HVX200 vs. XL-H1
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J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
AshG said:
Who's blahing Ash ?
Sales figures are meaningless ?
It'll come down to what it looks like in the end; and (Canon buyer beware) the XL2 looked like crap. Theres a reason the HVX is selling like wildfire; because it has Mojo; that oft stated intangible we can't quite put our finger on.
The only thing I can agree on is Testing the camera yourself. But people preferring one camera over the other (or workflow or combinaton of) is not reguritation; its just preference.
So why chastise it ?
This camera looks like it can be a knockout; we'll see.
John_Hudson said:
I still can't stand the way XL2 footage looks. Or XL1 for that matter. How 28 Days Later worked is beyond me, but it's in my collection.
Gotta admit, though... HDV or not: XL-H1 footage is a world beyond it's older brothers. Footage doesn't even look nearly as Playskool.
Spartacus said:
Don't take this the wrong way--
It's fine for music videos... but honestly if you came up with the right scheme you could probably get away with a new Sony AVC-HD handycam for a music video...
The only narrative work that I have scene that looked just fine (this is me and my opinion) would be 28 Days.
I know people that work on XL2's still, for shorts and music videos and documentaries. I just don't care for the odd look that it produces. How the XL-H1 looks different, I have no idea. It does, though.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
I'm on the same page as Kholi 100%.
He and I drink from the same Kool-Aid cup apparently. (Rolls eye's)
He and I drink from the same Kool-Aid cup apparently. (Rolls eye's)
You lose all credibilty when you say things like, "XL2 footages looks like crap." I have shot tons of beautiful broadcast footage on the XL2, and the DVX. Anyone can make any camera with manual controls look like crap OR look quite good. I have seen lots of raw F900 footage that looked terrible.
I dont prefer any camera in general, I choose the camera best for the job. Go back a year or two... how many people were talking about color space, codecs, etc.? WAY fewer. That is regurgitation, especially when you consider, many, if not MOST of the people perpetuating these arguments dont even OWN the cameras in question.
Forums used to be meant to share your opinions based on your experience and knowledge but now it seems more are becoming a conduit for the company line, talk of mojo and other made up words and call all other cameras "crap."
ash =o)
I dont prefer any camera in general, I choose the camera best for the job. Go back a year or two... how many people were talking about color space, codecs, etc.? WAY fewer. That is regurgitation, especially when you consider, many, if not MOST of the people perpetuating these arguments dont even OWN the cameras in question.
Forums used to be meant to share your opinions based on your experience and knowledge but now it seems more are becoming a conduit for the company line, talk of mojo and other made up words and call all other cameras "crap."
ash =o)
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
AshG said:
I'm not looking for credibility like you are Ash. And aren't I stating my opinion ?
You lose all credibility when you cannot accept one's opinion on the matter. You say the forum is for stating opinions yet bemoan when I state mine ?
There are a laundry list of people that thinks the XL2 looks like crap. All things being equal (Which they are not and that is the point), I couldn't be paid to use an XL2. I know people that swear on the camera and so be it.
Is that okay ?
That is my opinion.
And MOJO sums it up (The HVX / The DVX / The XL1 Frame Mode at the time perfectly.
Let people have an opinion Ash, whether you agree with it or not.
AshG said:
I've seen HORRIBLE F900 footage. I'm sure that the XL1, 1s, and 2 can do wonders when in the right hands. My standpoint wasn't that it looked like crap (I know you were referring to Hudson), it was that I haven't seen anything outside of the afformentioned movie that I liked. It's just a visual preference, here. But no solid evidence to say that one camera is better than the other.
I'm brand agnostic, like Emanuel.
I'm sure as hell salivatin' for the A1's October launch... (Or some kinda SURPRISE!!! from Panasonic in the form of a sub four-thousand dollar camera.)
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
I agree Kholi. Cooties is bad.
And that is all it is Ash.
As soon as (insert camera company here) comes along and offers something better than the DVX/HVX options; I'm there. It may be the new Canon, the Red, a mystery Sony we do not yet know about .....
