Feature Film With $15,000

Final

Final

Guys I really appreciate all the advice you have been giving and I don't want to seem stubborn. You have all really helped.

My school has 2.5gz G5s which are fast. The problem I want to be able to take my work from school to my house, I have a PC (1.6gz, 1gigRAM) that I don't thiknk will cut it when it comes to editing HD, not to mention that I can't bring work from Final Cut to my PC, so I need a Mac, also I need a labtop (in general), hence the MacBook Pro, its not just for the film...

Getting a camera from my school is impossible because the demand is way too high, the most I would able to get the DVX for would be a week, then I'd have to wait weeks again to get it, basically its out of the question.

Do you guys think I should get the p2 cards as well or will the Firestore be enough, spending on both would really mess up my budget. Maybe I can rent the p2s.

Also, I still don't understand the workflow of HVX too well, meaning after I get the footage on to a harddrive what do I need to have to be able to edit ProHD, other then a powerful comp, what other hardware do I need?

As far as the actors are concered, I know exactly what you guys are saying when using student actors the film screams 'STUDENT FILM' there are many in my school who have fallen under that trap, I so far, with my shorts, have not, and I wont, in that I can recognize a 'STUDENT FILM' and if thats how things come out I simply will not go on with postproduction. The other thing is I have workerd with this friend before and also I will be using his family and his life in a documentary fashion to place in the ficitonal film, as far as the other actors are concered, I have no set decision yet, so I will be looking into SAG and such...

This is my last post on this matter for, as I am sure you are all fed up with me, thank you all for the invalubale help, I will post more as I progress in pre-production.
 
^
If you can't wait for the Cineporter yet, I'd suggest just getting two 4 gig P2 cards ($1100) and a P2 Store ($1550) and hot swapping. You'll be able to do native mode this way and you, if you get an assistant, you won't lose any time as you'll always be recording to one card while the other is offloading.

As for what you need to do once you have them, it's not that hard. With FCP you are gonna have to use a program to convert them to AVI format since Apple doesn't like MXF. You'll need to do the same thing for Vegas or Premiere. If you use Avid you simply put the MXF files into your Avid Media folder and then open them with the medial tool; very easy with no conversion. Unfortunatly, Avid won't let you extract redundant frames but this won't be an issue if you shot in Native mode. Finally, Eduis Broadcast is said to support every aspect of P2 and MXF management. It'll even let you print back to the card.
 
He needs to learn his lesson the hard way. Sometimes that's for the better.
 
i was this guy about a year ago and i guess i sort of still am this guy. all i can say is...good luck!
 
You know, I hope he does well but honestly,

I can see the $15,000 up in smoke and three months of his life gone for no good reason.
 
My suggestion: Your funds are NON REPLENISHABLE. IE, NOT TAKEN FROM YOUR WORKING INCOME. Therefore, do not spend if you can avoid it.

Buy the DVX100 rather than the HVX. DV is recordable to TAPE. $4.50/hr. Editable on a ratty plain pc or laptop with the BASE NLE systems. Don't create a workflow nightmare for yourself if you can avoid it. DVX screens well, and is not an embarassment... provided you light it and shoot it well. and if you don't, well then a HVX won't do anything but make it even more obvious.

(Myself, I plan to buy a HVX... but shoot it in DV for a while until this HD workflow nonsense sorts itself out and until I become skilled and competent with the camera. I expect it to take a while. If you HAVE the extra 2 grand to blow now, raise your budget to 17k and get the HVX. But good god, start out shooting DV. Its SOOO much easier to work with.)

Spend the savings on a field mixer ($500-600), a cheap boom, a minimally decent tripod, and an assortment of filters (ND, Grad ND, soft1, soft2, sunsoft, and contrast reduction). If in doubt, buy the 82mm filters and a single adapter ring, so you can use them when you upgrade to the HVX later.

Don't bother with a 35mm adapter. It will slow you down, and add very little to your project. (I don't think you mentioned one, but just in case).

Don't buy lights if you can borrow them. If you do need lights, just get cheap ones to start with. Briteks w/ barn doors and softboxes are cheap... but be prepared to learn repair and fabricating skills.

And you better get the script done. Yesterday. You need time to iterate it many times before you try shooting your fall establishing shots.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and a $200 mk012 for indoors, and an at4073 seems to smoke the ME66 in most head to heads.
 
i would focus on learning on this go around, not aquiring equipment. above advice is sound. best of luck.
 
i had a huuuge respnse typed and i hit the back button on my mouse.


*goes into a rage ala Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction*

ok much better. Now let me begin by first concuring with the above posts; GO DVX!!!

