P2 to External HD in Field

LighthouseMedia said:
Carlos what they are referring to is the fact that if you are using the HVX in 1394 HOSt mode you can only transfer 15 4GB Cards for a total of around 60GBS regardless of the size of the HDD you are using. The camera actually counts the number of times you dump to the drive when 15 times is up you will need to reformat the HDD before you can back up to it again. I'm not 100% sure of the reasoning for this but you can do a search here on the boards as this has been discussed at length.
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Then that is very serious limitation for me. That would be around 60 minutes, which would be less than half the recording time per day I did on several jobs.

That would invalidate the major advantage video has over film when doing documentaries.

Is there any way to bypass that limitation? The only one that occurs to me is just swapping the HDD drives on the external combo.

Seems like it was purposely designed for people to use laptops, which is not a bad idea, certainly. You can then download the laptop files onto the larger HDD.
 
Best bet would be to get several 60GB Drives in a swappable enclosure as mentioned. Another option someone correct me here but If I'm not mistaken I don't think the limit would apply to transfer to a USB OTG device. You could get a USB OTG HDD put the camera in USB DEVICE mode and transfer that way only problem is two fold.

1. Transferring via USB is pretty slow I think Barry said it took him right at 8 mins to transfer a 4GB card.

2.The only indicator you get that the transfer is complete is a light or beep indicator on the HDD.

I don't know what mode you where planning to record in but going to 720/24PN will get you almost double your straight 24P record time. You get 10 mins per 4GB card. In that mode you would get roughy 150mins per 60 GB DRIVE. Also In my experience P2 workflow saves me by allowing me to review instantly and mark the good takes and dump the bad ones. This means not that I shoot less but I'm basically doing rough editing in camera as I shoot, getting me back to the studio with just the footage that is good and useable. SO if you do that in the field too it will also be helpful.
 
Look, I come from film and I learnt the hard way how to be economical, both on recording and on dailies.

One of the good things of video is that you can record long interviews and pick the small pieces, the nuances, later on when you view your material calmly and away from shooting place. You don't have to take that decision in the middle of your shooting.

Just one thing: is there any way to check your download after it's on the HDD? That would be another reason to go the laptop path.
 
First off the only way to check your footage would be to hook it up to a laptop. Secondly if you came from film then you should appreciate the P2 workflow its almost identical to film except smoother and faster. However you are wanting to shoot long form (hours & Hours) of long takes for documentaries, this camera honestly may not be your best choice. There are the FS-100 that will get you around a good hour of straight record time, or the hopefully soon coming cineporter you could check out as well
 
I don't think it's totally bad an integration of a video camera and a laptop, particularly for DV/HDV. Things like monitoring on a large screen or using DVRack may be a very good thing.

Who says I liked the workflow we had in film? There were several things that were limiting: shooting time, non-rerecordable media, destructive editing.

Documentaries in particular were quite benefitted by video tools. Interviews are hard to do well, even more when you have to make non-pros talk about things. Then you need some time to get people to trust you, to relax; then you have to get to the points or get some interesting answers or stories. A 60-minute type is sometimes the minimum you need to shoot, even more when you are using just one camera.

What I like about the HVX200 is that it shoots with less compression and seems to have few or none of the HDV limitations. If there's a way around the recording limitation, then it might work for me.

As I see it, for the price you have to pay for an FS-100, it's better to get a laptop. Don't you agree?
 
Ditto...
The best workflow would be multiple P2 cards rotated to a PA who offloads them using a laptop to an external HDD or with P2 Genie you don't even need a PA. Just plug in the card and it will back up the data,give it a reel name, reformat the card, and eject it as soon as you plug the card in so you just plug in and keep on shooting.
 
What's a PA?

From what I could find out, P2 Genie is a Mac application. Sorry, have no use for anything Mac where I live. Prices are extremely high and support is terrible.

Avid is what I use. It won't take long before something similar comes along for laptop or desktop PC.

As I see it now, best investment seems to be a PC laptop (suggestions) with an external 200GB or more HDD.
 
