X-Men 3

Having so many spoilers been written in this thread, I think I won't hold back on plot analysis. Here's my personal view:

I hated this movie. I have to admit that I was (haven't read a Marvel comic for years now) a fan of the X-men comics, specially the Phoenix Saga.

To someone who doesn't read the comics aqnd just sees the films, the relationship between Jean and Scott ends up probably as a conflicted couple relationship. It is nowhere near as their relationship in the comic books. In the comics, their relationship is one of the pilars of the X-men Universe, with many spin-offs and alternate universes always ending up with their two together because of their "love". Described as true soul mates, Jean as dumped Wolverine's attemps in every alternate Universe the writters at marvel conceived. I believe that many Marvel writters are quite upset with this movie.

Seeing things ending that way for Scott, the "average guy" and all round normal fellow of the X-men (it is very easy to relate to this character in the comics) made me pretty disappointed, specially by the way it did, with that "Kiss of Death" from Jean- Interesting how Jean just wanted to have a good time with Wolverine and with Scott it was instant pulverization, maybe Scott wasn't doing his thing right in the hanky panky department.

I remember hearing Hale Berry and Hugh Jackman asking for more screen time in the sequels. Well, I believe the script was completely rewritten to make the story revolve around these two characters, wich, integrated in the Phoenix Saga storyline, completely destroyed the movie. The original Phoenix Saga was about Jean and Scott, and now, is about Jean and... Wolverine? The thing is, at the end, you just don't care for anyone and their fate, in the movie.

Magneto is such a powerfull character, but not very bright, is he? In the comics, he takes Wolverine's adamantium out. He can control the amounth of IRON in a persons bloodstream. I find it surprising that the military was only talking about using non metallic weapons. Their other gear- Helmets, etc seemed very metallic to me...

There are just so many no no's in this movie... Too many characters, too little story, there's no way to relate to them, Human life (mutant and none mutant) is taken as disposable assets (Wolverine and the X-men defend Alcatraz KILLING fellow mutants? Specially Wolverine and the claw action. These are people that are confused and don't know what to do. Is this the way to stop them?)

Charles passing trough Juggernaut was also something that made me feel annoyed as a comic book fan. Charles Xavier is Juggernaut Half Brother, and there are some serious issues there.

All in all, to sum this up, I just couldn't relate to any of the characters, they were poorly developed, didn't had any depth (the comic characters had years to develop that depth, but one can do a hell of a lot better in character development in a movie), had ridiculous plot holes and unmotivated actions (Death of Scott, Xavier, death of the members of the brotherhood), had very bad build up pacing (Mistique- out 2 seconds. Magneto- out. 1 and a half seconds- Xavier. Out, 1 minute. Scott, out. Kiss of death. 2 seconds.).

The only watchable thing here was The beast, with good acting from "Frasier", and the old guys- Magneto and Xavier. And Juggernaut, no, Vinnie Jones, was a good watch, as always (This guy should be in more hollywood movies...)

A waste of time and a beautiflull storyline. They should have asked Chris Claremont (the original writer of the Phoenix Saga) to write the script.

A final description of a scene that can somehow sum up the movie.

The Beast, Storm and Wolverine are in a Meeting in the mansion after Xaviers death. The Beast says: We should close this school. Everyone seems to reflect on this. A kid comes in (Angel) asking if this was the safe place for mutants he heard about. The beast says " not anymore"-and Storm just says "No, it still is". There it is. A serious decision is just resolved in 10 seconds, by the almighty Storm. No discussion, no talk, no pros and cons. No analysis, nada.

And this is what Happens with Rogue's story, Angel's story, Jean and Scott's story, Mistique's story, and so on.

It does feel, like someone said, like a Saturday morning cartoon EPISODE (the ones that end with "to be continued"). I've just been too spoiled with good Superhero movies like The first and second Burton Batmans, Batman Begins, Spiderman 1 and 2, and even the original Superman to be able to watch and feel entertained by this b-movie trash. Not to sound too harsh but I seriously don't recommend this movie.
 
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I agree with everything you just said except for not recommending this movie. I do recommend this movie as long as you don't go into thinking that you will gain some type of extra insight into the x-men world and that it's going to follow the x-men storyling. If you want an action packed blow em up movie this this is the way to go
 
SPZ said:
Charles passing trough Juggernaut was also something that made me feel annoyed as a comic book fan. Charles Xavier is Juggernaut Half Brother, and there are some serious issues there.
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unfortunatley in the movies they changed that... Juggs is actually a mutant unlike in the comics and he has no history with Xavier.... which was a dumb move IMO
 
wow...completely amazed at this thread.

