Nasty interlace in 24p, what am I doing wrong??

reverse telecine on 24p advanced footage...are you sure that won't cause any problems? because advanced isn't telecined. just need to remove the extra 5th "frame"
 
So i shot 24pa and put it into a PP2.0 24fps timeline. I put out to AVI. And i STILL get interlacing. I use WMP to play it. When i pause it the jaggies go away and its regular motion blur. When i put the finished AVI back into PP the jaggies go away. The only time they present themselves is during playback on WMP.

Well it turns out that the interlacing only shows during WMP playback. I tried in powerDVD and it turns out fine.

Anyone know what this is about?
 
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That is correct. I even did "deinterlace" just for the heck of it. But I guess its not on my end. Its windows media player. for some reason it shows the jaggies. thats not cool :(
 
okay hopefully i'm reading this right...WMP is showing interlace jaggies on progressive video? got a clip?
 
I just tried looking at the footage on my work computer and windows media player is playing it fine here. It seems like im waisting your guys' time. But i wonder whats going on with my WMP at home.
 
This seems much clearer to me, but how do you remove those added frames you mention when you have shot in 24p?????? I use FCP.
Thanks
 
Okay, I've had a lot of headaches with 24pn going to DVD in the past as well. First off, all my productions go to broadcast and the rule of thumb seems to be (or used to be) 24pn for broadcast (interlaced 29.97) and 24pa for film out. The problem is, computers and 99% of DVD players are progressive scan - as a result all my 24pn footage looked like hell going to dvd. To cinetools and reconform after a 1 hr to 90 minute fine cut is insane and virtually impossible (if you ever want to move on to your next gig before you die). So after searching out this problem many, many times - here is what I did (the results look great, and I'm sure someone will ***** about it, but the client is happy and so am I):

Colour correct with curves (Color Finesse)

Export a self contained Reference file from Final Cut Pro

Bring into Cleaner = Deinterlace Auto Adaptive, Blur Mild, Sharpen 2.3 + 50 Radius, Adaptive Noise Moderate, Gamma 30, Contrast 19, Saturation 9, Codec Apple Photo JPEG (the thing about converting to DV to Photo JPEG is you don't have that damn colour/luma problem when you go to DVD - Gamma 30 also compensates for Mac computer)

Render out and bring in to Bitvice.

Bitvice = 4.10 – 5.50 – 7.90 – High Precision – DVNC 2

Import into DVDSP and burn baby burn.

Try it out. If it's crap - post your findings. If it works - well, post that too.


PS - I think from now on though, I'll just shoot 24pa. If I have to add any 60i footage I'll just run that through Nattress and convert to 24p.
 
planetearth said:
the rule of thumb seems to be (or used to be) 24pn for broadcast (interlaced 29.97) and 24pa for film out.
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Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. (Slow motion heartbeat.)

I wish this would die . . . .

:kali:

24pA for editing on a 24p timeline. 24p standard for editing on a 60i timeline.

That's the real rule.


To cinetools and reconform after a 1 hr to 90 minute fine cut is insane and virtually impossible (if you ever want to move on to your next gig before you die).
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If you want it to be right, you have to put in the time. There's no way around this.

But doing a reverse telecine (Cinema Tools) after you're done is the wrong way to go about it. You need to do a reverse telecine on your 24p standard footage before you edit. Then edit in 24p.

If you edit in 60i, all of your transitions, text and text rolls, compositing, etc., will be rendered in 60i. This is bad enough on its own, because the movement cadence won't match the 24p and it will look "off" -- but then when you try to reverse-telecine it, all that stuff rendered at 60i motion will look horrible.

If you're working with 24p footage, you really need to be editing in 24p.

And because you need to be editing in 24p, you should be shooting in 24pA.

But if you didn't shoot in 24pA and shot 24p standard, then you need to to a reverse telecine and then edit in 24p.

It's the only way to do it right (at least in FCP).






Colour correct with curves (Color Finesse)

Export a self contained Reference file from Final Cut Pro

Bring into Cleaner = Deinterlace Auto Adaptive, Blur Mild, Sharpen 2.3 + 50 Radius, Adaptive Noise Moderate, Gamma 30, Contrast 19, Saturation 9, Codec Apple Photo JPEG (the thing about converting to DV to Photo JPEG is you don't have that damn colour/luma problem when you go to DVD - Gamma 30 also compensates for Mac computer)

Render out and bring in to Bitvice.

Bitvice = 4.10 – 5.50 – 7.90 – High Precision – DVNC 2
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Forget all this. First of all, you never, ever, want to deinterlace 24p footage. You want to remove the pulldown. You want to do this because if you deinterlace, you not only screw up your motion cadence (because the wrong fields will be removed), you throw away up to half your vertical resolution, too.

Second, you can't fake it and have it come out correctly. Just do the reverse telecine before you edit. It's the only right way to do it with 24p standard.


PS - I think from now on though, I'll just shoot 24pa. If I have to add any 60i footage I'll just run that through Nattress and convert to 24p.
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That's what you need to do.
 
I totally agree with David Jimerson on all the points. However, it's so damn easy to piss-and-moan on these boards, constantly pointing out what everyone is doing wrong. I was simply providing a solution if your back is up against the wall, and for numerous reasons you absolutely can't go back and rebuild from scratch (and yes, there truly are situations like this), but you do want something to work. Sure we could all go back and forth on what is better and who's is bigger, but sometimes on these boards I would just like to see a solution and why it works and in what situation. (Talking in cicles and getting tongue tied with semantics is not my idea of getting a problem solved)

Should you do it right in the first place - of course. Is the 24pn for broadcast and the 24pa output to film scenario just a myth - sure seems that way to me (as I was trying to point out in my original post). Should we all live a healthier lifestyle in order to avoid a triple by-pass - you bet. It's just - sometimes - some people - might need to opt for the triple by-pass.

Cheers,
Dr. Bob
 
24pA for editing on a 24p timeline. 24p standard for editing on a 60i timeline.
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while i understand that and yes the world has changed, but consider i bought the DVX when there wasn't an NLE with a 24p timeline.

Is the 24pn for broadcast and the 24pa output to film scenario just a myth
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it's in the DVX manual...so whoever wrote the manual created the "myth" i for one will follow the manual, but there's nothing wrong with what david's saying because i completely understand his POV and why he's saying it. for one why shoot standard when in a few months everything is going to be progressive anyway. you can convert your progressive to interlaced if you needed to so why not just shoot 24p advanced because converting the standard to progressive won't have the same quality as just shooting progressive.
 
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