Bless Me Father For I Have Sinned...

T

Terence Lehane

Active member
OK, here goes. I'll confess everything!
After much soul-searching, hours and hours and hours of forum reading, hundreds of web site searches, months of waiting. weighing up the pros and cons, looking at workflows, prices, gadgets of all sorts... I finally decided to buy...
the SONY HVR Z1 :crybaby:.

I'm a very happy owner of the DVX100 already and would have done anything to get the HVX200 but for me the timing is wrong. My heart wants HD, not HDV, it wants beautiful 4.2.2. color, and P2 cards...
But my head brings me back down to earth asking me what will I be doing with the camera once I get it. I'll be doing music gigs, DVDs, dance shows, etc. I really need to be able to go out and shoot 6 or 7 hours no problem. The Sony's better for low light which is what I need in all these relatively dark, indoor situations. I'm not doing sports so I should be able to get round the HDV problems regarding fast moving pictures. I'm not doing movies so 24p is not going to be a big loss right now. I'll need to rent two more cameras for every gig so trying to rent 2 more HVX200 cameras plus all the accessories in terms of Firestores and/or P2 cards was just not a viable solution.

I have made the very pragmatic decision to go for the work tool I need and not the one I really want. The workflow I have in mind will give me very good SD and HD DVD in the very near future. The HVR Z1 image is very good but just has to be preserved throughout the workflow. I think solutions like Lumiere HD and the Aja Kona Lhe board can do that.

But I want to be very clear here. No way am I saying the Sony is better than the HVX. It really is a question of what the camera is being used for. There is absolutely no doubt that if I were doing fiction, shorts, movies... I would go for the HVX with the P2 card workflow. But for long haul stuff, with hours of footage and rental of equipment etc. the Panasonic system is not yet ready to handle that.

So it is with great regret that I have decided to get the Sony. You have probably shed tears of joy when your Panny came in the door. I'll be shedding a tear of sadness when my Sony comes in.

But for me this is only an intermediate step. I think HDV will do for 2 maybe 3 years but I'm really looking forward to buying the Panasonic HVX500 (don't google it, it doesn't exist yet) with 64 GB cards at $100 each and high powered Raid systems that are dirt cheap etc. That time will come in about 3 years. Until then I am saying Carpe Diem. I'm going to get on shooting with HDV the best I can while being perfectly aware of the limitations involved.

But I'll still be an asiduous reader of DVXUSER, biding my time until I can ebay my Sony, and looking forward to the UPS man knocking on my door saying "Package for Mr. Lehane from.. Sony, no sorry, that's from Panasonic Sir."

:crybaby::crybaby::crybaby:
 
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Sorry. That doesn't sound fun.

I understand your reasoning but it's something I couldn't do. Sure I'll shoot weddings, dances, church stuff, and other crap for money; but ultimatly the reason I got an HVX200 was not to pay bills but for my own projects. If I wanted just to make money then I certainly wouldn't have gone into this career. Yeah it's great to be able to get cash from my camera but the real reason it's here is for my films because making my own movies is what makes me happy and I want to get the best camera for that and then try to make it do the other stuff.

Nevertheless I understand your decision but personally I would have recommended the JVC. It's low light performance my not be as good as the Sony but you won't have to worry about buying P2 cards and it can certainly produce a MUCH nicer image than the Sony which simply looks like very sharp video to me (which is fine if that's what you want, I've just hated the camera since I used it on a documentary). Good luck though.

Ultimatly, a camera is just a tool. With a little ingenuity you can make anything work.
 
Well, I can understand your reasons why. It just comes down to extended recording times being a must for you. The only option I can think of is something like a Firestore (or Cineporter) for hard disk recording if you don't want to lug around a laptop. It's not too big of an investment beyond a new camera.

And I suppose the low-light capabilities are a concern.

Good luck!
 
Terrance... Kudos for such a passionate and RIGHT on assessment. We do need to pick what works for us in those situations. I also belive wholeheartedly in what David wrote about getting a camera for personal reasons... that is why I got the HVX- for my stuff.