Trust me. For one, if you are not using lighting, you will have minimal control over the acquired image.
Secondly, unless you have a makeup artist, your friends are going to leave you hanging from a tree when you screen their pimply faces in Hi Def. Seriously, HD is as dangerous as it is cool. The only reason Hollywood looks so damn good is well...they start with the best looking people (usually) and then have professional makeup artists make them look even better. Next, the DP lights them to enhance their good lookingness EVEN MORE. Thats why they use the best cameras and most resolution available (with the exception of 70mm film which is oh so beautiful...Baraka anyone?). No offense, but no one wants to look at the disgusting mole and hairlip of your girlfriend in the love scene. (credit to Bret Stern for that one! And i strongly suggest you check out his book, "How to Shoot a Feature Film for Under $10,000" - it is truly invaluable information about this business). No but seriously, I am as HD-obsessed as the next guy *spends 2 hours drooling in the RED forum*. But if you can't use all that beefy 1080p res to your advantage, it will only hurt you. I know that nature and things without contrived lighting can look gorgeous, but not always. If you go DV, and DVX, not only will it save you a headache in POST, but you might keep your friends too.

Now if you go DVX, you will obviously have more money. So that means you should consider things like a DOLLY. You will be KICKING yourself on set when the only form of movment available to you is zoom or shaky hand. A nice dolly = instant production value. You can get great deals here at DVXUser; Rowe's Cine Dolly goes for under $500 - well in your range. You should also consider a JIB (no your 6'6" tall friend you've nicknamed "Jim the Jib" can't do all the crane shots!). You can get a nice jib that will attatch to your tripod legs for about 500 on EVS or BHphoto. Both of these nifty pieces of equipment will make your film instantly more enjoyable AND creative!

One last thing, if another reason you need the HVX is FRAMERATES...and you can't live without those awesome slo-mo sequences? Well I guess disregard my blanter immediately and buy it! Serisouly, I am really wanting an HVX JUST for the framerates! Hi Def Schmi def. It's the framerates that count! But if you can live without Glass smooth slo-mo, (which if you get Barry Green's book, you will get invaluable information regarding tricks in post which enable you to get decent slo mo out of 60i) id stick wih DV for now, take this as an opportunity to LEARN and develop a style and learn EVERY aspect of filmmaking. You will end up having more production value with a Jib and Dolly, and you will still have friends.

Thats my schpeel. Take what you will from a community college bum who is DPing a feature with his buddy, DVXUser "-JUNK-". Whatever you decide to do, learn and have a great time.
 
Hi 500lb - tell me more about these mics - I was all set to buy the ME66. I'd love more options, and want to spend out on sound quality, as in many ways, it's less forgiving than picture quality.

Many thanks
Lucas
Lightfeat Productions
 
500lb Productions said:
Oh yeah, and a $200 mk012 for indoors, and an at4073 seems to smoke the ME66 in most head to heads.
Click to expand...

Hit reply - should have hit quote. That's what I'm refering to then.
 
There is a GREAT book, kind of techinically out of date, but the principles are not. It is called "Feature Filmmaking At Used Car Prices" by Rick Schmidt. In fact, his exact budget is $15,000. Actually this book is the guide Robert Rodriguez used in making El Mariachi, so that gives you an idea of the vintage. He did update it a few years ago as DV Filmmaking At Used Car Prices, but either one will provide an excellent blueprint.
 
Lightfeat said:
Hi 500lb - tell me more about these mics - I was all set to buy the ME66. I'd love more options, and want to spend out on sound quality, as in many ways, it's less forgiving than picture quality.

Many thanks
Lucas
Lightfeat Productions
Click to expand...

I am still an audio newbie.... but the head to heads show the AT4073 clearly sounds better than the me66, and holds its own against the 413.

The kit I built is:

AT4073a ~$650 w/ rode shock mount & header cable
gitzo carbon fiber fishpole (the long one) ~$250
oktava mk012 from the sound room. $~200
used field mixer $~500
A couple 1/4" light pole to micstand adapters $~10
4x25' cables
2x10' cables
2x6' cables

I still havent chosen my wind protection solution. That will add another $20 (DIY) to $~200.

This is a BIG chunk of MY $15,000 movie that I hadn't really excpected, but I don't think its really negotiable. Go to the audio sections and read everything you can find. The real PRO's would tell you that I also need a timecode DAT to really get acceptable audio. We will see, they may still turn out to be right.

I intend to follow my own advice from previously... i'm getting the HVX, but shooting this first feature in 24p DV (don't expect to need overcranked footage according to this scrip). This way I dont need $2000 worth of P2 cards, and $2000 worth of intermediary HD workflow doohickeys.

Although I have a bag full of pro Nikon glass, I'm probably not bothering with a 35mm adapter this first time out. I dunno, I may borrow one and shoot a short just to have a comparison point.

I DO expect to spend around $2000 on additional lighting gear.

I also do expect to shoot more than one feature, so this will make the second feature's budget go farther. first feature = a lot of gear, some insurance, and some food and not much else.

Second and additional features = very littlle gear, some insurance and food, and more money to spend on wardrope, sets, props, art design, crew etc.
 
"The kit I built is:

AT4073a ~$650 w/ rode shock mount & header cable
gitzo carbon fiber fishpole (the long one) ~$250
oktava mk012 from the sound room. $~200
used field mixer $~500
A couple 1/4" light pole to micstand adapters $~10
4x25' cables
2x10' cables
2x6' cables"

I think we are living a parallel learning curve, after trolling the audio section I was considering the above as well. I was wondering if you thought about wireless. I am torn between buying G2's and renting the above or the opposite. I know the audio wired is considered a bit better, but wireless seems a heck of a lot easier especially on a low budget. (less blocking, set up, no boom operator, the ability to be low profile when needed) It's cheaper also to rent wired than wireless. we are talking 15k film making. Just thinking out loud.

