Merlin or Glidecam 2000 pro?

jgastelb

jgastelb

Well-known member
Ok. So I will be in the market, hopefully soon, to buy a steadicam device. I know the Merlin is a lot more expensive than the Glidecam 2000 pro...

However, if money wasn't an issue which would you get? I would like to know from people who have handled one or both but any comments/info would be greatly appreciated. I know that both have pros and cons. I have heard that balancing the glidecam takes a lot of time and practice. Which one do you think can be learned quicker and produces better footage? I'll stop there for now.
Jgastelb
 
if money wasnt an issue, i would go for the merlin,


BUt

Me personally i would go with the glidecam, why? Because i know im getting an adapter for it and you have to option of finding an add on piece to elongate the length of the shaft to hold cameras up to... well logically 10 pounds. or at least the same thing that the glidecam 4000 pro can. The only difference between the two is the length of the shaft.

where as the merlin, im pretty sure is stuck at 5 pounds?

but in terms of quality, well tehnically you can get the same quality out of them both. the glidecam 2000 pro took me 3 days to figure out how to balance, but now it doesnt take more than 30 seconds.

the merlin is alot quicker setup and is easier to use to achieve a nice smooth shot, but with practiec, either of them will give the same result if used properly.
 
I have tried the glidecam 4000, had one for a couple of years, had the steadicam junior also. Both a pain in the butt. I bought the steddiepod and haven't looked back. Bought it on a Friday and used it the folllowing day to do an entire shoot in Hollywood on Hollywood blvd and in the Ripley's museum. Works as a steady platform AND a monopod. Priced right also.
http://www.ezprompter.com/products/steddiepod.html
 
I've never tried any Glidecam products, but I'll vouch for the Merlin's excellent quality and results as well as the quick setup time. I've borrowed one on a few occasions, and will be buying one sooner or later!
 
maverickstunts said:
I have tried the glidecam 4000, had one for a couple of years, had the steadicam junior also. Both a pain in the butt. I bought the steddiepod and haven't looked back. Bought it on a Friday and used it the folllowing day to do an entire shoot in Hollywood on Hollywood blvd and in the Ripley's museum. Works as a steady platform AND a monopod. Priced right also.
http://www.ezprompter.com/products/steddiepod.html
Click to expand...


you had the glidecam for years and you still think its a pain in the butt?

i had the glidecam 2000 pro for 3 days, wanted to throw it through my window, but the fourth day i figured it out, now i love it. wouldnt trade it for anything. not even a merlin cause of the weight issue. with the glidecam, yes its harder to balance at first but it will hold heavier stuff if you wantto pack on the wieght with mics, 35mm adapters, yadda yadda,
 
I'll throw in my recommendation for the Merlin.

To touch on the topics discussed in this thread: It's much lighter, allowing you to shoot longer & smoother. The GC holds more, but that doesn't mean you can. Merlin is also much more compact, especially folded, it also comes with a built in quick release AND tripod adapter plate (more weight + money to get for the glidecam).

The Steadicam Merlin is designed from the ground up as a handheld stabilizer by the inventor of the original big Steadicam. The Gildecam 4k/2k is a scaled down copy of part of the big rig originally designed to be mounted on a support arm, not to be used handheld.

There is lots of discussion on this topic, please run a search for "Merlin"

- Mikko
 
Thanks a lot for all the helpful info everyone.

One thing that Papa mentioned that brought a point home for me was the added weight if you have a shotgun mic and adapters attached to the camera. I have a letus adapter so this could be an issue. I was thinking though if you had the glidecam and letus all put together how in the world would you be able to pull on the focus without shaking the camera? This may prove to be next to impossible. Something to consider I guess. It does seem like the Merlin may win the easier set up but of course costs more.

Decisions, decisions...
Jgastelb
 
Pulling focus on Steadicam requires a (radio) remote controlled follow focus system. A good low priced unit runs $2000 for teh controls, and another $2000 for the motor. Needless to say, well out of the realm of anyone using a handheld rig to shoot. Asiside from the costs, pulling focus on Steadicam shots is HARD! And most Steadicam shots arn't the type that shallow DOF is a requirement, or even an issue. My recomentation would be to make use of those 1/3" chips for the Steadicam work with the strength they provide.

