Feature Film With $15,000

SPZ said:
and get at least 2 tb of storage (if you are going for dvcpro hd P2 editing.)
I think this would be enough for getting a reasonable short film out.

Wow! 2 TB of storage would be enough to hold about 90 hours of DVCPro HD 720/24p footage. If you are shooting that much footage for a 90 minute movie you have real problems!:crybaby:
 
ozduc said:
Wow! 2 TB of storage would be enough to hold about 90 hours of DVCPro HD 720/24p footage. If you are shooting that much footage for a 90 minute movie you have real problems!:crybaby:

I'm shooting 1080p25 for maximum quality. And I'm considering backup. You wouldn't want your master footage to disappear with a drive problem...
 
Is it lost on everyone else here that the original poster's question has more to do with "How to make a movie for $15,000", rather than "How to spend all of my $15,000, and not have enough $$$ to make my movie"?

A) If that is your TOTAL budget, rent don't buy or even better....
B) Plan your shoot and edit around restocking fees, example: can you edit in 13 days, and thusly only pay $250 for 13 days of use of a Mac Pro, and return it box and all on the 14th day?
C) Pay PEOPLE for their time
 
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Have you formally tested 1080 vs 720 to see what the actual gains are? Do you understand the extra processing, storage and smaller recording time of 1080? It is not just a decision of more clarity - in fact that is only a small part of the decision.
 
Duct Tape Films said:
Is it lost on everyone else here that the original poster's question has more to do with "How to make a movie for $15,000", rather than "How to spend all of my $15,000, and not have enough $$$ to make my movie"?

If you've read all of the thread, I think the real question is: is this lost on the original poster?
 
I would say if you want to pay your crew decently a budget of 15.000 wo´nt fit:
Say, to make it simple: you pay EACH member of the crew 100$ a day, you own the equipment (let´s say a HVX and standard lightning and decent audio) and you are author, director and editor in a single person:

Rehearsal:
10 days of rehearsal for 4 actors, the last 5 days also with 4 statists. The DP and the production assistant are also present the whole time:

that makes 8000$, add 1000$ for food and you´ll reach 9.000$ for the rehearsal.

Shooting:
20 days of shooting with 4 actors, 4 statists (there might be more statists sometimes, sometimes there might be less - 4 is an average estimate), DP, gaffer, sound, production assistant, make-up artist, driver, that means, with 14 people and yourself the shooting will cost you 28.000$ of wages + 2000$ car rent and gasoline + 1000$ cell phone calls + 3000$ food (10$ a day a person) +2000 insurances (the last point might vary regionally, It´s just an estimate) +1000 make-up and extras

that makes 37.000 for the shooting

Now, yourself (you need to buy the time you spend on the movie, no way to exclude yourself):
Six weeks of scriptwriting, two weeks of rehearsal, one month of shooting, six weeks of editing, two weeks of basic promotion: 5 month of your life. 2000$ each month, that makes: 10.000$

Promotion costs: DVD copies, postage, long distance calls: Let´s say 2000$ (this is the least, the minimum to promote your work, I could write here also 20.000$)

And last not least: the premiere party! 1000$ more.:)

so altogether:

rehearsal: 9.000$
shooting: 37.000$
yourself: 10.000$
promotion: 2000$
party: 1000$:)

movie: 59.000$
 
Paying the actors? not likely or necessary unless you are a SAG signatory and they are union. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting an actor who will work on your film for free + food + copy for their reel + deferral + possible gas expense. I am talking about good actors, trained (Meisner, Adler, Strausburg) actors. This is not a knock on actors, they love to work and get experience as long as you can work around their schedule. This is in the context of the $15,000 film in the U.S., if you can pay them than great.

Rent HVX = $250/day x 10 days = $2500 (he is shooting non-consecutive days so no discount)
Buy HVX = $5400 - $4500 (lay up sell after the shoot) = $900

same for cards, wireless lavs ...

I agree with the necessity of saving 1k for the party.
 
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What you are writing is true if you are making a short. But a feature length project? I don´t know if that works out that easy. Mostly people are not willing to spend on a set more than a week for free. Few people can afford to stop working for a month or even six weeks. They have to pay their rent, their food, everything. That is why I calculated the directors expenses, too: His time is worth 10.000$ or he would starve or end up sleeping in the street.
My calculation is a real world calculation, based on the fundamental needs of people. If you don´t pay them the money, their dad might do it - but they will have to spend more or less the amount of money that I calculated.
If you calculate the movie this way, you make a professional choice, you create a product and you do´nt owe anything to anybody. (Of course you should let the actors and everybody who participates in a possible profit)
 
I see where you are coming from, but most actors have a flexible work schedule (such as bartender, waiter etc.) or will work on weekends. Here where we speak of a 15k film, a three consecutive week shoot may not be a possibility. (Brothers Mcmullen - prob brutalized the spelling of it, being an example of a film shot on weekends (not costing 15k)) To say you need $60,000 or you can't make your film, in my view, flies in the face of what the digital revolution has been about and would deter many folks from trying. I know it makes sense to pay crew, especially DP and sound, but there are creative ways to make a film happen for this amount of money. It won't be "Hollywood" quality, so we can leave the Pirate movies to them.
 
