Lighting Night Exteriors -- Need Help!

T

TWJP

Active member
Hey Guys...

I'm looking for the best bang-for-your-buck high wattage light I can find to be my primary source of light. I have several 500W-1,000watt lights I can use for filling in gaps, but I'd love to have that one big monster for coverage durring night shoots.

By searching the older topics, I came across some Lee HMI's that are 1.2K for $1200 each. http://www.visualproducts.com/storeProductDetail03.asp?productID=798&Cat=7&Cat2=68&Cat3=70#bigPic

Reading threads here, I saw that HMI's get even more light per watt then tungsten, so I'd be getting a lot more then 1,200W from these (compared to what I'm used to with Tungsten). Is that right?

Are there any better deals/more effective options out there in that price range (I'd have to keep it to $1,500 or less)

Sorry for the long explainations... I'm just really looking for a great high-power light that I can count on.. something that's substansially more powerfull then a 1,000 watt tungsten.

I'd be thinking of running it off a generator such as one of these: (6,500 Watt/120 Volt) http://www.duropower.com/item.asp?PID=26&FID=1&level=0

One last thing... Will the HMI listed above work with normal home electrical outlets?

Thanks guys, many thanks!!!
 
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the 1,200 watt lamp if it uses 1,200 watts that means it's sucking 10amps of power to run. the normal house socket is 15amps...you might think you have 5amps to play with, but you need to consider the breaker and how many other sockets are in use at the same time. the breaker though rated for 20amps will "throw" at 16amps...your house socket is being shared with not only the other sockets in the room, but possibly more than one other room. you could be looking at two or three rooms sharing a line. so if your light is using 10amps then you need to be sure that whatever other rooms are on that line that nothing is on or running. at least 6 amps worth.

formula to keep in mind...watts/volts = amps (where voltage is 120 volts)

if you have anything real powerful you either need to use a generator or have a licensed electrician and permission of the homeowner or location to tie into their powerlines.

thanks to earache for the correction...i'm not an electrician...i just play one on TV :)
 
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novelt said:
formula to keep in mind...watts/power = amps (where power is 120 volts)
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watts / (120 volts) = amps gives you the right calculation, but power is how many watts you have, not volts.
 
HMI's will put about 4x the amount of light to their tungsten counterparts at the same wattage. The 1200 HMI ballast will be plugged for 3-wire household edison plugs.
 
Yeah... I know about the general watts/volts/amps conversions... I was hoping more for help with other lighting options. I've had a lot of experience blowing fuses with too many lights until I googled it online and found the equation to work with. :)

Bcheong, 3-wire household edison plugs? Are those the normal grounded 3-prong plugs?
 
In terms of effecient hard light source HMI's are pretty much it. I've heard things about Xenon lights but I don't know too much about powering options, effeciency, etc.

Arri's new ceramic technology looks interesting too albeit expensive. Their 250w Ceramic (tungsten) puts out as much as a 1K.
 
Will the HMI listed above work with normal home electrical outlets?
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that looks like you're asking if the light will work on a normal household outlet. :)

if i would've known you were asking about plugs then...by the way there are fluorescents available that might throw more light and use less power then what you are looking at. just a thought.
 
Your original thread.."Lighting exteriors at night"....If you are using the HMi's at night.... You'd need to gell them with CTO..It wouldn't knock too much of their effective use down, like using ctb on a tungsten light, but just wanted to remind you that it would affect their output slightly. You could get a 2k tungsten light, but plug it in on the other side of the house. Or rent one of those construction lights that have 3-4 lamps on them, that have their own generator..You'll need a trailer hitch to pull it to your location. I think they are 2k for each lamp. Not quiet though... A putt-putt genny in the 5 -7k size would fire up a rented 5k, or 2 -2k's. Just ask the rental house to provide you with a Bates to Edison adapter...(Edison- typical household outlet 3pin plug) if you use the 5k.
 