However, when dealing with business you do have to cover your booty and get what you think is a good deal. I personally am saving up to buy the single chip sony HD cam and a water housing for it. For 2K I can shoot underwater HD.. and that's awesome and not as scary or expensive as the HVX in a can...

I do also know that the low-light on the sony is Awesome. I have shot with it... Really nice blacks and no noise. The colors though don't come close to the HVX or the cinematic nature... Also, editing HDV absoulty sucks....

But brother... I understand and I'm sure it was a hard decision.. but an informed one is never bad. Besides it's all just zeros and ones anyway...
 
In two or three years, the HVX200A will probably be available, so you have something to look forward to!
In the meantime, if you invest in something like CineForm Aspect HD, you can get used to an HD workflow (with HDV) and still be ready for your HVX when the time is right.
:)
 
You really didn't go wrong buying a Z1. Every one of us has different needs. And the Z1 is not a bad cam. Your next cam should be a second generation HVX with larger P2 cards or Firestore.
 
Just curious: if it broke your heart not to get an HVX, why did you end up going with the Sony and not with the JVC 100?
 
Terence Lehane said:
OK, here goes. I'll confess everything!
After much soul-searching, hours and hours and hours of forum reading, hundreds of web site searches, months of waiting. weighing up the pros and cons, looking at workflows, prices, gadgets of all sorts... I finally decided to buy...
the SONY HVR Z1 :crybaby:.
Click to expand...

No worries, enjoy your camera, and make money with it.

I purchased a Z1 from the first big batch to hit the states, and when I sold it, it went to work as one of the two main cameras on a $300,000 independent feature. It then spent NAB 2006 tooling around the show floor being used for on the spot interviews with folks like Jan and Jim Jannard. That camera really came alive AFTER I sold it. :)

They're fine machines. Cineframe 25 can be processed to make a very decent 24p looking product.

I'm very happy with my HVX but have learned not to poo-poo for the sake of poo-pooing. All of these 1/3" chip cameras have a place and can produce fine work.

Regards,

Jim Arthurs
 
For goodness sakes Terence, what the heck did you do???
You actually evaluated the jobs you do daily and will do for most of your near future.
All too often people buy into a product without this in mind. Then they piss and moan all over the forums because it doesn't work for their projects.
NICE JOB MAN!!!

The other thing you did well was explain it wasn't that the HVX sucked, it's just that you weren't right for the HVX. :)

I wish everyone had your sensability.
I did my homework and chose the HVX 200 for my company. But only after following the HD evolution for over 3 years/NAB's and found the HVX to be the perfect step for our entry into HD.

I wish you well Terence, but I think you already have more then luck going for you!
 
Thanks guys for all your supportive statements.
Of course editing HDV would be a pain but I'm going to use Lumiere HD to convert it to DVCPro HD anyway. Now that takes a bit of time at the ingest stage but is easily compensated for by the real time, inftra frame editing afterwards that preserves the quality of the image. So that new adventure awaits me.

Yeah I want to be as cool-headed and objective about this as possible. I'll give objective feedback on the pros and cons of the Sony and the HDV workflow when I really get into it since I'm not "married" to the camera nor Sony. I'm also glad to hear someone say the low light is good on the Sony. That reassures me a bit.

As for the JVC well when I decided to go for HDV I didn't want to hang around too much so I more or less went straight for the Sony. I probably should have weighed up the pros and cons more but anyway that's the way it is

But as I say I'm looking forward to coming back into the fold soon and I'm sure you'll be there to welcome me "home".


BTW Am I still allowed to hang out on this forum? :banned:
 
Don't feel bad. It's just a tool. And it sounds like it will work for you. If you make lot's of money with it, maybe you can afford an HDX900.

I.
 
Terence Lehane said:
OK, here goes. I'll confess everything!
After much soul-searching, hours and hours and hours of forum reading, hundreds of web site searches, months of waiting. weighing up the pros and cons, looking at workflows, prices, gadgets of all sorts... I finally decided to buy...
the SONY HVR Z1 :crybaby:.