If you are attempting to further your career, do not shoot a feature for 15k.

Shoot a great 8 minute short, and rent everything.
 
Its a puzzling one, I mean personally I think its very handy to own some of the equipment that is most vital such as for example the camera. But then I'm doing a lot of modest corporate jobs to help raise money for my films, so i use the equipment in a duel capacity (which i would recommend for a zero budget filmmaker!)

I think saying to 'hire' everything is more the talk of a producer than a director hehe, I think a would be director (semi wannabe DP or general filmmaker lol) finds a lot of security by owning their 'tools of the trade'.

All too often however, it leads to guys having some great equipment and nothing to make a good film.

Because everyone here is at different levels of the career ladder, their estimates for what a feature should or would cost vary wildly.

In the end of the day you can shoot a tin can on a park bench for 90 mins with the gear you get (just pretendl its an Andy Warhol film) and you still have a feature... So the budget for the film is completley relative to the ambition of your project.

As a filmmaker trained first as an actor (for 2 years qualification) and so have loads of contacts within the acting fraternity and other student bodies (who willingly volanteer and are good) So not everything costs something financial if you spend time instead on networking and grovelling.

Anyway im babbling on! lol good luck hope some of what i said helped!
 
smelni said:
Have you formally tested 1080 vs 720 to see what the actual gains are? Do you understand the extra processing, storage and smaller recording time of 1080? It is not just a decision of more clarity - in fact that is only a small part of the decision.

Yes I did. But shooting a feature film is not shooting a documentary or an event. No shot lasts longer than 2 minutes or 3. To compose your next shot needs time. With two 4gb cards or 2 8gb (they are selling for 1100 usd now) you get 8 minutes and 17 minutes recording time respectively. Not much of a hassle in therms of movie shooting. And I always go for best quality in my projects.

If the original poster goes for the Macbook pro, he'll have no problem editing 1080p on his computer. That's not a problem. Its not like HDV vs dvcprohd in therms of processing trouble.

Zig Zigman, I agree with you. The original poster should shoot a great 8 minutes short. However, if he has the budget, why not buy his own gear? His first movie will probably suck, and having his gear he can immediately plan the sequel and follow ups without the concerns of high rental budget problems...
 
I shot my first feature film on $700. It was crap. If I had known what I know now it would've been so much better. But it got distributed and it bought me some credibility. I'm shooting a feature (martial arts action) now for $3000. We've got stunts real fighters (martial artist) and real actors. Everything has been upgraded. (You can click on my signature and see us on IMDB. If I had $15,000 I'd be losing my mind (in a good way). I will talk you through this if you're serious (and I think you are). First it helps to let me know what type of film you're doing, but I'll go with what I know.

Hambartsum said:
As far as talent and catering are concered....my friends are the talent, which takes care of me spending any money on that, sometimes i'll buy them food, but nothing fancy so I've excluded that from the budget.

Nope. Dude you got 15G. Always feed cast and crew. Pizza, Chinese food or Subway are favorites. Homemade treats are loved and I've never been on a set where these foods were turned down. Now in my experience, if you're shooting with a bunch of ladies for the most part they don't eat much (especially treats), guys will chow on everything put before them especially if you're doing action and you have a bunch of athletic types.

Hambartsum said:
I go to CalARTS, my school as 16mm cameras, and best DV camera it has is the DVX100, I like 24p, but I also only the Sony HC-1, so I like HD (and thats not even true HD), so to me the HVX is the best synthesis of those two at under $10gs.

You ever shoot with an HD/HDV camera before. Are you proficient with it? Probably not. DVX100/a or XL1s/2 is your camera. 70% of people don't have HD sets. You'll be doing SD delivery. Save it for next time. I won't be doing HD until my next feature.

Hambartsum said:
Now the film I plan no shooting is going to be shot in a rather guirella fashion, which means I wont be using lighting, and if I do need lighitng I can get that from my school.

You can put a lighting package together for under $150 and buy a real one for around $300. PM me and I'll tell you about it.