I'd leave any 35mm adapter off the camera for the Steadicam shots and concentrate on more important things.


As to other weight concerns; The DVX100 will fly on the Merlin with the Shotgun mic and even a screw on filter or two without trouble.

- Mikko
 
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I cant say I have seen a steadicam shot lately that has had a focus pull at all, and for that matter been shot with a shallow depth of field.

I use a letus flip, and I bought the merlin. Never used it with the flip cause basically it wouldnt work. But have used it with filters a shotgun mounted on top plus a wireless reciever on the hotshoe.

Also sorry to disagree Papa but the merlin takes a lot longer than that to get great shots, but with practice a good merlin user will get a better shot than a good glidecam user IMO.
 
I have both the Glidecam 2000 and the Merlin. Both take time to setup and learn to operate well. I don't think one is easier than the other. I do think the Glidecam can handle more weight, but at that point, I rather attach it to a smooth shooter. The Merlin is small, compact, and I like the build quality and materials on the Merlin and the light weight. If money were no object for a handheld, I'd go with the Merlin.
 
PaPa said:
you had the glidecam for years and you still think its a pain in the butt?

Yup, I didn't use it (glidecam) everyday for multiple things and every time I got it back out or changed lenses (had an Xl-1 at the time) it was re-balancing. Out of the box the steddiepod was hands down better. Put the shoe on the camera, put the camera on the "pod", folded the legs down and shoot. I also had a mattebox on, as well as two lavolier mic receivers taped to the upright. Not only shot, but when we had to stop and talk about the next shot, I just set the steddiepod down on the street and talked. It is the best thing that I have ever used for "run and gun".
Click to expand...
 
The Steddiepod, while unique in terms of the whole legs idea, is quite simply a monopod with a grip on it and some weights, and the little leg-bits at the bottom. It doesn't have a gimbal, it doesn't have any way of balancing the camera, and thus, I cannot recommend it as a true stabilizer. Although it may solve a lot of your problems in terms of stability, it just can't isolate itself properly from the operator's body.

As to the Glidecam versus the Merlin, I'd go for the Merlin hands-down. I've never personally used the merlin, but I have a few reasons why I'd trust it much more than the Glidecam. The Glidecam IS a wrist killer. I've used plenty of rigs like it. I'm no small guy, I'm no weakling, and yet I can't pull off a good shot on a Glidecam that lasts more than 4 or 5 minutes. Second of all, let's put Mikko's opinion into context here, that he's a professional Steadicam operator. Third of all, Tiffen engineering is just plain incredible, and Garrett Brown's designing of this rig makes it really shine.

So, yeah, I'd go for the Merlin, but I guess, if you were truly strapped for cash, you could make do with the Glidecam, but it will "cost you" later on in terms of weight, operating time, fatigue, and wrist pain.
 
Thanks guys! How long of a setup time does the Merlin take? Realistically speaking how much practice time do you think the Merlin will take to get good at?
Jgastelb
 
Depedning on how mcuh time you put into it, normally a week or two.
If you really go at it non stop (not recomended) you could have it down in 3-4days.
Some people get the nack right away, others take longer (just like riding a bike).
Balancing is described as the hardest part, and it's sure the most frustrating. But after a few hours when that's done the next step is learning how to move with the rig and aim the camera smoothly, this takes a little more time to become fully comfterble. At this point the rig is in balance and within your control and you can begin to shoot. From there on it's just refining your shots and technique, that part that never stops.

- Mikko
 
tomthemacman said:
The Steddiepod, while unique in terms of the whole legs idea, is quite simply a monopod with a grip on it and some weights, and the little leg-bits at the bottom. It doesn't have a gimbal, it doesn't have any way of balancing the camera, and thus, I cannot recommend it as a true stabilizer. Although it may solve a lot of your problems in terms of stability, it just can't isolate itself properly from the operator's body.
Click to expand...


was about to post that exact thing. Thanks :)

the thing about the glidecam being a wrist killer, wel ive never experienced that cause i bought mine with a arm brace, so no pain so far. but I DEFINATELY see how it oculd be, yes, its heavy, but its a steadicam, its not something your supposed to hold onto all day or even cary around.