first it seems with every movie where the "hero" dies, people storm out hating the movie...seriously think about that. whenever there's a happy ending and everybody lives and the day is saved (outside of armageddon) then it's the best movie ever. that's human nature if the person you are rooting for loses - everything sucks, somebody cheated, on and on, but if your guy/team wins oh the celebration.

anyway where are the x-men comic fans - obviously those of you who say you are and then complain that professor x gets obliterated...how many times has professor x died in the books? heck how many times have x-men died in the books? happens all the time - so much so the best line ever in the first movie "don't you people ever die?!"

earlier someone asked "where's jubilee?" - um, in the movie along with psylocke and a few others - read the credits :)

for those of you complaining that ratner didn't read the books...well he did and he even says in an interview that he liked certain characters, but liked other's powers so he combined characters/powers...so for instance psylocke is psylocke by name, but not by power - if you get what i'm saying.

as for character development...i can't believe no one's glad that this movie focused more on what was happening instead of origin's and backstory which x-fans really don't need. do you think a new "fan" just by the movies alone really cares that juggernaut may be related to professor x?

finally anything can happen in the marvel universe and anyone who reads the books knows that. so why complain about this movie? oh wait earlier the post about why wolverine has more control than cyclops...hmmm...wolverine has his own series. where's the cyclops series? there are plans for a wolverine movie...i believe a "new mutants" and one of the other x-men gets a solo...i forget who.

now what could be my one nitpick - though the quick change from day to night was very noticeable. anyway when magneto moves the bridge i thought...jean/dark phoenix could probably move the planet why doesn't she..??? and then i thought "ah well enjoy it"

oh and before i completely forget...Naachhoooooooooooo! :grin:
 
directinglegend said:
can someone clearly explain what happend after the credits?
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Spoiler alert--sorta
Wait a sec! Professor X isnt dead. Hes still alive sorta. After the credits rolled, there was one last scene where we see someone lying in a hospice bed, A doctor comes over to check the patient's chart, and you hear a voice say,"Joyce". She looks at him and says in a startled fashion, "Charles!".
 
novelt said:
wow...completely amazed at this thread.

first it seems with every movie where the "hero" dies, people storm out hating the movie...seriously think about that. whenever there's a happy ending and everybody lives and the day is saved (outside of armageddon) then it's the best movie ever. that's human nature if the person you are rooting for loses - everything sucks, somebody cheated, on and on, but if your guy/team wins oh the celebration.

anyway where are the x-men comic fans - obviously those of you who say you are and then complain that professor x gets obliterated...how many times has professor x died in the books? heck how many times have x-men died in the books? happens all the time - so much so the best line ever in the first movie "don't you people ever die?!"

earlier someone asked "where's jubilee?" - um, in the movie along with psylocke and a few others - read the credits :)

for those of you complaining that ratner didn't read the books...well he did and he even says in an interview that he liked certain characters, but liked other's powers so he combined characters/powers...so for instance psylocke is psylocke by name, but not by power - if you get what i'm saying.

as for character development...i can't believe no one's glad that this movie focused more on what was happening instead of origin's and backstory which x-fans really don't need. do you think a new "fan" just by the movies alone really cares that juggernaut may be related to professor x?

finally anything can happen in the marvel universe and anyone who reads the books knows that. so why complain about this movie? oh wait earlier the post about why wolverine has more control than cyclops...hmmm...wolverine has his own series. where's the cyclops series? there are plans for a wolverine movie...i believe a "new mutants" and one of the other x-men gets a solo...i forget who.

now what could be my one nitpick - though the quick change from day to night was very noticeable. anyway when magneto moves the bridge i thought...jean/dark phoenix could probably move the planet why doesn't she..??? and then i thought "ah well enjoy it"

oh and before i completely forget...Naachhoooooooooooo! :grin:
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In Batman Returns, Catwoman dies... "Sorta", like Xavier or Ciclops.

There's nothing wrong with killing heroes. Terminator 2 worked with the "death"of the T800, and it was a memorable moment. In XMEN 3, the heroes die or "lose" without any momentum whatsoever. This is bad pacing and storytelling, in my book. And don't come to me with "realism", with all the over the top cheese dialogue of "The Mansion stays open!" kind of stuff.

Spider-man, Batman, Superman, in their movie incarnations, are heroes. They don't kill innocent people like Wolverine and his pairs, who just butcher the new mutants. Just look at the way storm literally fried the "Flash" girl. Very heroesque there. Magneto was a simpathetic character. He didn't kill that nice family in the car and locked their door. You just don't feel right about the end of that character. Plot wyse, there are so many discrepancies, like this one: Magneto loses his powers and flees. This is enough NOT to make him a wanted criminal, such as he can walk in the park and be playing chess with the veterans? This might be nitpicking, but similar discrepancies are all over the place in this movie.