Filmat11, I will admit that I'm a bit confused by that first statement about CTO'ing the hmi's. While I've never worked with one first hand, my understanding is that they run at a 5400k-5600k color temp.... which is pretty much white, maybe with a tint of blue. If I were to gel an HMI for night shooting... if anything wouldn't I CTB it to make it a shade more blue?

Novlt... yeah, I did ask that question... I just meant the overriding purpose of the thread was to get advice on shooting at night with HMI's or other options. Sorry. :)
 
Just wrapped a 4 night shoot using two 1200 watt HMI's. No idea why you would want to gel them. Kept the HVX on a 3200k preset and the HMI's looked great on-screen as night/moon light.
 
Owen... did those HMI's provide plenty of coverage for you? Do you think I can get away with just one 1200watt HMI with a few 500w-1,000w tungstens for highlights? I'll probably be using a DVX.

You wouldn't happen to have any screen caps from that shoot would you?
 
Hey,

I actually bought the Lee 1200 and 575 HMI from VP. They are really great, but a little finicky sometimes, like all HMI's.

I haven't used them for a night EXT, but I will be using them for some day EXT for fill and kick.

The 575w spotted in is great for large INT. The 1200 (Fresnel) would be well suited for night EXT, nothing too large though. If you can grab a 1200w single ended PAR and you have the best weapon out there.

I plug both the 575/1200 into the house outlet with no problems. Make sure that you are using grounded plugs and that the ballast reads with correct polarity. I was using the 1200 on a ground-lifted outlet and I'm pretty sure thats what killed the bulb.

You generator should be crystal synched or it will screw up the electronics, even though the electronic ballast should help.

Check out the Lee HMI's in action in my Production Journal.
http://www.mattworkman.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=17

1000w Tungstens with full CTB will do absolutly nothing for wide shots. They could fill or kick maybe on a close up.

:dankk2:
 
filmat11 said:
....If you are using the HMi's at night.... You'd need to gell them with CTO..It wouldn't knock too much of their effective use down, like using ctb on a tungsten light, but just wanted to remind you that it would affect their output slightly.
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TJWP-- filmat isn't necessarily true there. Whatever light you white balance to, be it the HMI or a tungsten, will appears as white light on video. Altugh, as already mentioned, you'll probably want a hint of blue in your light for that faux-hollywood-moonlight look. Depending on what camera you're using, you can get that white balance by dialing in a number lower than what the lights are... like 4K maybe.... cause if you WB for 3200 it'll probably seem too blue. Or you could use a "cool card" to auto-white balance. Which would be a card with a slight bit of orange in it... when the camera tries to balance that to white, it basically artificially overcompensates to blue.

Then if you mix in tungsten they'll either look very orange, or you could use a 1/2 CTB gel or something to get them a little closer to your 'moon' light. Just keep in mind that HMI are already more efficient than tungsten, so a gelled tungsten is going to have a hard time competing with the HMI. So they'd probably only be good as gentle fills or slight accent lights (which is good b/c that's exactly what you want for the faux night).
 
Sorry guys.... about the cto'ing the HMI's. I was tired and wasn't thinking about creating the night look of "Blue" light. I was thinking that his question had to do with which light was brighter, ... a 1200 HMI par or another light. I was thinking ( stupidly) that he just wanted a brighter light to match his tungsten... My comment about the CTO was to match his other lights....Just a mistake.
 
No worries filmat11-- there are plenty of people here willing to pounce on you if you make the slightest typo. ;)

escozooz-- Awesome production blog. Very interesting stuff. Those of you who haven't taken a peek at his link, check it out.
 
Escozooz mentioned that the generator needs to be crystal synched. I've never had experience with pro genny's for film, so this is the first time I've heard of CS'd generators. Of course, I know of CS'ing for audio , but not the electrical end of things.

Could anyone elaborate on it for me? Is a crystal synched genny absolutely needed for HMI lights?
 
Hmm never heard the word Altugh? "Altugh, as already mentioned, you'll probably want a hint of blue in your light for that faux-hollywood-moonlight look.

Checkmate Baby.. Pounce Pounce
 
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