If your getting either a merlin or a glidecam on the basis that you will be holding this thing for more than a few minutes at a time, for reasons other than filming scenes, then i would requestion the reason why your even getting one in the first place, dont get one just for the hell of it, its a usefull tool, and when all things concidered, this is what i come up with

Glidecam 2000 pro is:

Less expensive
Just as performant ( after practice )
can hold more weight thanks to the adjustable shaft length ( adding pieces if you want )
quite heavy after long terms use.

Merlin is:

Better engineered
Just as performant ( easier at the get go )
Can hold less ewight before it looses its job ( mailnly focusing on adapters here )
Not as heavy for long term use


But are you gettign a steadicam in the expectation of doing shots that are 5 minutes long? No one does. The only time i have ever done that was because i was playing around with it in my hous taking random footage, or my trip to prague ( which by the way was 7 days long, i shot 5 hours of footage, ALL on my glidecam, no problems with my arm, but thats only cause of the brace, it would have fallen off otherwise)

So dont judge your decision based on how long you can hold it before your tired,,, cause its primary function is for camera movement for film, which on average, shots or even entire scenes dont last for more than af ew minutes.

Dont worry bout the weight

worry about the preformance, The price, and which one you would rather go with

If someone gave me a merlin, i would definately try it out, but i really like the feel of the glidecam, i like that its heavy, it feels sturdy and like a real weight displacement system, as the merlin is but... just saying.
 
Yeah, I completely understand where you're coming from. The amount of money you saved by going Glidecam is pretty big, and if you're willing to live with the Glidecam's little inconsistencies here and there (Simpler gimbal, especially on some older models, which can cause problems, and also, the topstage on the GC is just terrible) it can do fine. For me, someone looking at this as someone who's been engineering and designing my own rigs for a couple of years now, everything from Glidecam clones, to my current rig, an adaptation of the Steadicam Flyer, if you're looking for a rig to last you a good amount of time and be a wonderful preformer, I'd go for the Merlin.

Now, I hate doing point-counterpoint things as they always get me into a flame war, but I feel like doing a little bit of that here, but remember, it's a professional discussion, not a personal attack. (Just kinda a boilerplate statement at this point.)

Yeah, as to your comments, the Merlin, really, so long as you're shooting with one of the cameras in the range of it, you should be fine in terms of how much weight it can hold. You definetly should not be shooting with any kind of 35mm adaptor on a Steadicam, even on the kind of rigs I'm using and machining now. That's a given, just because of the focus issues.

Also, although the Merlin seems like it'll do the exact same job as the Glidecam in most situations, and it will, it can make more stabile shots in places where I'd be scared out of my wits to take a Glidecam. The Merlin's lightness and size make it perfect for taking into places almost completely unnoticed, and it would allow you to shoot a perfectly good scene on a busy New York street, on which taking the Glidecam is just asking to get it knocked all over the place. Again, it's the question of whether or not that kind of flexibility is worth it to you.

As to longer shots, and the weight issue, well, Steadicam shots don't have to be short. I shot a good hour with a simple full rig, in one straight run. I'm sure if I had had a Merlin (my camera weighed around 2 pounds) I could have shot for just that same amount of time. The Merlin is just like adding a small accessory onto the camera, whereas the Glidecam could theoretically double the weight of the camera. The weight issue just really can be a dealbreaker. Maybe it isn't for everybody, but it would be for me.

But yes, if you have a choice, nothing, or a Glidecam, I'd say go for the Glidecam, but a Merlin is a lot easier to work with, just because of the weight, and I've heard nothing but praise for it.

Alright, now I'm starting to get a little out of my territory here, seeing as I haven't directly used either of these rigs, just basing it on the Merlin's reviews and comments from people I know, and on the Glidecam side, having operated (and designed) a rig a hecuva lot like it. Hey, if the Glidecam will do the job for you, and it's the money you had to spend, great. Enjoy the rig, and happy flying. But, if you've got the money, go for the lighter, sleeker, smaller rig, because it'll do a great job.
 
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Dude i have to say one thing to you.

Cheers :) love the fact that you dont mind going in depth about something. Because really when you think about it, were oinly unvailing information that can help ourselves understand it, and others.