Hambartsum said:
Secondly, although I have a script, I can't make a definite schedule for two reasons, I can't rely on my friends because they are doing this for free so there will be times when they are busy and I can't always make them come, so the whole production will take some time...

Don't rely on friends. Get quality talent. I pay $25 a day for for 6 hours and $50 for 8 or more. This is for all the main talent plus everyone eats. I relied on only one good friend to act and that was one of my producers ("The Beatsmith").

Hambartsum said:
...on top of which during the end of september up until late october, I will need to shoot some time-sensitive footage, which I can only get during that month, basically the point is I cant rent the camera, because I'll end up using up more money than just buying it.

Never rent if you can buy. Nothing like having your own.

Hambartsum said:
Also because of the nature of the production, there will be no need for insurance or money for locations. There is no need to argue about the ethics of this as I am well aware of all the pros and cons, but that is how I work, for now...

Please I shoot guerilla all the time and many of us do. You're in good company.

Hambartsum said:
Where can I get the HVX for $5500? Can I shoot 720 24p with the Cineporter? Is the Cineporter even available, if not when will it be?

Forget the HVX for now. Stay with DV or maybe the new Canons, but DV is what you know (I say this because you don't mention being an HD pro).

Hambartsum said:
THe rest of the money will be used for a tripod (though I think I can get a good one from school), and mics, which I'll need to buy because the school wont lent it out to me for as long as I will need it.

Honestly, this is sucky budgeting for your kind of feature. You're paying too much for all the wrong things.

Hambartsum said:
As for renting a DP, due to the nature of my 'scheduling' problems, renting a DP is out of the question.

You DP. That's what you want to do anyway so you might as well start now. I went to film school 10 years ago. I shot my first flick two years or so ago. Now I'm director, DP and star.

Hambartsum said:
So I have no choice, I need to buy the camera, I need a comp (MacBook Pro), and I need some storage (hearing about the Cineporter, I'd probably go with that).

Where do we stand?

Simple. You got $15,000. HD sound good and it's the hot thing right now. Let me be real with you. 70% of people (or more) are still on SD. Buy the HVX only to have when HD explodes (which will be soon enough) on the unwashed masses.

This is your budget:

DVX100a/XL2.........................$3000
Tripod..............................$150
Lighting
3 halogen worklights with tungsten bulbs $150 (or under)
1 basic 3 light kit..........$300
1 Stickypod...................$79
1 Spreader Dolly............$50
(1 DIY track dolly............$70)
17 inch Macbook Pro...........$3000
Azden Pro mic.....................$150

Total (roughly): $6579

This leaves:
$3000 = paying actors and buying food.

So you've got $3000 = locations (you pay only $50 - $100 a day for rental of homes or apartments) and if you want you can even buy cheap production insurance. (Someone will sale it to you for about $1000). Let's not forget FCP or FCExpress. Student discounts will get these babies for cheap. (Let's not forget to factor in travel).

You can also substract an extra $1000 if you want a jib and Kata Bag or hard case for your camera + a DVXUser 5 hour battery (buy two if you can), lavs and a 500gb external drive. The money that's left is for promotion.

This is your film. Have fun. I couldn't image having $15,000 and even wordering could it be done (but I've been through it so I know it can be, and have done it for a lot less). But before any of this you've got to get your script tight. Save money by buying a Powerbook. A highend G4 Powerbook from eBay (people have edited DV and HD on them for quite awhile and are using them now to edit HDV) or a midrange MacBook Pro. Think maybe even about getting a highend MacBook instead of the pro and a using a monitor with it. (Keep in mind there won't be full MacTell integration until FCP6 later this year or early next year). Get film students to PA, gaff and boom and make sure they get credit (particularly IMDB credit if possible) and food for their efforts.

-Nate
 
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I love this thread though sooner or later they will kick us out here. They will have to move us to the DVX-sites :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

So if you really want to do it fast and dirty, prepare you very well, make AS MUCH REHEARSALS AS POSSIBLE, check the script again and again, search the perfect locations, and ARRANGE AT LEAST A WHOLE WEEK FOR SHOOTING. (if people are willing to sacrifice their weekends, that are 9 DAYS OF SHOOTING) Try to shoot at least 8 minutes a day and then get one or two weekends to shoot the rest. There are always parts of a movie that don't need the whole crew. Put these parts together and shoot them on those final weekends. Pay the people something, simply as much as you can, It´s just a great feeling if you can buy yourself a beer after work. Feed them good. Give them credits. Make contracts that guarantee participation if the film results to be an exito.

And don´t forget the party!
 
this is all supporting what I am thinking - this revolutionary camera at 17K is not really that - It is much more expensive than that. For the same price you can rent a varicam for a VERY LONG TIME- very long.

