Looking for some advice on what to get... How would you do it?

Q

quarrel84@hotmail.com

Member
Hey all, I am new here, but I was told this is a great place for info. Here is my circumstance: Recently I came in to a bit of cash, and I wish to use it to get into digital compositing/visual effects, as well as further into editing, cinematography, and videographer work. Here is what I currently have equipment wise:


DVX
XL2 w/ stock 20x Lens
Mac G5 System w/ FCP (and soon am adding Shake)
Mediocre quality shoulder brace
Mediocre non fluid Tripod
Stock mic for cameras


I was wondering what I should work on adding to my equipment with the money I have available ($10,000), and also in what priority. Someone I talked to has given me some general equipment ideas, and I would very much appreciate if you guys could elaborate on them. I will list them here, and please guys, feel free to add to my list if you feel I am missing something. Also, keep in mind, I do freelance jobs (shooting and editing parties, concerts, weddings, etc), as well as shorts for now, but prospectively thinking about a feature down the road. Here we are:


1) Production Monitor for FCP and Shake.
2) Blackmagic or AJA Kona for output to Monitor.
3) Anything else associated with outputting to a production Monitor.
4) Filters.
5) Steadicam.
6) Tripod.
7) Lighting equipment for freelance and fiction film work.
8) Sound equipment for freelance and fiction film work.
9) Anything I missed...

I appreciate any comments and help anyone may offer me, thanks sincerely to all in advance.
 
With $10,000, as a freelancer, it would probably be cool to get something like a steadicam merlin (heard they're great), a fluid head tripod, a good mic, and some real portable lights. That should leave you with a few thousand left over for a monitor or something.
 
If I had 10G's, I'd get the Andromeda implant in my DVX, an M2 HD Kit, and some decent Cine Lenses. Andromeda looks so clean, and with the adapter, it would be so sick.
 
Hey Quarrel,
I think you should keep your money until you find out what you are gonna be really doing, this way your 1000$ steadicam wont be dusted when you are jailed in your editing room rendering 3D animations, or your Kona card sitting untouched in your editing system when all you are doing is filming events... It is not good to have it all if it is not used...Find out what you will be usung most, what can be rented, what is vitally important? You got a site?Advertising? Paying others etc... Keep your money until chaos shapes the way you paying the bills...
 
Thanks all. I am working on getting this equipment so I can learn how to operate myself and then have them handy for production later on... I prefer to own things myself rather than rent them and go through the chaos of that. (several bad experiences, although i've heard of plenty good experiences, just not my style, I guess)

Basicaly, I will be working in a very small crew for my freelance work and shorts, so eaach of us will be multi tasking like crazy. (I think this is the only way to get anything done anymore imho) I am going to be doing the cinematography, editing, compositing, and other post work.

After some more research and helpful guys on this forum I have reached a rough estimate so far:

1) Production monitor - Sony PVM 20" 600 Lines - $950
2) Blackmagic Decklink PCIe - $900
3) Filters, ND, UV, Polar - $250
4) Steadicam, DV RigXL, Steady Extreme - $900
5) Lighting, Lowell Kit - $1100
6) Wireless Sound Mic Set - $600
7) Tripod, Bogen 503 - $500
8) Lense, Century Optics - $800
9) Have I missed anything? - $?

Comes to about $6,100, so when I add shake and shipping and tax, should break in about 10. Thought I would post this incase anyone else was interested in some estimates. Thanks to all who helped me in PMs and on the forum. Glad I could join you all. [

(Please feel free to post criticisms, comments, ideas, suggestions, etc about this list, it is only a rough draft anyway.)
 
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Realistically, when producing you cant avoid renting. You can minimize it, but every job wil require some specific more items you will rent anyway, For example you forgot :
-Shotgun mike - vital if you are doing shorts(films). You can purchase one, but the fact will remain that you will also need: (Boompole+adapter+long xlr cables and a field mixer so a soundguy can take care of the levels) Of course you can just get the mike and use it as a on camera mike...
-Field monitor, you dont expect to carry your 20'' monitor from location to location. 9'' to 14'' is the most practical. A direct rental item...
-$1100 light kit and I guarentee you'll be renting a lot more...C stands, arms, flags, nets, sand bags, scrims, diffusers, reflectors, clamps, other grip items....
-Battery powered On camera lights.VIDLEDS are great. They save your life when no other light options are available...
-A deck(VTR), or a 2nd cheap camcorder to capture... Do not use your DVX to capture.
-Zoom/focus controller. Way more important than an $800 anamorphic lense...
-What about a laptop that you can capture directly, or a hard disk recorder that will save you from capturing hell...
Dont get me wrong, owning equipment is good, you can get more familiar with its functions, but just like in computers, all these items we are talking about also get updated, get cheaper, more functional etc...
You own some (VITAL to what you are really doing) and rent others (SECONDARY to your expertise) It really ends up in this question: What are you gonna be doing? (NOT what do you want to do)....
Well well...
 