Its like those times, not sure if youve had em, where you start talking about something you know pretty well, you end up getting into a really in depth discussion about it and it ends up taking you places making you self teach yourself things, well the same thign comes out of this.


Curious where you would be scared to take a glidecam where you would rather take a merlin?

As for the weight issue. As I said, I visisted prague for 7 days, shooting for about 5 hours footage over the 7 days. We would leave regularly at 11 and come back at 6, so i would shoot for anywhere between 2 or 3 hours at a time, taking a break between each site ( i wanted to be able to cut this in editing like no bodies business) which would generally last about 45 minutes to an hour.

The arm brace made it effortless, i ended up using my mid and upper arm instead of my wrist to support the brace because of its displacement.

And how is it poorly constructed.

They have designed thta can balance itself perfectly in a custom fashion. First you have the gimbal which is clean as a whistle, that baby is smooth like a babies bum. It connects to the base plate via a tube that can easily be replaced if weight were to be added to the camera ( adapters and such ) and you can balance the front to back customly, which by the way works perfectly when you place 3 weights on each side tangeant to the three edges.

It took me 3 or 4 days after i received it through the mail to figure out how the HELL to balance the thing, i swear, even after watching the video agian and again, i watned to throw the ****ing thing through my wall.

figured it out the next day and now it takes me anywhere from 20 seconds to a minute to set up as long as a flat surface is readily available, if not, maybe 3 minutes.
 
Yeah, I love having discussions about this stuff. It really does make you think, and make you put some pieces together.

Where would I be scared to take a Glidecam that I would take a Merlin? Anywhere crowded. That nice big baseplate is just waiting to get kicked or knocked into.

The weight issue isn't a dealbreaker for some people, I'll give that to you. The wrist strain is what got me. I mean, yeah, you can probably get by with a light Glidecam setup, but hey, the Merlin is just plain lighter. I'm quite glad to hear about your long shooting on the Glidecam. It can be done, but I just feel like it'd be easier on the Merlin because the gimbal handle is designed with the weight over it, instead of to the front of it, which might help, but, in this case, for someone worried about that, find a dealer to try both out.

Arm braces are really great ideas. If someone's going for the Glidecam, I'd say that they might want to pick one up. It's biggest help is that it stiffens up the wrist.

The poor construction for me is on the topstage. I've tried balancing cameras using their system of just sliding something, and let me tell you, until you've tried balancing something the Steadicam way, with a real topstage, you haven't seen the light. The difference is amazing. The gimbal problems were that earlier versions of the rig, which someone might encounter when buying used, didn't have a machined gimbal yoke, just a bent one, and also apparently some have problems with Dynamic Balance, neither of which you have to worry about on the Merlin.

Yeah, balancing a rig is hell the first time. Even most people with the Steadicam style stage say that, but it is easier with the threaded adjustments.

Really, I'm very glad to hear about your success with the Glidecam. It's far from a bad product, and it will get the job done. If money were no option, I'd go for the Merlin, for all of the reasons detailed in this thread, but it's just almost a different class of rig. To me, it's like the Glidecam Gold versus Steadicam full rig debate. Really, it's operator preference and budget. I mean, the Glidecam will get the shot. The Steadicam will give you creature comforts, AND get the shot. That's what it comes down to in my mind.

And, in the end, it all comes down to the operator. Hey, I know that when Garrett Brown picks up a Steadicam JR, he can create shots lightyears beyond what I could do with a brand new Steadicam Ultra2. So, hey, all the more power to you, getting great shots with the Glidecam.
 
ahh here is something i never thought about, the gimbal is ontop of your hand on the merlin, interesting, yeah that would cause alot less strain.

oh and about the crowded issue, having problems shooting because of the base plate.
Well, the merlin's body sticks out a good foot infront of hte user, maybe a foot and half, so both of them have their disabilities in tight spaces, but i would say more so the merlin. The glidecams base plate is smaller than my dvx up top. where as the merlin protrudes me thinks a foot and ahlaf, again not sure, but tel me if it does.
 
The Merilin's weight limit: there's an adapter plate that mounts at the bottom, instead of or in addition to the standard weights. This can be used for a wireless receiver, ext HD, etc. If you do this, it counterbalances whatever weight you put at the top.
 
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