Characters need depth. This is a movie, not a TV soap opera.Saying that everything is in the books so there's no problem to just let them brawl is a lame argument. As it stands, this movie, for someone who hadn't seen any of the previous movies, or read the comics, must feel completely non-sensical.

Sam Raimi knew what Spider-Man was all about. It was about the man more than the Superhero. The same goes with the X-Men. Its more about the people, the way society sees them, their day to day problems in integration, and, of course, their own relationships, than Battle Royale. It is an analogy to our modern society. Failling to see this, and turning it to just a bloodfest of super-human fights just completely misses the point of the books, and turns this into passable entertainment. Want to see an unpretencious "Saturday Morning Like" superhero movie that has "sorta" the essence of X-men, at least as a portrayal of the X- mansion? Go see Sky High. Its an average movie, but much better than X-Men 3.

Even tough I didn't like much the Lord Of The Rings, comparing this to it is simply outrageous. This is a complete waste of a nicelly wriitten comic book franchise with great potential. That's my POV.
 
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There's nothing wrong with killing heroes.
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and thus the start of your whole contradiction. it's okay to kill them, but the x-men are supposed to turn the other cheek. i get it.

magneto fleeing...why not stay and get vaporized with everybody else? and you quote me and then mention lord of the rings...i made no such comparison.

Saying that everything is in the books so there's no problem to just let them brawl is a lame argument.
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didn't say that either. i said people are complaining that prof x dies, scott and jean die well geez nearly every x-man in the marvel universe has died. matter of fact magneto sucked/ripped the adamantium right out of wolverine. angel became archangel. sorry i keep bringing up psylocke, but she's died 2 or 3 times and was jean grey at one time. i did say anything can happen in the marvel universe.

characters need depth? what were the first two about they basically set up this story. do you really need back story on juggernaut? how much more do you need to get into rogue's head? or her relationship with iceman?

speaking of cheese...that's what comics are all about...and yet everyone complains about not staying true to the books. so there's a limit to how true one can be? keep the characters, but change the dialogue. in which movie has wolverine said "i'm the best there is at what i do"...i have yet to see rogue fly. no one's complained that we didn't see beast go from human to "furball"...or do you not remember?

as i said earlier most of these "hatin' " posts wouldn't be here if charles, scott, and jean would've lived.

finally, where are people getting this "joyce" from?? it's moira mctaggert.
 
I'm not going for anything personal here, novelt. To each his own in their opinions. I quoted you because I don't see anyone upset by the fact Professor X, Jean or Scott died, but HOW and WHY they died. There was no need for those deaths. There was no build up. there was no justification or interior motive for that.

Juggernaut story wasn't much of a problem, too. Vinnie Jones did a good Job, as always. He looked like the " hooligan" (in a good way) that he portrays so well. Specially liked the way he " Kicks" someone. He still has the skills :) .

My problem with the Magneto situation was the fact he was enjoying his retirement playing chess. A wanted man like him, without powers, staying in the United States, enjoying a game of chess seems quite unbelievable. And it seems odd there was no one waiting on the other side of the bridge, since that was obviously the only escape route.

But this is nitpicking. What I think this movie is lacklustre is because it has a bad story, with plotholes, bad character development, unexplainable and non-sensical developments, and, above all, no soul.

Anyway, I can see you don't understand where I'm getting at, so there. To each his own. :)
 
I just need to say something more about this movie. It just bothers me that it is getting so good reviews, with so much plot problems...

Didn't anyone feel the complete change of character of Professor X from the first and second movies to the third? He was a fascist manipulator in 3, "loking" Jean Grey's Mind... How can someone that actually creates a school for youngsters to control and learn about their powers with responsability simply "lock" another person's mind?

Oh, and the leader of the X-men in both x1 and x2 dies, and no one cares. Business as usual. That is terrible, terrible character development and team spirit creation.

Jean was out of control to Kill Scott (her one true love, as seen in X1 and X2), and her " menthor" , proving she was completely nuts, but she stays relaxed and in control with Magneto? Also, in a certain " almost sex scene" , she asks Logan to " Kill Her" ? She can control herself with Wolverine, and not with Ciclops?

Magneto goes with all the trouble to find Mistique, and with her "transformation" , he immediatly abandons her? No trying for an antidote, etc? My former fanboy, as well as the storytelling and aspiring filmmaker blood is boiling!

Also, isn't Jean a Telepath? Can't she read and control the minds of everyone, like professor x? What the heck was she doing then? Why not look into Ciclops, Magneto, Wolverine, etc?

Magneto must really love Wolverine, since he always trows him out of trouble, instead of killing him. He also must have a problem with truck drivers. They are instantly killed, while little kids and families are locked in a safe and confortable position.