Think about this, the stuff you're going to use on EVERY job, that should be a purchase, the stuff that varies from job to job, that is often better RENTED. Also take into consideration stuff that lasts a long time (5 years or more) vs. stuff that goes obsolete. PVM series CRT monitor, good long term investment you'll use on every project. Sound equipment, that lasts a long time. For example, I have a basic no-nonsense Bogen/Manfrotto tripod I use for "the little jobs" but rent a Sachtler Video 18 with those nice carbon-fibre legs or a dolly or a jib arm for the "big jobs." This frees up cash flow for the stuff that's really important.

A mix of rentals and purchases is the approach many producers take, it's all about optimizing what you can deliver to clients given your resources. Renting is about extending your technological capability on an as-needed basis. Another example, I have a basic sound kit (mixer, wired mics, cables, etc), and rent wireless mics when I need it. I use the basic kit on every shoot, but only once in a while need wireless. And if you're running a business it's often better to rent (immediately comes off the bottom line as an expense) vs. equipment purchases that you are required to amortize (deduction of capital expenses over a specific period of time) rather than claim as an expense within a single tax year.
 
nothing posted so far is going to help with compositing/digital effects...

Pass on shake, get After Effects...

Spend some money on AE training and attend Gnomon out in LA. Later
this summer, attend Siggraph. You'll make contacts AND learn.

Right now, go get Ron Brinkman's book - The Art and Science of Digital
Compositing.

Dont get hardware/software focused... learn the techniques and make the
contacts.
 
Greggl said:
[...] Pass on shake, get After Effects... [...]
Click to expand...
Both After Effects and Shake are excellent tools and many people who do effects and compositing use both. Some people say the data flow model of Shake is superior for complex composites with many layers each with it's own color correction and filters, while other people argue that After Effects layers/timeline interface is more intuitive. I've driven both but i'm not a compositor by any stretch of the imagination, however, I've worked on both video and film resolution projects that have used either or both Shake and After Effects and I can tell you from the perspective of a neutral observer they are both good tools, each with it's strengths in particular areas. Anyone who dismisses Shake outright does not understand the tool nor the many effects projects and movies that have used it.
 
Hehe.. I'm a professional film compositor :)

Shake is poorly suited to motion graphics work and with its price tag and
for a guy just getting started and working in a project studio capacity,
its serious overkill.

Just from a plug-in standpoint, AE is a gem. Its extremely extendable
and can handle just about everything and most of the entry level work
out there is going to be AE related if you did want to pick up freelance
jobs.
 
Wow, thanks for the great help guys.

I will re-evaluate my list much before I actualy go out and start piecing things together, hehe, this is exactly what I hoped I would find here. If only things were more simple and you could just own whatever you needed and didn't have to schedule and rent and meticulously plan and scrutinize every step. For better or worse this is not the reality, it seems. Thanks again all.
 
Greggl said:
Shake is poorly suited to motion graphics work [...]
Click to expand...
That I would agree with, but that is no reason to slam Shake, which on the other hand excels as a compositing and visual effects tool and has been used on more feature films and commercials than anyone can count.

Just as After Effects is a better tool for motion graphics, Shake is a better tool for complex compositing tasks. My comments are not out of left field, In the past I've been involved in film-resolution projects, for some we used After Effects and for others Chalice (a tool with a data-flow model similar to Shake, Apple acquired Silicon Grail, maker of Chalice, shortly after they aquired Nothing Real, the developer of Shake).

And for ease of use for people who are not full-time motion graphics specialists, Motion lets you crank out some impressive motion graphics, though I'd never claim that Motion is as comprehensive or versatile as After Effects. Given Motion is bundled with Final Cut Studio, it's a nice way to get started, though for pro work, I agree with Greggl, AE is the most widely used tool for motion graphics work.

There is no one-size-fits-all solution, each tool has strenghs and limitations, there is no single tool that meets every need.
 
Greggl said:
[...] for a guy just getting started and working in a project studio capacity [Shake is] serious overkill [...]
Click to expand...
Interesting to note that today Apple announced the release of Shake 4.1, a Universal version of the application and cut the price from $2,999 to $499. That's pretty amazing for sophisticated software that offers compositing, keying, image tracking, stabilization, color correction, and more and has been used in lots of movies and commercials. This changes the picture completely in terms of overkill. For $499, now anyone can dabble with a high end compositor with a data flow workflow... wow, only a few years ago Shake was a six figure piece of software that required a serious SGI workstation, today you can have a virtual ILM on your desktop (talent not included) for several thousand dollars (depending on your tastes in speed).

Lots of excitment over on this thread right now: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=61760
 
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