Hvx200 Or Jvc's GY-HD100U?

M

Msk2316

New member
Alright i just want to hear you guys out. What would be the best choice for an low-budget filmaker like myself? I had my eyes set on the Hvx for some time but i just found out about the P2 thing and i really dont like the idea about not being able to record Hd on a mini Dv. And yeah i know i helps you shoot like if you were useing 35mm, and helps you take time with shots and what not but its gonna be way to much extra cash for those cards that i dont have plus if i wanted to make my shoots like if i was shooting 35mm then i would just use film. My other option is to buy a Dvx 100B. So hope you guys can help me out here.


Thanks!
 
Well, if you don't have the money, you don't have the money. My understanding and limited exposure to it leads me to believe that the HD100U is a fine camera and can produce some great images. However, the lens it ships with is crap - that much was obvious just watching it for 10 minutes. I've never liked HDV as a format, and my dislike of that far surpasses my dislike of limited P2 storage. Obviously, you feel the opposite way for whatever reason, so it might be a good choice for you.

On the other hand, it sounds like renting might be an even better choice. Then you don't have to jump into a decision you're not financially prepared for.
 
If you don't like P2, don't buy the HVX200.

The HD100, produces some filimic looking footage.
The DVXUSER forum for the HD100 has some good resources.
Also Stephen has a handfull of great video clips from the HD100.

Steve
 
Bear in mind that the HD100 really needs a battery upgrade because the standard battery life is terrible. So budget a few $100 more.
 
jvc or panny

jvc or panny

Id go with the h200 myself im just waiting for more gb on p2 my question is should i go with the jvc or the 100b in the meantime?
 
bilgami said:
Id go with the h200 myself im just waiting for more gb on p2 my question is should i go with the jvc or the 100b in the meantime?
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Well I would still go with the HVX200, you could use it like the DVX100B and would be ready for any HD assignment when the P2 cards are of sufficient size or one of the other storage options feels attractive.

My .02,

Jan
 
dougspice said:
My understanding and limited exposure to it leads me to believe that the HD100U is a fine camera and can produce some great images.
Click to expand...
Yup, so...
However, the lens it ships with is crap - that much was obvious just watching it for 10 minutes.
Click to expand...
...why?...I'm not a techie but all the stuff that I saw (Stephen footage included) it says to me that camera is the BEST cam - REAL filmic, indeed! - that I could watch @my_laptop. The only - GREATest - doubt it is how this cam would perform@big_screen after a 35mm blown up.
I've never liked HDV as a format (...)
Click to expand...
All the people here hate the HDV but I ask if it isn't more a brand issue that anything else. Until now, all the stuff that I saw - I insist: @my_laptop - it doesn't hurt my eyes! And if we will go to the post to other strong codec - like Cineform, for instance - I'm sure that it will be quite different and the limits will disappear...or am I wrong?
 
I'd wait untill the HVX200 gets into the market and gets tested side by side with your other options. I agree with Jan about the HD being there when you need it and the P2 cards will come down in cost soon so.............. oh and HDV is going to be the shortest lived format in video history. frame drops. So thats something to factor in. FCP 6 is going to kill with the HVX as well. If it's up to me buy either the HVX or a 100b if you don't have the cash for the HVX, they are going for cheap and they kick butt. But what do I know.
 
Emanuel said:
The only - GREATest - doubt it is how this cam would perform@big_screen after a 35mm blown up.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree!

I thought the HD100 has produced some of the best looking 24P stuff with decent definition and minimal aritfacts for its codec (considering its HDV). Sure it has its limitations, but so does every other camera.

Some of the recent quick HVX200 clips shows real nice colors and has that filmic quality! It also shows that it CAN produce clean images. It's all about knowing how to set your camera for the setting and what image you have in mind.

This camera is so dang flexible!

Steve
 
I don't think HDV's going to die out as quickly as you think. I think it will be around for quite some time... but within a 2-3 years it will be a strictly consumer format. My dislike of it has nothing to do with brands. My all-time favorite camera before the DVX100 came along was Sony's PD150. I think the HD100U is a pretty great camera in a lot of ways, and it's my dislike of HDV, not JVC, that keeps me from owning one. Besides the pain of editing it, frame drops, artifacting, and all the technical concerns, there's the much bigger issue (to me) that Sony, Canon, and JVC can't seem to get their formats to play nice together, even though they all have the same logo on their cameras. So that's why I hate HDV.

As for the lens on the HD-100U, ask anyone. It's extremely vulnerable to flaring, not terribly sharp, has lots of color problems, and so on. That much was obvious just from seeing a minute of run-and-gun footage on demo. Could you shoot nice footage with it? Sure. But it's got a lot of weaknesses, and the first thing I'd do would be replacing it (thus making the JVC closer to a $9000 camera).
 
OK Steve! As you see, following my own signature, it's not easy the choice, mine at least. But regarding HD100 vs. HVX, it seems to me that the JVC is more run & gun and Pana needs more care regarding lighting and setting. That is, less doc run & gun, as well, not so much indie affordable. And I'm not talking about P2 cost or something similar. But lighting it's not so set easy as it seems. To doc work, for instance. And if not previously prepared, it just gives a videoish look.
 
P2 Cards

P2 Cards

How much HD footage can be fit onto one of these 4gig cards?
I'm guessing that if you're shooting a film, you would have to put
each day's footage onto the computer, and trust you have no hard-drive
problems and or back you stuff up.

