From Full Size Over-the-Shoulder to HVX200

thebman18

thebman18

Member
I am looking forward to leaping over to the HVX200 band wagon. In fact, I will be getting 3 of them.

But, I have never owned a smaller handheld camera before (i.e. DVX100 or VX2000 or Z1U or GL2 or XL1 or HVX200). It has always been large format (over-the-shoulder) ENG Style cameras like Sony DXC-D30 or JVC XY-2BU or JVC GY-DV5000.

So I haven't had much experience working with smaller cameras hand-held.

Is it a big leap? Are they difficult to get used in regards to hand-held shooting. Is it easy to keep them steady while shooting? I tend to shoot hand-held for 30 min. to an hour at a time. Do you recommend a monopod? Or other camera stabilization method?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
I've only used the smaller cameras --- with one exception. And that one time, I was surprised by how long I could go with the ENG OTS camera. I'll be curious to see what you think. And, I'd definitly get a monopod (or a flyer if you can afford it).
 
In my opinion the smaller cameras are actually much more difficult to operate hand held.

You get used to it, yes, but it puts more strain on parts of your back and shoulder with smaller muscles you arent used to using as much.

A nice ENG camera has a good weight to it, and you have more precise control of the camera. You stand up at full height with a full size much longer and more comfortably with a full size ENG camera.

I generally end up holding smaller cameras under slung with my right hand and operate the focus/zoom with my right.

There are over the shoulder devices you can buy for the cameras...but then you have to add weight to the back of the device to get it to balance out or else its just too front heavy and unstable.
 
I think the HVX is very difficult to operate handheld for extended periods of time. In fact, for the shots I did handheld in my last project, I jerryrigged a rod system with a clamp in the front to hold on to and distribute the weight more evenly. I would say that if you are planning to shoot with the HVX "on the go," you'd be well advised to look into some form of support for it like a DVRIG or the like. The camera gets very heavy very quickly and you will almost certainly have to use two hands to support it (whereas it's possible to shoot with the DVX one-handed without much difficulty). It's also difficult to operate the focus when you're holding the camera with two hands, and given that focus is very critical in HD, it makes for a pretty frustrating situation.
 
Brian,

Check out www.pagusa.com Click on products - Orbitor. Best small camera support system I've ever used; and I think I've tried them all. US distributor is www.Ste-man.com

I just wrote a column about the Orbitor for the June edition Action! Magazine. If you call Ste-man, you can drop my name with David Butler if you want.

Best,

I.
 
B-man,

I definitely support (no pun intended) the idea of some kind of support or handle system. When shooting handheld, I use the automatic features with the small cameras now, and I was resistant to at first. The ergonomics of the cameras and the hand positions make shooting fully manual more difficult in many circumstances. If it's run and gun, I'll use auto exposure and auto focus if it's appropriate for the situation. Or I'll go back and forth between auto and man.

I don't have a HVX-200 yet, but on my 100A I focus manually by wrapping one of my fingers around the clamp screw on the Chrosziel matte box and run focus with my index finger. This serves to give a more stable shot and allow manual focus at the same time.

As others have mentioned, flipping out the LCD and craddling the cam with both hands is another technique. It is a different mindset from a big cam, but once you get your technique down it's all good.

It's a different set of muscles that get sore as well. My biceps and the muscle group along the spine get sore now... ;-)

Regarding a handle system, I have a Cavision that I used with my PD-150 but never used with the DVX-100A because it made the cam very nose heavy and heavier overall with no way to support the weight on the shoulder. So I finally ordered their shoulder brace and it should be here early next week. I'm looking forward to using it. Sixteen years of lugging around a betacam has taken it's toll, I need all the help I can get. Now where's my Advil...
 
Other then the 1/3" CCD's, the lack of shoulder mount was my biggest reason for re-thinking the HVX.
The price and versatility well overcame the downsides. So I bought in.

Take a look at this from anton bauer.
http://www.antonbauer.com/stasis.htm

They are working with me to fine tune the Stasis for the HVX. I love the power/shoulder mount/light combined. (even though I won't use the camera light much).

It's a great option and I gotta say, the company and customer service has been a total GREAT experience.

They also have a wrist support system which is great if you still want to hand hold the unit. You can see it here.
http://www.antonbauer.com/home.htm
 
I am switching to the small handheld format as well, and purchased the cavision shoulder mount and hand grips. I'll be putting padding on the shoulder mount today and will eventually get a big battery for the back of it. Either V-mount or Anton Bauer.
 