I call it like I see it and I don't speak for anyone but myself. So when I say (insert camera here) looks like crap:
DON'T TAKE (Make) IT PERSONAL
And that is all it is Ash.
As soon as (insert camera company here) comes along and offers something better than the DVX/HVX options; I'm there. It may be the new Canon, the Red, a mystery Sony we do not yet know about .....
I call it like I see it and I don't speak for anyone but myself. So when I say (insert camera here) looks like crap:
DON'T TAKE (Make) IT PERSONAL
Elton
Veteran
I have to say mojo is in the eye of the beholder. Canon HDV can have plenty of mojo, it just depends on how it's used. John, I certainly see your point about preference however. That's all this stuff boils down to.
Here's a simple canoe/lake shot I took when I went camping up in the mountains. This was 24F HDV and it's encoded in AVC (h.264) at a bit rate you can use with HD DVD/Blu Ray:
Clip: http://www.realm.cc/upload/Elton/Canoe1h264.mov (16 sec. 47 MB)
Here's a simple canoe/lake shot I took when I went camping up in the mountains. This was 24F HDV and it's encoded in AVC (h.264) at a bit rate you can use with HD DVD/Blu Ray:
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J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
You and I have always seen eye to eye on this subject matter.
Jeez; I bet Professional DP's have the same discussions about Arri/Panavision or Kodak/Fuji ...
Ford / Chevy
PC / Mac
Blonde / Brunette
It is not personal to me... just make your opinions less inflammatory. I have a feeling that if I started a thread called, "The HVX looks like CRAP!" and then backed it up with, "it lacks the MOJO of the XLH" that there would be a lot of people taking it personal.
Remember, the start of this thread was asking for a camera comparison not a barrage of opinions by people who have never even TOUCHED an XL series camera, let alone an XLH. That is my beef, personal opinions that are not based on personal experience.
For me, I own an XL2 to shoot SD and an HVX to shoot HD. About half my jobs require renting an XLH, Vari, SDX, etc. My opinions are based on my own personal knowledge and wealth of real-world experience, not what some dude on a fake Panny or Canon blog says, or a credible blog for that matter.
ash =o)
Remember, the start of this thread was asking for a camera comparison not a barrage of opinions by people who have never even TOUCHED an XL series camera, let alone an XLH. That is my beef, personal opinions that are not based on personal experience.
For me, I own an XL2 to shoot SD and an HVX to shoot HD. About half my jobs require renting an XLH, Vari, SDX, etc. My opinions are based on my own personal knowledge and wealth of real-world experience, not what some dude on a fake Panny or Canon blog says, or a credible blog for that matter.
ash =o)
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
My first experience in DV was with an XL1. I was this close (Holding fingers really close)to buying one in fact. One must not touch any camera to have an opinion of it. We have all seen 'tons' of work done on all of the cameras. We know what we want.
Ill repeat here what I just PM'd you:
It is a visual preference. I am not a fan of watercolor (I'm an oil guy) and have seen some watercolors that were really cool; fantasic in fact. At the end of the day, Im still an oil guy.
I have seen some really cool XL2 stuff but at the end of the day 'It still has that XL2 thing going'
The XL2 is crap IMO. Don't take it personal. I also think the SONY is crap and the JVC is crap.
I used to be in love with the Canon XL1 but now I think it is crap. See how it goes round and round ? After RED who knows what Ill think ?
It is not personal and I am not going to change the word Crap because it insults your sensibilites; no offense. Really.
Jeez.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
No no no
Its on topic as far as I can see (now). Its a perfect example.
Again, the Watercolor is fabulous; but I'm not hanging it up on my wall.
Its on topic as far as I can see (now). Its a perfect example.
Again, the Watercolor is fabulous; but I'm not hanging it up on my wall.
AshG said:
Ash what are you shooting a dogme95 film? I've never understood the obsession over shooting in lowlight. I don't understand the concept behind crippling a camera already riddled with its fair share of limitations. :huh:
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