If you have the budget to get a fully outfitted RED then yes you should go for it - if you are only getting the basic camera you might as well rent at this price point. The hvx is worth owning at its price point - I am not sure if 40K (or even 30K) is the right price point for owning.
 
With still lenses the RED will be at 20K, not at 30K or 40K. And you need time to get used to a camera. I´s not only the time on the set. You need to play with it, trying the settings etc. RED is not cheap, the HVX isn't cheap either. But each might fit your needs and your budged.
 
I just got done producing and directing a feature for $15000. It can be done.

An early poster suggested $1000 for cell phone calls. A couple of people on my set had unlimited calling so I am not sure where that number comes from.

I brought two actors in from LA at $100 a day. That came out to about $2600. It was only a two week shoot. The other lead was local, but still paid $100 a day.

Catering was $3400. Equipment was already owned. Renting is a valid option or you can just buy, then re-sale the equipment. Either way, you are looking at $2000.

Two of the main locations cost $1500. A $100 donation for another.

$800 for the makeup artist. $1600 to the producer. $1000 for petty cash and drinks.

Special effects guy was paid $1600, but wasn't worth $20. Anyway, horror effects can be done really cheaply.

Yeah, I didn't have a large crew and about five people worked for free, but the moral of the story is it can be done. If you want it bad enough, you will find a way to do it.

Jim
 
baquajim said:
An early poster suggested $1000 for cell phone calls. A couple of people on my set had unlimited calling so I am not sure where that number comes from.

That was me. My calculations are based on prices and needs in the Dominican Republic. Cell phone calls here are pretty expensive. Also there are few people here that can work for free - they have to belong to the small and rich upper class. But there are MANY people, and some of them very skilled and talented (They shot part of Apocalypse Now, The Godfather and Miami Vice here for example) that would work for much less than someone in the United States. So it might be difficult to shoot a feature for 15.000 but it is possible to shoot a professional made feature for about 50.000.
 
If you have plenty of time to do casting (several months), you can probably find some great actors willing to work for just food, lodging (on your couch) and gas money. I am shooting a feature for around $50k starting in a week. I spent 4 months casting it and found some great actors that liked the script enough to work for free for 2 full weeks. They are all professional actors and 2 of the 4 that are here for 2 weeks even took off time from their day jobs to do it.

It really just comes down to you just got to really get good at selling youself and your abilities and have a good script. As for food, I would make sure to have someone available for the whole shoot to be in charge of food. Then get a Sams club and buy a ton of bulk food. Make sure to include at least 1 hot meal each day on the set. This will buy you big points with everyone.

I can't really give you much advice in the equipment department because I am shootign on an HVX and have a ton of lights and other equipment but I would probably get a used DVX to start with, there are a ton for sale on these forums.

Good luck on the project.
 
Shot six (you heard right, six) scenes on thursday. Two actors drove from Minnesota and Ohio to shoot it. I ran to Jewel figuring the ride would be a few hours. Turns out both ladies had been riding for about six hours through pouring rain. I had two bags of bagels and that cream cheese with the jelly in it plus special K cereal bars waiting for them. If they wanted coffee I could've got some from the lounge downstairs.

All the actors were good (at least good enough to tell the story without wood). We called in two professionals (people who get paid to act/model). These people came in did great work and want to do more. Actors love acting but if they're doing it for free (pro people who are volunteering their time for a mutually benefical arrangement) the trick is respect their time and if you know they're going to be hungry, thirsty, etc. You have to be prepared. When we did our fight scene we had about four people but I had about 10 bottles of Powerade ready. We couldn't really keep it cool but no one had any complaints and it seemed to do the trick. (I was fighting that day too and drunk two bottles myself).

Now if I had $15,000 I'd be paying people about $50 to $100 and many times they'd be more than dedicated for this amount. Buy a small cooler with ice in it for drinks. Paying an actor anything you can is good because some people have cash and try to get over. On a three thousand dollar budget we still managed to pay our main people a little bit and do some things for others to help them out for their time. We used students to shoot and boom (under my direction) and so far everything has come out fine. Nothing is without flaw but most problems were handled easily in post. If you have $15,000 you have a lot more than most at your level.

You need to be thinking proactively and planning. DO NOT HIRE YOUR FRIENDS if it will put your production hold or make you have to have to work around a bunch of schedules. You should be shooting something every weekend and at night if you can't get actors through the day. My project (shooting two days a week or so) has taken all summer, your project will take all year if you don't plan and time it correctly. Plus plan for unscripted scenes you may come up with that may drive your story better. And again I say first, "get the script tight".

-Nate
 
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