Should I shoot Music Video in 24p or 24pa?

S

stan_the_man

Member
hey guys, about to shoot my 2nd music video (first was 24p) and am wondering if there is a benefit to shooting 24pa? My first priority is to have it look a good as it can on dvd since chances are it won't go anywhere else. I don't really understand all the talk of 24p dvds and such, I'm using FCP 4.5 and I burn dvds with Toast 6.
Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
yeah I would like to know as well. I'm new to it all and find it hard to understand the difference..
 
What is the difference and significance of editing in a 24P timeline vs 60i timeline?
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One of the most important question asked lately. Hopefully it will solve the confusion among 24p and 24pA users. Answer from Graeme Nattress:
....once you have your finished edit at 23.98fps, you can make a 24p DVD, which will allow you to compress your MPEG2 less than if you were making a normal 29.97fps NTSC DVD, and hence attain higher picture quality. Similarly, if you’re making a web movie, you will find it easier to get a higher quality result from 23.98fps media than normal NTSC media. 23.98fps movies are also easier to take out to film that 29.97fps movies.
If you are editing in a 23.98fps timeline, Final Cut Pro will add pulldown on the fly, over Firewire, so that you can see your movie on a normal NTSC monitor.
you can read the rest here:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/24p_in_FCP_nattress.html
 
when he refers to a "24P dvd" he is meaning applying pulldown on the dvd render to make it 60i but 23.976P internally correct?
 
Correct. DVDs are naturally 60i, but the 24p DVD process applies some flags to the encoded stream so that some DVD players (those that do 2:3 pulldown) recognize and apply pulldown removal automatically...
 
volcano said:
Correct. DVDs are naturally 60i, but the 24p DVD process applies some flags to the encoded stream so that some DVD players (those that do 2:3 pulldown) recognize and apply pulldown removal automatically...
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gothca, thats good news, because it turns out for once i have been doing something right. haha
 
What if your audience doesn't have one of them new-fangled 24pdvd players?
 
What if your audience doesn't have one of them new-fangled 24pdvd players?
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Well you are renting DVD movies, right, ever had a problem? It is just like having a progressive dvd player, if you have one that 3:2 pulldown, you'll see lesser jerk especially during those big pans etc...
 
>Every DVD player plays 24p DVDs. They always have.


! That's cool, I thought it was a feature of higher-end or newer DVD players... So any DVD player will do a 3:2 pull down and output to 60i? I stand corrected...
 
volcano said:
Correct. DVDs are naturally 60i, but the 24p DVD process applies some flags to the encoded stream so that some DVD players (those that do 2:3 pulldown) recognize and apply pulldown removal automatically...
Click to expand...

There is so much confusion over this issue it would be great if Barry Green et al could post a sticky to clarify this issue once and for all.

DVDs are naturally NOTHING. There is nothing on a DVD apart from what it is told. Data, Video etc. THE OUTPUT footage has flags which tells the DVD player how to treat the video signal.

So what then? For a start both modes of 24p and 24pa are progressive and editing both will mean you select (depending on your NLE) NO FIELDS - PROGRESSIVE or just NO FIELDS. Regardless if you use a 29.97 timeline or a 23.98 timeline. If you do not do this your footage will be INTERLACED incorrectly by default.

The only footage you need to edit on a 29.97 interlaced timeline is 60i.

OK so your original question was:

What is the difference and significance of editing in a 24P timeline vs 60i timeline?
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1/ ALREADY MENTIONED: EDIT 24PA ON A 24P Progressive TIMELINE: Question for you: Does FCP 4.5 have a 24p timeline option?

2/EDIT 24P ON A 29.97 PROGESSIVE TIMELINE.

3/EDITING 24P ON A 60I TIMELINE (A 29.97 INTERLACED TIMELINE) WILL GIVE YOU INTERLACING UP TO YOUR CAKEHOLE.
 
OK, so what about capturing the 24pa footage? Do some NLE's have an option to capture in 24p or is it ok to capture in 29.97 and still edit on the 24fps timeline? Can you only capture in 29.97?
 
DVDs are naturally NOTHING
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I was referring to making a DVD from a 29.97 timeline (shot in 60i mode)...
What the article is saying is: If you export a 24p sequence to compressor in order to make a MPEG2 compression, compressor is smart enough to recognize the sequence is 24, so compressor flags some frames.
The only footage you need to edit on a 29.97 interlaced timeline is 60i.
Click to expand...
What you are saying is not only wrong, but opposes the whole purpose of shooting 24p non-advanced.
3/EDITING 24P ON A 60I TIMELINE (A 29.97 INTERLACED TIMELINE) WILL GIVE YOU INTERLACING UP TO YOUR CAKEHOLE
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There is nothing bad about it... I edited many 24p footage on 60i and it looked pretty nice...
 
OK . . .

(Talking about NTSC here . . . )

First principles:

DVDs are encoded as MPEG-2.

MPEG-2 supports various framerates, but DVD supports only two -- 23.976p (24p) and 59.94i (60i).

Now . . .

You can encode MPEG-2 files for DVD using either framerate.

If you encode a 24p file, when it's burned to DVD, it will include flags for the DVD PLAYER to add pulldown for display on a standard TV.

Different editing applications/DVD authoring applications handle it differently; some NLEs will have an option to include the flags in the MPEG file you export, so the DVD authoring program will see them and keep them. With other software, the DVD authoring app will take the 24p file and then include the flags when it authors/burns the DVD.

SOME authoring software will accept a DV file of 24p with pulldown AS DV (which is always 60i), remove the pulldown, and make a 24p MPEG with pulldown flags when it authors the DVD.

IF you export a 60i MPEG from your NLE, almost NO DVD authoring software will be able to make a 24p DVD out of it. SO, if you're wanting to make a 24p DVD, you can't do it that way. You can only make a 60i DVD with a 60i file.

Which means if you're going to export an MPEG from your NLE, you must export a 24p MPEG, which means if you're using any software other than Vegas, you must be editing on a 24p timeline.

If you're going to edit on a 24p timeline, shoot 24pA.

As for editing 24p on a 60i timeline and making a 60i DVD out of it, if you're going to do that, shoot standard 24p.

But if you have the capability of editing 24p and making a 24p DVD, then DO IT. I'll go on record as saying, right now, if you CAN make a 24p DVD, then it's just plain batty not to.

24p files take up 20% less space on a DVD then do 60i files of the same length. And, as others have pointed out, if you watch a 60i DVD with a progressive-scan player on a progessive display, you WILL see interlace artifacts. If you watch a 24p DVD with a progressive-scan player on a progressive display, you will NOT see interlace artifacts. It makes a big difference.

And, bringing it full circle, any DVD player will be able to play the 24p DVD on a standard TV, adding pulldown on the fly.

Simply put, interlace sucks. Get out of it as early as you can.
 
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