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I have a Weibe Tech firewire device that allows me to use any eide drive as a secondary drive on my laptop. Just wondering if anyone knows if it will work directly from the HVX200 without the lap top? Just ordered mine (HVX) today, and this would be sweet if it will work.

Thanks for any info.

Bird
 
Barry_Green said:
Get a $35 MWAVE battery-powered USB2.0 "On The Go" enclosure, and an $80 80-gb 2.5" notebook hard disk.
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Can anyone recoomend a solution for users in the UK? i.e. actual available products..... I've send 2 days wandering around London trying to find suitiable components to build an external unit but drawn a COMPLETE blank :(
Cheers

Indy.....
 
Barry_Green said:
$600? Why bother with something like that? Get a $35 MWAVE battery-powered USB2.0 "On The Go" enclosure, and an $80 80-gb 2.5" notebook hard disk. For just over $100 you'd have the super-cheap offload option... but it's slow as compared to firewire offloading, and it ties up the camera during the offload. But again, it's cheap...
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The USB output (2.0 or worst) is the only flaw in your suggestion, as you well hint when compared to a firewire one.

So why not go completely 1394 then?

What I couldn't find is an "authentic" battery powered enclosure. They are mostly powered by 12v, some 5v, and current demands are not low, so battery drain should be substantial.

An 8Amp Li-Ion camera battery may not last that long, following my suggestion to use a Nebtek adaptor.

The next thing I don't quite know is how you can download (of if you can) directly from the camera onto an external HDD. What does the FS100 have as interface?
 
Carlos_E._Martinez said:
So why not go completely 1394 then?

What I couldn't find is an "authentic" battery powered enclosure.
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Sorry, I withdraw what I just said. Here's one that seems potentially interesting:


http://www.firewiregear.net/productdetails1.cfm?sku=AMS25K&catid=311,316&cats=

Price is fair: $79.

Still would like to know if it takes only a simple 1394 cable to connect it to an HVX200 or an HD100, that is in order to download P2 cards or record directly on it. Does it?
 
Got that enclosure, the battery only lasts long enough to offload about four 4gb cards.

HD100 couldn't do anything with it; only a firestore (or comparable device) will work with the HD100.

HVX can use it to offload cards to, but again, not very many before the battery is drained.
 
Barry_Green said:
Got that enclosure, the battery only lasts long enough to offload about four 4gb cards.
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You mean the internal battery, right? Can it be changed onto a larger one? Is there an external connector for a supply?

HD100 couldn't do anything with it; only a firestore (or comparable device) will work with the HD100.
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So there is a trick for the interface then! Has anyone seen or tried to find out how the Firestore works? It seems like it's not just an HDD, but a whole recording device.

Only a laptop might replace it then.

HVX can use it to offload cards to, but again, not very many before the battery is drained.
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Yes, the battery seems to be the weak link. It might be just a question of replacing if for larger capacity one, probably an external one. Can you say what voltage is the battery?
 
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Carlos_E._Martinez said:
You mean the internal battery, right? Can it be changed onto a larger one? Is there an external connector for a supply?
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Someone might be able to exchange it, but I don't know with what. I posted pictures of it a few months ago because someone had a similar idea and thought they might be able to find something, but nothing came of it. And yes it has a connector for external power.


So there is a trick for the interface then! Has anyone seen or tried to find out how the Firestore works? It seems like it's not just an HDD, but a whole recording device.
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That's correct, the FireStore is basically a microlaptop computer.

Only a laptop might replace it then.
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Correct -- it has to be something with intelligence that can import an AV/C protocol firewire stream and translate it into computer hard disk files and write them to the disk. A laptop can do that, or a dedicated special-purpose computer (like the FireStore).
 
Bird said:
Wonder if it will record HD from the camera?
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That thing is OEM'd by Shining Technology, so it's identical (other than outer design) to the CitiDisk.

Shining claims to be producing a version of the CitiDisk that will record streaming DVCPRO-HD. It's not out, so no comment on what it can or can't do, or how well it works yet.
 
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