Hvx200a
- Thread starter vip77
- Start date
Barry_Green
Moderator
Probably zero. The 1080 codec is interlaced, and thus requires pulldown. 24pN mode is only possible in 720p mode because the 720p mode is completely frame-independent.
TwistedLincoln
Veteran
24pn only records the 24 actual frames being captured, rather than duplicating them using pulldown. The result is smaller files, and longer run time on your P2 card.
Zack Birlew
Veteran
Cool, I've been wondering what the "24PN" stuff was all about! 
So, are there any cons to this method (ie. NLE issues)?
So, are there any cons to this method (ie. NLE issues)?
DavidBeier
Veteran
Jack_Felis said:Cool, I've been wondering what the "24PN" stuff was all about!
So, are there any cons to this method (ie. NLE issues)?
Actually, it makes your life a lot easier as far as I see when editing comes in. For me it means no more of those cases where I can start to see DV lines because I catch the fields and such. It also simply makes the equation easier compared to what I had to deal with on the DVX100. No more trying to keep in mind the differences between 24p and 24pA and how they get their FPS. Just 24 pure frames just like film. So nice.
Did I miss something somewhere? What's this about an HVX200a being released possibly at year end? More info, please. (The initial message in this thread could possibly be read as mere speculation; but the exact wording of that message, and the fact that Barry's reply didn't contain any hint that an HVX200a has not in fact been announced, makes me wonder...)
evinsky
Well-known member
There is no HVX200"A" in the foreseeable future. And if there was it would almost certainly not record to any more or different codecs than the current version, save the possibility of the H264 variant announced recently, but very little information is available on that and it's going to take quite a bit of time to mature down the line into an HVX form factor.
Barry_Green
Moderator
I think the odds are zero because the DVCPRO-HD 1080i codec is being used in all sorts of Panasonic products, at all sorts of levels; the HVX, the HDX400, the HDX900, the 1200A deck, the 1400 deck, FCP, Edius, Avid, DVC Rack, HD Log, P2 Viewer, all sorts of things. If they modify the codec for a 1080/24pN mode then they make the system totally incompatible. I don't think they'll do that.vip77 said:
Already they invented the 720/24pN mode and in order to preserve compatibility with everything else out there they had to disable the firewire output. At the bare minimum a 1080/24pN system would probably mean disabling firewire output.
The benefit to a 1080pN mode would also be comparatively minimal; it'd mean a 20% space savings, vs. the 60% space savings that comes from 720/24pN.
So maybe they'll do it, but I don't expect them to put any effort into it. Because the way I see it, if they were to develop a new codec I don't think there's a shot in heck that it'd be a DVCPRO-HD 1080/24pN. I think instead they would put in one of the other codecs they've announced for other products, such as AVC-HD (which has a 1080/24p recording mode) or AVC-Intra. I think either of those would be far more interesting. AVC-Intra would mean a 50mbps data rate as opposed to the 80mbps data rate of DVCPRO-HD 1080/24pN, so you'd get twice as much footage rather than just 20% more. And AVC-HD would mean five times as much footage recorded on a card, but then you'd have to deal with 4:2:0 color and with long-GOP issues.
So no -- I think the chances of DVCPRO-HD 1080/24pN are zero. Could happen, but if there were to be such a revision to a potential HVX200A, I'd rather see them explore the AVC-Intra mode, or maybe (hopefull) both AVC-Intra and AVC-HD.
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Barry_Green
Moderator
To back up what Evin said, there has been no discussion and no announcement of any HVX200A.KMR said:
I think we all expect that at some day, some point down the road, there would be an "A" version, simply because DVX history has demonstrated a DVX100, DVX100A, and DVX100B. But if and when it were to happen is anybody's guess, and I would agree with Evin that it's going to be quite a while before we see any hint of a revision to the HVX.
Mr. Blonde
RED Advocate
Seriously, anyone who is waiting around for an A model is wasting precious time. Ride the wave of the future and be an early adopter, you'll make your money back in no time if you have enough drive.
Not to mention, if an A model comes out, you can always sell your original model and pay the difference.
Not to mention, if an A model comes out, you can always sell your original model and pay the difference.
I'm positive that there will be an "A" Model. As with the DVX, there will be no warning before it is released. Buy the HVX now if you need it. Don't buy it in anticipation of needing it or becuase it is the latest and greatest. I bought my DVX without needing it. By time it finally got to work, the DVX100A was out.
So.... buy it when you need it. I have cash waiting to be spent on it.... or an SDX900.... or an HDX-400... or an F-900 Cinealta. Any of them will be bought when I get a series or feature that requires one of them. Gear is no good unless your clients need it.
So.... buy it when you need it. I have cash waiting to be spent on it.... or an SDX900.... or an HDX-400... or an F-900 Cinealta. Any of them will be bought when I get a series or feature that requires one of them. Gear is no good unless your clients need it.
Green Hornet
Veteran
This is the latest technology, there won't be much changing even if a new model did come out. The only thing they might improve would be the flip out monitor, and maybe add H.264 encoding.
I doubt that would merrit the desire to make a new model.
That wouldn't eliminate the features of the current model.
Any new model would likely be at a higher price.
At the current price point, I feel this camera will hold it's own for at least 6 years.
It is still new, so I wouldn't even expect a new camera untill at minimum 3 years.
Any new features would go into the next model up the line and then be introduced at a later time in the HVX200 lineage.
I doubt that would merrit the desire to make a new model.
That wouldn't eliminate the features of the current model.
Any new model would likely be at a higher price.
At the current price point, I feel this camera will hold it's own for at least 6 years.
It is still new, so I wouldn't even expect a new camera untill at minimum 3 years.
Any new features would go into the next model up the line and then be introduced at a later time in the HVX200 lineage.
What I don't understand is, why won't Panasonic support a 100-Mbps or even 200-Mbps intraframe AVC format? That would permit 10-bit, 4:4:4, 1,920 x 1,080 at 30p or 4:2:2 at 60p (and all the frame rates in between). By the time they introduce products based on this new format, P2 cards will probably hold 64 or even 128 GB.Barry_Green said:
BobDiaz
The Professor
Tzedekh said:
For now we are limited to 8GB P2 cards and going to 200Mbps would give us 1/2 a minute per GB. That would be OK when we have 64GB cards which are a ways off. As for smaller sizes, it looks like 2007 (or if we are really lucky, the end of 2006) is when we'll see 16GB cards. There's just no need to even try and support the higher data rates until the cards that can deal with it are selling.
Maybe that come NAB 2007, we'll hear of an HVX-200A with H.264 encoding and 10 bit video. This is all just a lot of guessing. If the 16GB cards come out, that would provide 64 minutes with two 16GB cards and 50 Mbps H.264 encoding. With both items, Panasonic could drive the "limited time" gripe into the ground.
Bob Diaz
That attitude would be extremely short-sighted of Panasonic. Besides, at 200 Mbps, an 8-GB card would have the same duration as a 4-GB card now. Eight minutes (on two P2 cards) of continuous at 4:4:4 HD would be a reasonable trade-off to those who need the quality (provided the CCDs supported "full" color), such as those wanting the best color resolution for greenscreen compositing.BobDiaz said:
Panasonic decided to weather the limited-time gripe by taking a long view and putting a high-bandwidth standard in place and letting storage capacities catch up. Besides, by 2007, there could be 500-GB hard-drive solutions and high-capacity solid-state Compact Flash drives. Why dumb down a video standard when storage capacities increase so quickly? Why not offer the higher data rates to those who want or need them? Would it cost Panasonic that much more to do so?