This movie is so lacklustre in therms of plot and story , that I could go on for hours here... This is Batman and Robin all over again! :(
 
Thank You that's right on the money SPZ. The root of my complaint has never been that I was mad that they didn't follow the comic/series it was that they didn't follow that and what they replaced it with was fillied with holes and I couldn't find any linkage.

Was anybody else reminded of Obi wan when Prof X. died ?
 
I myself am not a big comic fan here. but. I enjoyed the film. but it seemed to me like some scenes were completley amazing, dialouge and all. and than a bunch of shitty scenes made by another writer. I had really low expectation though. so maybe I enjoyed it more than I would have orginally if I say... watched the first two films before I went and saw it
 
It seems to me that the film was rushed. It attempted to give the fans what they wanted, i.e. Sentinels, Iceman "icing up", the danger room, the fastball special, dark phoenix; but it was a case of too little too late.

Was I the only one waiting to see Colossus and Juggy fight it out?

The biggest problem with X3 was that the history of the characters wasn't respected at all. It seemed that the studio wanted to finalize the trilogy and give a sense of closure. Xavier, Cyclops, and Phoenix dying and numerous mutants losing their powers was the easiest way to wrap things up.
 
Though I was never much of an X-men reader, X-men is a far more complicated universe to translate than probably any other comics to film property. It would be very difficult to have done the Dark Phoenix story rather faithfully.

I think its easier to fault the movie Batman or Spider-man because the stories are much simpler and fundamental changes were done to both. Burton's Batman made the Joker the killer of his parents--seems small but it changes his motivation radically, and worse, because I was a huge reader, Raimi's Spider-man made Parker's reason for becoming Spider-man center on his inexplicable sudden gripe with Uncle Ben in the car. In the comics--Parker became arrogant..but not towards his aunt and uncle. In the movie--the only reason he didnt stop the thief was because the wrestling manager ripped him off.
In fact--Parker seemed pretty indifferent about his schoolmates(in the comics he was pretty resentful)--and they turned Flash Thompson into a one dimensional goon. Lots of missed opportunities there.
I can understand them wanting to appeal to fans who came to Spider-man after he got married--but the Stan Lee-Dikto stories were the blueprint for making a great movie. Lee even remarked once that the Donner Superman movies borrowed elements of the Spider-man story(especially in the Smallville sequences).

Even if i wasnt a spider-man fan though--they really did put more care into the writing and story telling in the days of Superman than they do now. These days they have the release date for a movie even before they have a script.
 
novelt said:
earlier someone asked "where's jubilee?" - um, in the movie along with psylocke and a few others - read the credits :)
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For a chick who should have been a much bigger character, only to be lost in a crowd and only to be found in the credits, Jubilee and other mutants got put on a lower level than "Blowfish Man"?

*sigh*
 
When the first movie came along, I was worried it was going to be "WOLVERINE!!!! Oh, and the X-Men." Singer kept it from being that in both of his movies.

Ratner took it there at warp speed.

My favorite character in the X-Men has always been Cyclops, because he was the most human of all. He got short shrift in the second movie, and for this one, I can't even imagine why James Marsden signed up at all.

Oh . . . BTW: Jean is NOT Cable's mother.

I give it 2 out of 5 stars, for many of the reasons already stated (including the sudden nightfall). I will say that Olivia Williams is perfect for Moira MacTaggart, if only they actually used her.
 
David Jimerson said:
When the first movie came along, I was worried it was going to be "WOLVERINE!!!! Oh, and the X-Men." Singer kept it from being that in both of his movies.

Ratner took it there at warp speed.

My favorite character in the X-Men has always been Cyclops, because he was the most human of all. He got short shrift in the second movie, and for this one, I can't even imagine why James Marsden signed up at all.

Oh . . . BTW: Jean is NOT Cable's mother.

I give it 2 out of 5 stars, for many of the reasons already stated (including the sudden nightfall). I will say that Olivia Williams is perfect for Moira MacTaggart, if only they actually used her.
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i agree with you David except I'd go 3 out of 5 stars though. Cyclops wasn't one of my favorites in the comics... my favs have always been Gambit, Beast and Wolverine. Hopefully Gambit will be in X4 and the same with Moira.
 
David Jimerson said:
When the first movie came along, I was worried it was going to be "WOLVERINE!!!! Oh, and the X-Men." Singer kept it from being that in both of his movies.

Ratner took it there at warp speed.

My favorite character in the X-Men has always been Cyclops, because he was the most human of all. He got short shrift in the second movie, and for this one, I can't even imagine why James Marsden signed up at all.

Oh . . . BTW: Jean is NOT Cable's mother.

I give it 2 out of 5 stars, for many of the reasons already stated (including the sudden nightfall). I will say that Olivia Williams is perfect for Moira MacTaggart, if only they actually used her.
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That's true Madelyne Pryor is his mother but I didn't wanna be too much of a geek :)
 
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