Any more thoughts on noise...

ksteiger said:
Just be gentle and don't abuse it. I have 2 - 4 gig cards that basically live in the P2 slots except for offloading. Cleanliness is important.
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I read this and thought of Marc Singer the filmmaker guy that is doing the docu on the Marines. ;-) His camera now has a crack in the shell from a bullet ricochet and it is still working. There is sand in the lens mechanisms and it is still working. It think Marc and the Marines are going to give it a run for the money as far as reliability. I understand he will be at the HVX Bootcamp in NYC for a while.

I am looking forward to seeing his camera.


Best,

Jan
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Jan_Crittenden said:
ksteiger said:
Just be gentle and don't abuse it. I have 2 - 4 gig cards that basically live in the P2 slots except for offloading. Cleanliness is important.
QUOTE]
I understand he will be at the HVX Bootcamp in NYC for a while.
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well so much for our secret suprise special guest. :)
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Hey, beans-spillers, I wanted to make that announcement! :)

Like the stupid thing yesterday with the P2 cards only good for 3 months. How stupid is that?
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Not quite sure we can measure that one, I don't know if the scale goes that far. I've been using my cards for almost six months now -- by that logic, shouldn't my cards have worn out twice over already? ;) Instead they work as good today as they did when I first got 'em.
 
I think mine work better than when i got them.. something to do with actually knowing how to use them i imagine.

and im a horrible P2er... i dont use the little booties that your supposed to either.
 
i'll add my 3 cents here.

the noise issue really only seems to pop up if you improperly expose your shot and/or you are using a low quality HD display like the 24" dell monitor. i own that monitor and it does not look that great. however if i put it up on my 50" Runco plasma or project it through my 3chip DLP 720 native Runco projector on a 12 foot Stewart screen it looks fantastic! i shot some beach footage this weekend in various lighting conditions including a very dim sunset and it all looked fantastic. do yourself a favor and spend at least $2-3k on your HD display and you will not see the noise issue the cheap chumps are seeing on their $800 displays.
 
I can't wait to join the HVX club......

Hey Jan Panasonic doesnt have an Artist grant type of thing do they?!
cause instead of money i think an HVX..........

haha im joking, keep up the good work Ma'me.
 
contentlab said:
do yourself a favor and spend at least $2-3k on your HD display and you will not see the noise issue the cheap chumps are seeing on their $800 displays.
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It is just that most of the customers and clients DO spend money on those $800,- displays.
 
well if i watch DVX footage on a 640x480 LCD Aquos TV i would be very unhappy and blame the camera if i didint know better. They look horrid. Cheap TV/monitor = crappy picture.


People just forget that its all a chain. If you upgrade one thing, you have to upgrade allthe things to the same level to appreciate theri quality.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Like the stupid thing yesterday with the P2 cards only good for 3 months. How stupid is that?
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Someone responded to that in another from this way:

If you were to shoot 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for three months using DV tape at 4 bucks apiece, the costs of tape alone would exceed the cost of the p2.

I don't remember exactly how he calculated, but here's my own.... using dv tape at 4 bucks each:

8 hours = 32 bucks
1 week (5 working days) = 160 bucks
1 month = 640 bucks
3 months = 1920 bucks.

Even if the p2 wore out in three months, it's still cheaper than using dv tape.
 
Er... um... not really in the market for any, happily married and all... :thumbsup:

But I thought it was appropriate to point out your clip after Jarred said the "b" word and it seem to fit in this thread well too!

As for Orlando -- let's get through New York first and then we'll talk about what other cities may pop up on the schedule... :)
 
I have to admit that the noise issue can be a little frustrating from time to time, but as in most production processes, the problem seems to be more related to "user error" than any inherent deficiencies in the HVX200. I had to learn the hard way, i.e., by having gain settings up to high, for me to realize in playback (on a large HD monitor, and not the LCD display on the camera, which cannot physically represent all the necessary pixels) that the image had grain/noise.

Certainly, I have found myself, at times, wrongly justifying the noise elements as being artistic "film grain," and then pat myself proudly. But in most situations, it is truly unintended and is, more so, the result of poor lighting and/or improper gain settings.

In addition, I will point out that the quality of my 1080i/24p footage on an Apple 30" Cinema HD display was slightly alarming. There was enough grain that I almost vomited profusely. But again, this was due to my stupid gain settings. Alternatively, the same footage, on a Sony LCD 23" HD display, looked fantastic, so whatever! In the end, this whole process is subjective and about learning your camera to operate to its necessary degree of functionality for your project.

I think the camera is phenomenal in all respects, and I've found the postings and advice in this forum EXTREMELY educational.

--Justin.
 
Barry.. all a good goof. I'm married happily.. or atleast my wife tells me I am. Glad you guys are considering other locations. FLorida would take care of ya for sure...

Come on down.
 
Hi Folks,
I think of the HVX like I think of transparency (slide) film. If you use a light meter to set your exposure by the brightest thing where you still want detail and stop down 2 stops you will rarely find something in fame that is so dark that it is below the noise floor. If something is below the noise floor you sould add some fill light to your scene to keep your darkest areas above that floor.
It didn't take much testing to figure out these values. In cine-D you still have a huge range for a video camera. Astounding really.
Now go make a movie!
Sam
 
Stabwound, you're not taking into account harddrive archival in your overall costs..

(2) 4GB p2 cards = $1300

8 hours per day = 480 GB (full DVCPROHD bandwidth) = $400 for a harddrive, add another $400 if you want to mirror your footage, so that's $800 a day in archival

$800 X 5 days = $4000 for the work week

$4000 x 30 = $120,000 for the month

$120,000 X 3 months = a second mortgage

you get my drift...

I love p2 and I love the HVX but Panasonic cannot say that your tape costs are now cut out of the picture, replace tape with data storage - most of us won't be archiving all that data ourselves, our clients will, but still, there is still an overhead - the footage isn't being magically stored in the ether -

there are cheaper solutions, shooting 720PN, using internal SATA drives, etc. but it still will get pricy using that model..

peace out!
 
Justin Reade said:
There was enough grain that I almost vomited profusely. But again, this was due to my stupid gain settings.
--Justin.
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All best but video has noise no grain. Grain particles are on film.
 
rgdfilms said:
Stabwound, you're not taking into account harddrive archival in your overall costs..
peace out!
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i almost flip my lid everytime someone talks about HD space.

um, when you shoot on tape, you gotta put it on a Hard drive. So you end up on a Hard drive at the end of the road being this magic new thing people gotta buy.

Sure a dv tape you can put on a shelf for 5 years till it breaks down, but you can goto LTO or DLT tape as well with P2 if you really really want to have some sort of thing you can sit and look at on the shelf and never watch again.
 
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