Yes it's definatly harder to keep the smaller ones steady in handheld situations and yes it certainly is more of a strain on your back and neck.

However, being lighter and smaller they tend to have quicker set up and storage time. Yes it's just a few seconds here and there but it adds up and makes my life easier.
 
I played with the fig rig at NAB. A great tool for walking shots. I might get one some day. But I see it more as a tool for specific shots. Not a normal shooting solution.
 
I really like using a monopod. It's small and easy. Great for doing interviews and high angle shots. Be sure and get a small tilt head for it. It's very quick to take camera off and on depending on your angles. Stows away nicely. Economical too.
 
Fig Rig

Fig Rig

I just shot a 20-minute feature with a Fig Rig which I kept after the shoot. I really enjoyed it. We were able to get a nice handheld look without that shaky feeling you get from most reality TV. Not steadi-cam feeling, obviously, but a nice smooth look. Ergonomically, I liked it as well. By crossing my forearm through the center of the device and locking it into my chest, it gave me a very stable, yet mobile platform for dramatic shots where I wanted to accentuate the height of the characters. By the end of each day, though, I was physically wiped out. But we were going 12-14 hours a day and I was the only one on camera. Fun shoot, though.
 
Illya Friedman said:
Brian,

Check out www.pagusa.com Click on products - Orbitor. Best small camera support system I've ever used; and I think I've tried them all. US distributor is www.Ste-man.com
Click to expand...
This system looks very cool. I think with an upper weight limit of 9.9 it probably wouldn't work to well with a fully loaded hvx cam though. Also with m2, rear mounted lcd and matte i wonder if it would fit/balance anyway on a rig like this?
 
PAG Orbitor looks interesting, especially the 3d axis capability. My main concern is that I use Anton Bauer batts, not PAGs. Deal breaker right there.

chris li/wash. dc
 
I've got a DVX100A and a PAG Orbitor. I guess it all depends on the style of shooting you're after, but the PAG has allowed me to shoot all day and interact and direct people at the same time, because it balances handsfree no problem when locked off the horizontal axis. In the end it's going to give a handheld-style look, rather than the smooth Steadicam or rock solid tripod look, but for my use I've been very happy. Using the camera without it (although saving time by not needing to strap on the Orbitor) has been lousy for me in comparison.
On the Fig Rig, some reviews have said it's great, but one noted that it has no base to balance it on the ground if you want to put it down. For me, that'd be annoying.
 
I've had a chance to use the Cavision shoulder brace now. Combined with the rod and handle system it rocks! I'm able to get much much smoother handheld shots, especially with a longer lens. It is much more comfortable and quite adjustable as well. I've mounted my wireless reciever on the back of the shoulder brace and thereby eliminated the need to carry it in a fanny pack. It also balances the rig out a bit more.

The drawbacks? With the camera and shoulder brace it has a franken camera appearance- big whup. More importantly, I haven't yet found a way to place my tripod plate on the bootom of the handle plate without it hitting the handles or other componnents. I think it will be possible, but I may have to remove the shoulder brace for shooting on sticks. In the mean time I have to remove the brace system and re-attach the tripod plate in order to shoot on sticks. I can make this adjustment in a minute or so.
 
What would be the ultimate camera size/configuration?

Should Pani build a new cage for the HVX that mounts on the shoulder and can hold dual batteries and hard drive storage?
 
ESTEBEVERDE said:
Should Pani build a new cage for the HVX that mounts on the shoulder and can hold dual batteries and hard drive storage?
Click to expand...
Speaking purely on ergonomic grounds (I stress!), both they and Sony should be taking a lot of note of what JVC have done. Design the ergonomics for handheld use properly in the first place. I normally use a 2/3" shoulder mount, and sometimes have to use something like a PD170 for special shots. It still amazes me that it is more fiddly and difficult to use than my much larger camera, and in spite of the lighter weight, the front heavy aspect gives me a much harder time (physically) than handholding a large shouldermount. My experiences with the HVX make me think it to be if anything even worse in this respect.

As far as bolt on devices for this type of camera go, they may have some benefits, but are useless if you need to put the camera on and off the tripod in any hurry. They also don't solve the problem of all the bulk of the camera being in front of the cameraman, and a Z1 or HVX can be more awkward in a confined space than a 2/3" camera - shoulder brace or no.
 
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