4-cam comparison -- initial response

Image to image comparison seems unfavorable

Image to image comparison seems unfavorable

Hello Barry, hi everybody,

i am the happy owner of an AG-DVX100 and i am interested in the HVX 200. I extensively read all i could about it, particularly your threads and the www.dv.com comparison article. I know that a lot of things are important in the decision of buying a camera. And i really agree on a lot of points with you, especially because i own already a fantastic DVX100.

I still need one information that you can answer on a particular point that i consider important: image sharpness. And only on that point. It is clear, when i look at the comparison article written by Adam Wilt, that there is a difference between the JVC and the Panasonic. Look at he scenic shot comparison, with the woman sitting at a desk, facing the camera. The Panasonic is not able to get as much detail as the JVC, and i find the image unfavorable for Panasonic. Maybe the Panasonic shot was slightly bad focused. But if it was well focused, and i imagine that the test was serious enough, then the difference is important, really important (look at the eye and hair of the woman, and the charts do confirm that). And honestly i am bit desperate that this happened. The article also suggest that the lack of specs of the captor hides a lower than expected resolution. But that is not my point, i just want to look at the real world test done with the image of the woman, it is a frame to frame comparison, uncompressed . Despite all the qualities of the HVX200, isn't this a problem?
 
There is disagreement over where the shot should have been focused. I'm going to try to get my hands on another HD100 and try to do some real-world shots with it and with the HVX. I already have access to the Sony so I can get some three-cam variety shots like people have been asking.
 
Hello Barry and all,

I was wondering if you (and everyone else) can give an opinion on these 4 cameras in terms of which shows the best resolution and most pleasing filmic look when blown up for the big screen. This is the most important aspect for me because, though I realize that even today most commercial viable films are seen on some type of standard definition broadcast (as opposed to theatrical release), the truth is that for me, as an independent filmmaker, who usually sees independent film premieres for the first time on theatrical screens in film festivals (whether they are projected digitally or from 35mm print) it is important for my goals to see which one of these cameras comes closest to stacking up against 35mm, super 16, Sony F900 or Panasonic Varicam theatrical screen projection.

I have seen several variations of DV films blown up for the big screen and, as good as many of them are, they come very far from looking similar to 35mm, super 16, F900 or Varicam. So can you help? I am trying to choose right now a cost effective alternative to shooting with an F900 or Varicam, while getting a look as close to these cameras when blown up for the big-screen.

My biggest concern is that I am under the impression from my own research that HDV blwon up does not hold up to HDcam. But this is all based on readings and hearsay and not actually seeing with my own eyes. Can any of you help?

Thank you

Sincerely,
New Guy
 
Not really; without a controlled scientific test there's no real way to know how they compare to each other. The question you have to ask is: whichever one is your chosen one, will it hold up on the big screen? And the answer, for all four of them, is: they'll hold up a darn sight better than DV does.

Marcus at DVFilm did some blowups from an FX1/Z1 when it first came out, and said that it was way sharper than any DV camera he'd blown up from. Pappas has seen some film blowups from the HVX and XLH1, and others have seen blowups from the HD100 (I haven't seen any yet, although eventually I'll get around to doing a reel of all four cameras blown up to film). Ilya Friedman was producer over an HVX project that was blown up to film.

The producers of "Munich" chose the HVX for a composite shot that's inserted into the overseas theatrical release of "Munich", so it obviously held up for that purpose.

I don't know which one may hold up "best", but I can say that they'll all hold up much better than DV cameras do, and none of them will hold up nearly as well as HDCAM or VariCam would. And that's to be expected, given that they cost 1/10 the price of those cameras.
 
how about HDV vs. DVCPRO HD when blown-up

how about HDV vs. DVCPRO HD when blown-up

Thank you so much for the response Barry,

One final question. How about DVCPRO HD vs. HDV when blown-up. Which one looks closest to either the F900 or Varicam?

Just on what I read I would guess (stupidly perhaps) that DVCPRO HD is superior in blow-up to HDV because of the GOP of HDV and the higher compression artifacts.

What do you think? Right now I have the opportunity to choose one of these four cameras over the other, so having that choice beforehand which is your opinion.

Thank you so much for the references. I will try to follow-up and if you guys are out there what are your opinions.

Thank you
 
Can't answer that as I haven't blown any of 'em up. I can say that for my own taste I prefer the DVCPRO-HD format over HDV in all cases, shapes, sizes, and circumstances.

But none of these cameras will have all the goodness of a VariCam or F900. There's a reason those cameras cost $70,000 to $100,000 and these other cameras cost under $10,000. However, the image difference is nowhere near as much as the price difference.

If you want F900 quality, you have to get an F900. If you want Varicam quality, you have to get a Varicam. Use these tools for what they are, not for what you wish they were.
 
Hello Barry,

thank you for your answer. It is surprising that the focus was not done on the same target for every camera. I hope you will be able to compare them soon, i will try to get an HVX and an HD100 to do some shots also, i am very curious about the result.

Stefan
 
jazzx said:
I believe these statements are contradicting each other. How will the P2 price ever drop if there are not enough products that are using this technology and more so a mid-end, relatively high sales product like the HVX that can produce enough demand for P2 cards so that we can experience a drop in price?
I don't think that the high-end SD card price tag alone, is driving the prices on P2 cards, after all only Panasonic manufactures them.
Click to expand...

Of course the price will come down.

The reason why they are so high right now is that the SD cards that are in them are a bit expesive.

This will all change.

The modular nature of the P2 cards will allow them to be upgraded as technology changes as well.
 
No doubt in my mind; since getting the HVX200, I won't go back to SD cameras to get SD footage. The footage in SD simply looks better coming from the HVX, presumably because it is captured in HD before being processed into SD. This is especially noticable when shooting in 16:9.
 
I know what you mean. I just shot some night footage of an outdoor musical event in New York State straight to mini DV on the HVX. The fact that it is bering captured from a higher res chip in the first place made for some really sharp looking SD.
BTW, it was in a farmer's field in the middle of nowhere and the event was lit with a single kerosene lantern. And (OMG) it had some noise in it. To me it had a very organic look. Not ideal, but certainly not objecyionable to view. It did have that old high ASA 16 mm appearence.

..but the HD footage of the Deleware river in the daylight...
I have created a conitinuous loop for viewing on my 42" Samsung plasma.display. I am now unable to move from my sofa, which is NOT located anywhere near the Deleare River...
 
HVX SD is much better than DVX SD and resolution-wise, about the same as XL2. Many prefer the color gamma from the HVX although it does have more noise than the XL2. BTW, I used InstantHD ($99) to upconvert some HVX SD into a Varicam project and it held up quite well, pretty amazing... The Vari overall still blows it away IMHO (better control, less noise, 2/3" CCD, etc.) but the resolution was shockingly close



ash =o)
 
AshG said:
HVX SD is much better than DVX SD and resolution-wise, about the same as XL2. Many prefer the color gamma from the HVX although it does have more noise than the XL2. BTW, I used InstantHD ($99) to upconvert some HVX SD into a Varicam project and it held up quite well, pretty amazing... The Vari overall still blows it away IMHO (better control, less noise, 2/3" CCD, etc.) but the resolution was shockingly close



ash =o)
Click to expand...

by SD you mean mini dv or dvcpro50?
 
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