Disclaimer: I understand the importance of sound, and it is one of the obvious "tells" of low budget film making. I plan on having one dedicated sound crew member checking levels
 
One last thing, if another reason you need the HVX is FRAMERATES...and you can't live without those awesome slo-mo sequences? Well I guess disregard my blanter immediately and buy it! Serisouly, I am really wanting an HVX JUST for the framerates! Hi Def Schmi def. It's the framerates that count!
Click to expand...

Slow motion is just one of many tools and there are numerous times when I'd rather use post production slow motion (just doubling frames with strobe affect) rather than in camera. It's a nice feature but shouldn't be your only reason for getting the camera and is hardly the most important thing about it. I really hope the HVX200 doesn't lead to a bunch of gimicky slow mo shots every five minutes.
 
I think you should spend the $1,100 or so for 2 4 gig cards. you're losing alot of image quality and resolution by shooting on tape. you have the camera, you should use it to it's fullest. if you don't have a laptop, try to get borrow or buy a cheap laptop with a pcmcia slot.
 
mattsdp said:
Rent! Rent! Rent! I just finished a feature that had the same budget,and they made the major mistake of trying to buy everything to pull it off, and it truly made the process of shooting the film pure hell for them!

By all means rent the gear!! If you had a budget of $100,000...then sure buy what you need. But don't get sucked into this "gear lust" man! It will burn you badly! If you want to buy gear...then buy it and don't center it around a movie!

Making a movie and buying gear are two different things! Completely different!!

You have to make a choice between the two if you only have 15,000. Don't let the selfish monster get you!
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With your own gear you can shoot whatever you want, whenever you want. With a $15,000 rental option for or during a couple of days/weeks of shooting, you'll have less. Not exactly more -- as it seems. Or even it can be (even if just for a particular shooting plan).
 
Emanuel said:
With your own gear you can shoot whatever you want, whenever you want. With a $15,000 rental option for or during a couple of days/weeks of shooting, you'll have less. Not exactly more -- as it seems. Or even it can be (even if just for a particular shooting plan).
Click to expand...

I agree. What you gain with owning your equipment is time and control. Unless you, your crew and actors can dispose the time fully to participate on your project, you will have to book different days and separated in periods of time- this costs more when you rent. Also, when you start, it needs time for you, your team and actors to start to get into 2nd gear- unless you know this people very well, have worked with them or have hired seasoned professionals, you'll need time to stablish teamwork and chemistry. Rehearsals, location scouting, test shots, etc, work much better with equipment on site.

Concerning the fundamental gear you should get, definetly get as much light as you can. I would suggest a 3500 light budget minimum. Why? You'll use them forever. I would suggest a kit of Arrilites, maybe 1 1000 w, 3 600, 1 300 and 2 150w. I would also suggest getting portable, battery powered lighting gear. There are lights and systems that can power up to two 300w lights. These are very good if you plan to shoot outdoors, guerrila style. You can get away with these lights for most night shooting (don't expect to get most background detail, but good character lighting is possible)

Of course, I would suggest getting a camera. Consider either the HVX ($5300) or the Canon A1 ($3500). There's much information on both cameras in this board so do a search.

HIRE professional actors, or find actors in theatre and film schools. DO not use your friends or relatives- unless they got the experience, of course.

Buy a nice fluid tripod ($1200)

Have someone to take care of DOP work for you ($1000), specially lighting and detail (mise-en-scene). Concentrate on your shots and on the acting. Once again, film school is the place to go

Find an aspiring composer ($1000)- do not use can music. Music is as important as image in film. Don't take it with less consideration

Find a professional sound guy, or aspiring sound guy from film school. I would go with the aspiring sound guy (as well as DOP) because they shouldn't have such big egos as the "professionals". If you're starting, you'll sure hear from these guys a lot, and if they loose faith in you, its over- the crew will feel it, the actors, etc... It'll be hell.

Find people to help- but trustworthy. You wouldn't want the smooth talker friend to monopolize everyone's atention, or someone without a sense of responsability just ruining team spirit.

Get a Macbook pro with an external Firewire 800 disk array. it would be enough for HVX editing. Also get a Matrox MXO for monitoring and having dvcprohd editing accelerated in your macbook pro.

If you fancy a desktop, get a Macpro, and get at least 2 tb of storage (if you are going for dvcpro hd P2 editing.)

I think this would be enough for getting a reasonable short film out.

P.S-Don't forget cattering and transportation for the crew and actors!
 
Just a question on your post for night shooting. Do you have any recommendations on a light system that could power up to 2 300w lights? It'd make my life a good deal easier!
 
wartez said:
Just a question on your post for night shooting. Do you have any recommendations on a light system that could power up to 2 300w lights? It'd make my life a good deal easier!
Click to expand...

Try looking in the Ianiro web site. They have a battery powered light system that can power 300w lights, I presume.

Arri also sells a similar system, but not as powerful.
 
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