I'm a very happy owner of the DVX100 already and would have done anything to get the HVX200 but for me the timing is wrong. My heart wants HD, not HDV, it wants beautiful 4.2.2. color, and P2 cards...
But my head brings me back down to earth asking me what will I be doing with the camera once I get it. I'll be doing music gigs, DVDs, dance shows, etc. I really need to be able to go out and shoot 6 or 7 hours no problem. The Sony's better for low light which is what I need in all these relatively dark, indoor situations. I'm not doing sports so I should be able to get round the HDV problems regarding fast moving pictures. I'm not doing movies so 24p is not going to be a big loss right now. I'll need to rent two more cameras for every gig so trying to rent 2 more HVX200 cameras plus all the accessories in terms of Firestores and/or P2 cards was just not a viable solution.

I have made the very pragmatic decision to go for the work tool I need and not the one I really want. The workflow I have in mind will give me very good SD and HD DVD in the very near future. The HVR Z1 image is very good but just has to be preserved throughout the workflow. I think solutions like Lumiere HD and the Aja Kona Lhe board can do that.

But I want to be very clear here. No way am I saying the Sony is better than the HVX. It really is a question of what the camera is being used for. There is absolutely no doubt that if I were doing fiction, shorts, movies... I would go for the HVX with the P2 card workflow. But for long haul stuff, with hours of footage and rental of equipment etc. the Panasonic system is not yet ready to handle that.

So it is with great regret that I have decided to get the Sony. You have probably shed tears of joy when your Panny came in the door. I'll be shedding a tear of sadness when my Sony comes in.

But for me this is only an intermediate step. I think HDV will do for 2 maybe 3 years but I'm really looking forward to buying the Panasonic HVX500 (don't google it, it doesn't exist yet) with 64 GB cards at $100 each and high powered Raid systems that are dirt cheap etc. That time will come in about 3 years. Until then I am saying Carpe Diem. I'm going to get on shooting with HDV the best I can while being perfectly aware of the limitations involved.

But I'll still be an asiduous reader of DVXUSER, biding my time until I can ebay my Sony, and looking forward to the UPS man knocking on my door saying "Package for Mr. Lehane from.. Sony, no sorry, that's from Panasonic Sir."

:crybaby::crybaby::crybaby:
Click to expand...


I feel your pain my brother. I wanted that clean audio, DVCpro codecs, variable frame rates, and most all, that’s DVCpro50 format.

But alas, my needs were for long form recording. I just couldn’t pull the trigger in good conscience. Had to go with the JVChd100 instead…

Woe is me.
 
We have three HVX-200s here as well as two Sony Z1s. I have to say that there are certain things that are better on the Sony. It has higher resolution than the HVX-200, cleaner blacks, a more intuitive menu navigation, much better LCD screen.

But it is slower, shoots that damned PITA HDV format and is really only an interlaced camera, the cineframe feature is hopeless.

After having backed up hundreds of P2 cards worth of material so far though, I have to agree with you in regards to the length of shoots. If you are shooting hours and hours of stuff per shoot, P2 is a PITA and is MUCH more expensive from a labor standpoint. For long shoots and having to shoot a LOT of material, tape is still superior to P2. That may change with the CinePorter but the FS-100 has not changed my mind about that. I spend dozens of hours a week doing nothing but backing up P2 stuff, it's crazy.

Enjoy! The Sony is not a BAD camera, it just is radically different than the HVX. Adaqpt to it's differences and you can still do amazing work.

Dan
 
Congratulations on figuring out the best kept secret in purchasing professional equipment: Get the right tool for the job, within your budget!
Happy shooting!
 
We have 12 AVIDs here and HDV is a nightmare with all of them, even using the Miranda box and our Nitris Symphony. We are now dubbing all HDV to DVCProHD so that we can actually successfully capture it.

HDV has a LOT of TC glitches on re-capture, DVCProHD doesn't.

Dan
 
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