Thanks
 
Steve Scott said:
How much HD footage can be fit onto one of these 4gig cards?
I'm guessing that if you're shooting a film, you would have to put
each day's footage onto the computer, and trust you have no hard-drive
problems and or back you stuff up.
Click to expand...

This is the bummer with P2, You'll need to figure out an archiving system for your footage. A 4GB card will hold ~4min 1080i/p or ~10min of 720p24.
 
I currently own the dvx100. That camera has been good to me and my business. It still yields results that stun my clients. With that in mind, I was anxious about the hvx200 and the potential it yielded. I recently rented the hvx200 and shot a music video with it. I did the whole p2 card recording, 24p etc. Let me say that the workflow sucked. I really hated it. This whole thing about comparing p2 cards to how film mags are changed and the time needed to do the whole procedure seemed to justify the workflow. But guess what? Changing film mags every time the 4 minutes are used up sucks too. Why would anyone want to artificially reproduce the process and BRAG about it. I would rather NOT duplicate the experience.

Another issue I had on the post end was editing the footage. This was a nightmare. Many of the filters in my favorites bin would not work with p2HD footage. THEN, when I tried applying credits on my music video, it would show up extremely pixelated in DVDSP3. So, I had to export out as a DV NTSC file just to be able to retain my credits, defeating the purpose of shooting in HD. (By the way, FCP really needs to step up to the plate when it comes to editing HD natively. There is no solid workflow (at least that I know of))

As an avid DVX100 fan, I must admit that the hvx200 did not deliver for me. On top of that, they still have that fixed lens that bothers me. They tought the whole p2-film mag similarity, but disregard what really matters in film, which is exchangeable front end optics. For now the JVC seems to be the best camera for my film needs. This whole argument over HDV vs. P2 IMHO is really not important. We all can attest to what any decent camera can do in the hands of a talented operator.

Another thing that jerks my chain is when people say that the JVC lens is crappy. How do they know? Were they at the 4 camera shootout when JVC performed exceptionally well against the HVX200 and even the f900 using it's stock lens?? We should all admit that don't know a "crappy" lens when we see one. It is that subjective of a topic. We would not be able to tell the difference between something shot on HDV and P2. We could not tell if it was a Leica, Fujinon or Nikon lens. The differences would be so minor. We COULD tell if the operator did not light, focus or properly manage it's internal camera settings.

Here are some facts regarding the JVC:

It performed extremely well in a 4 camera HD shootout. (Hosted by Barry Green himself and others. The link is somewhere in here)
Interchangeable lense
TRUE HD (Panasonic is NOT true hd. Yes, I said it)
TRUE 24p Capture
Great price point
Rodney Charters endorsed it and used it on the set of 24. (DP for 24)
HD on mini DV tape!!! This alone will save you time on the set transferring your footage at a snails pace to a hard drive. This will also save you $$$ compared to expensive p2 cards.
Don't want to store on Mini DV? Shoot directly to a hard drive.
Easier editing workflow

True, the JVC doesn't support as many formats as the hvx200, but I personally don't need all that. As a film maker, all that matters to me is true 24p capture with cine gamma in true HD with the option of interchangeable lenses and existing workflow. The JVC delivers. Period.
 
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Darkone, I'm sure that you are already expecting remarks concerning your last post. I'm going to just point out some situations which I do and do not agree.

I agree with the fact that, currently, P2 card prices are high and the available recording time is low. FIlm like workflow is not an advantage. It should be up to us to decide when to stop the camera, and not the camera due to technical limitations. One could argue that having a handfull of 8gb p2 cards would make this possible, but this would take the camera to a whole diferent market, where cameras that are a lot better exist.

However, I have to disagree in one main point: Editing. I don't know what you are doing wrong, but I already made 2 P2 TV comercials mastered in HD that look absolutely gorgeous. Editing was fast, responsive and realtime, With a Dual g5 2.7 Mac with two External Firewire 800 Lacie drives (500gb). No long rendering, realtime preview, with color correction, Motion graphics, 3 dvcprohd streams. With HDV, I can't get this performance. Also, I can edit DVCPROHD with my 1 and a half years old Powerbook g4 1.67ghzs. This certainly is not possible with HDV.

Picture quality wise, this is an HD DVX and a lot more. The DV footage shot with this camera looks much superior to what I got with my DVX100a. This is saying much.

I have a very limited experience with the JVC (seen it in a tradeshow and handled it with a mini 35), but, from what I saw, it was nowhere near to what I'm achieving with the HVX. Now maybe If I had a JVC I could pull out similar quality footage, but the Editing workflow and what HDV requires sure meant a way bigger investment than what I have already invested in the HVX (plus harddrives).

I'm waiting for Mac Blue ray drives. Archiving in discs could prove troublesome, but I believe its a lot more of a problem of where you STORE your archives and not the medium. If the footage is stored on a disk in a humidity free, locked, protected from termites , dust, or any other form of exterior degradation interference place, than it certainly would survive the hands of time.
 
HDkilledFILM. said:
I'd wait untill the HVX200 gets into the market and gets tested side by side with your other options. I agree with Jan about the HD being there when you need it and the P2 cards will come down in cost soon so.............. oh and HDV is going to be the shortest lived format in video history. frame drops. So thats something to factor in. FCP 6 is going to kill with the HVX as well. If it's up to me buy either the HVX or a 100b if you don't have the cash for the HVX, they are going for cheap and they kick butt. But what do I know.
Click to expand...

No frame drops. Sorry, but I guess you've never used an HDV camera. I've used every prosumer HDV camera (probably 60+ hours on each) and have NEVER EVER EVER experienced a single frame drop. Sorry pal.
 
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