use in conjunction with edius?

if apple were releasing updates in a month or two, i could wait and see, but not 6 months.
vegas, will wait and see about what barry is talking about, but i think i am going to abandon them.
edius = workflow with p2 like it should be, faster system, 2 widescreen displays for the same money.
fcs = possibly better use-ability and more widespread use.
aghh.
I have to admit that what i have seen in some tut's. on final cut it looks kinda up my alley. but then i have nothing to compare it too with edius.
jason

and working with 4:3 and 16:9 on the same timeline with it boxing it how it needs is very attractive for a project i will be working on. Does fcs do the same? problem is that same project is going to have a fair amount of greenscreen and some fx work, with probably a lot of color correction. how do you edius 4 users like the color correction?
 
Barry_Green said:
If at all possible, wait a few weeks. I have heard tell of a new option that may make Vegas completely viable, but I haven't had a chance to test it yet.
Click to expand...

Man, this would be timely, as I'm just about to jump into HVX waters.
 
Ok. quickly :) after finding a nice little site: www.ediustips.com I watched a few tut's and am liking what i am seeing. It looks like edius is doing the things that I knew how to do in vegas, and quite similarly as well. Color correction looks to be pretty decent too from what I have seen. you insert transitions just a bit differently (instead of overlapping the clips how much you want and inserting the trans) by spreading out the length of the trans inbetween the clips, but that seems fine enough. I am installing the trial of pro right now, just to see it some. Gonna screw around with some old mini dv footage and see what i think. I can always buy 3rd party programs as I need them and as they become more readily available, as apparently their are some compatibility issues with the new version of edius.
I'll let ya know if you care at all :)
Jason
 
Hey Barry,

Just received your HVX book from Panasonic, a gift with the purchase of my new HVX - Very helpful, thank you.
I'm curious why not much is mentioned about Avid Liq Pro 7 - this is a P2 friendly NLE solution. Eduis seemed like the way to go - I edit on a PC- and Adobe seems to be dragging their feet with Premiere and handling MXF files.
What are your thoughts? Edius or Avid?
RM
 
Liquid supports DVCPRO50 from the HVX, but I don't think it does HD. Hence not much talk about it.

EDIUS has the best integration with the P2 system of all the editors. But EDIUS isn't Avid; if you need Avid for some reason (compatibility with your job's editing systems, etc) then Avid can work fine; Avid supports editing from the cards and importing native MXF's.

But Avid's integration seems like an added-on patch, whereas EDIUS' integration seems almost like it was built specifically for P2. I know that's not the case, I know EDIUS existed before they added P2 integration, but they really integrated it well.

If you're a freelance editor-for-hire, you may need to go FCP or Avid for hireability purposes. If you're a standalone shop such that it doesn't matter what editing platform you use, and you're working with an HVX, I recommend taking a thorough look at EDIUS.
 
I'm of the school that the computer is a tool and use the tool you feel more comfortable with. Having said that, I really like that Edius can import MXF files directly, unlike FCP and it is definitely something I will look at when I get an intel Mac. The whole idea of a dual booting OSX/XP type piece of hardware makes me think I may be able to get the best of both worlds. (I have a Sony VAIO along with a couple of G4 PBs and G5 Powermac, but having one machine that could do anything would be sweet).

I guess part of the question is the comparative value of the FCP Studio package compared to the PC side array of software. But I think it's been shown that most modern NLEs will do the job in one capacity or another so I would go what you are comfortable with.

Hardware wise, I think, unlike in the past, the intel Mac is now very competitive with anything put out from Dell or HP and certainly Sony.
(I know one person who is buying an intel Mac and running it as a pure windows machine because he said it was the best bang for his buck. Go figure.)

Anyway good luck with whatever choice you make.
 
Yeah, I am all about drop it on the timeline, no render kinda nle's. I think if I did go with fcp or something that part might be pretty annoying to me. I was originally looking at a mac pro, but since I am looking at Edius and started looking at PC's again, I am finding that I can get a Dell Workstation, that is faster and cheaper. 3.2ghz vs 2.66. Plus, with a little help from Dregenthal, I am getting the best bang for my buck. For example, instead of getting more expensive 2nd and 3rd Drives from Dell, I am getting a pair of cheaper 150gig 10,000rpm drives, for improved real-time capabilities. To make a long story short, I am looking at a faster system w/ 2 20" widescreen displays, faster drives, etc., and Edius Broadcast 4 for around 4500 bucks (depending on my final choices and price at time of purchase). A 2.66 ghz mac pro that I configured a while back with one 20" cinema display and fcs 5.1 was running around 6k. So I am happy with that, and Real-time native support to boot. That alone is almost worth it to me.
Jason
*and don't forget (at least in my opinion) that if Edius continues on its path, you may be looking at a greater market penetration over the next year to two years and beyond. They seem to be expanding quite a bit in the broadcast arena. I was reading a post over on the Canopus forum last week that listed the tv stations that they have installed and trained on Edius recently. It's not huge numbers, but I think they were talking about 50 or so, with more on the way. That is encouraging. I can see why broadcast stations would like it too. Dropping multiple cam streams in and getting a rough edit seems to be quite easy and quick from my early trials with pro 4 trial. If I can do it, that should say something :)
 
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