Any more thoughts on noise...

M

meddesigner

Active member
I am ready to write the PO but continue to read posts about noise from a wide variety of sources both here and other forums and reviews. The big question is do the users of this camera feel we will see noticeable mosquito noise or other similar artifacts in the recorded video?

The DVD Panasonic gave me a NAB has some really awful looking material on it and I wrote it off as bad compression for the DVD but I am just a bit concerned. I have seen some nice material that the members of this forum have posted but most of it has been compressed and reduced in size to help with file sizes.

So if you own the camera do you feel the noise issue is a real issue or is it just web banter to complain about stuff? Since this is the only camera that is not HDV in the typical comparisons it makes me wonder - especially when some reviews really praise the Canon or the JVC.

Since I am about to spend 30K I want to be sure this camera is the right choice as we must live with it for a while.


Thanks -
 
Here's my suggestion:
as with everything else, you will find persons who like, and some who dislike, any given thing. The HVX will be no different.

1) look at the persons who give the HVX high marks
2) then look at the persons who complain about it
3) now evaluate who, of these two groups, you find more trustworthy

Added:
of course, better yet, go out and rent/borrow an HVX and check it out yourself!
 
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Do as I did and find a vendor that will let you demo it for a week. I paid for it on my credit card with a guarantee I could return it if I didn't like it. I "MIGHT" have paid an extra $100.00 over the cheapest vendor, but it was money well spent.

I think part of the equasion is that I found noise when doing my preliminary shots in the office. But when I duplicated the unlit office shots with our BetaCam, I saw about the same amount of noise.
So the camera like any professional camera does like/need light. Our studio tests looked great.

Part of the equasion is that many people can now afford a camera like this and aren't used to lighting for such high end cameras.

Another part of the equasion is as I've found, some of the complainers are owners of other cameras and are jealous of the fact that for just a little more money in P2 cards, they could have been part of the Broadcast industry who are marveled at the HVX.

In short, yes there is noise. The HVX isn't the best low light camera, heck I have "NightVision" on my Digital8 camera.:)
But so far I haven't found the noise to be much or any worse then my BetaCam.
 
TedRR said:
Another part of the equasion is as I've found, some of the complainers are owners of other cameras and are jealous of the fact that for just a little more money in P2 cards, they could have been part of the Broadcast industry who are marveled at the HVX.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't understand the vitriol aimed at the HVX by some in the HDV camp. If they like those cameras (HD100, H1, etc.), fine, to each his own. I don't see why some feel compelled to come on here and troll, hint that Barry faked or manipulated camera comparisons (e.g., Las Vegas strip test). Bizarre. While HDV isn't for me, I've also got a heck of a lot better things to do than troll over at DV.com. Find the camera you like, and live and let live.
 
vidled said:
Here's my suggestion:
as with everything else, you will find persons who like, and some who dislike, any given thing. The HVX will be no different.

1) look at the persons who give the HVX high marks
2) then look at the persons who complain about it
3) now evaluate who, of these two groups, you find more trustworthy

Added:
of course, better yet, go out and rent/borrow an HVX and check it out yourself!
Click to expand...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=49352

These are the people who like the HVX.........
James cameron, Francis ford coppola, Steve Soderberg........ i think thats good enough :)
 
Yeah, I saw the DVD that panasonic gave out for the HVX and it looked pretty bad, especially in the shoot of the HVX rotating against the black background. You can see a lot of noise in the HVX body.

But I have an HVX and I've shot with it and it doesn't seem to be as bad as people think it is. Just make sure that when you shoot, keep the most important stuff in the frame above 30-50 IRE and then bring it down a little in post. That will help minimize noise. I've also heard there are some SCENE FILES that help with noise but I have yet to experiment with adjusting KNEE, etc.

Hope that helps.
 
Noise noise noise.....Blah, Blah Blah...... Sorry, it's getting old hearing this same mantra...

Barlow and I were at Promax yesterday to see the HVX. It's unfortunate Promax lost the power supply/charger to their HVX200, so i didn't get to test it out. However I was shown a lot of footage in not ideal locations in New York. The noise issue is so over blown it is ridiculous to some degree. The HVX200 is an awesome camera. I forgot how solid and tough it feels. It's well built thats for sure. The only gripe I have is the cost of P2. Jesus, $650 bucks to record 4 minutes of 1080p/24. Eeeeeeeeee, hard to stomach that one. I want the HVX, however I am looking at the Z1u Pal CF25 mode to see if it looks good. People have been telling that the Pal CF25 on the Z1u is very good. Nothing like the CF24 junk on the FX1.

Still the HVX is in it's own league, and I have no complaints for what you get for the money. Except for the P2 media cost. I think when the P2 4gig falls to $300 mark it will be better. Two of those 4 gig cards and a p2 store is a perfect match for project work....


Pappas
 
My dealer gave me a two week satisfaction return policy on my HVX. After a bout of testing, I decided to keep it.

Yeah, I was really concerned at first about noise, but haven't really noticed it unless you stick your eyeball an inch from my 27 " LCD monitor. Even then, it's only on certain dark areas, and not at all distracting.

Overall, I'm pleased with the purchase.

The picture looks great on my LCD monitor. I'd post some stills, but somehow the pictures lose some snap when I convert them to jpeg for some reason.... maybe the gamma for my video playback is different from my desktop gamma....
 
I have the HVX200 and I am a little concerned because occasionally noise does creep into some of the shadow areas. What makes this frustrating is I will have similar shots with no noise. It seems inconsistent at best. It can deliver amazing imagery.....but once and a while I get a stinker. And that usually means part of the frame was light and part was darker and the noise crept into the darker parts.

Tomorrow I will be receiving the Canon XL-H1 and will be putting it through the paces for a week. I will be shooting both in similar settings so I will really have a feel for comparitive noise levels of both. I will likely be sticking with the HVX200 since I have already invested so much into it. But at least I will know "first hand" what the other camera can and can't do in comparison to the HVX.

Peace.
 
Pappas, I thought you were using a XLH1 with a firestore? Isn't that about 2k more (given the extra price of the Canon) then an HVX firestore would run you or was there a price drop?
 
steindj said:
I honestly don't understand the vitriol aimed at the HVX by some in the HDV camp. If they like those cameras (HD100, H1, etc.), fine, to each his own. I don't see why some feel compelled to come on here and troll, hint that Barry faked or manipulated camera comparisons (e.g., Las Vegas strip test). Bizarre. While HDV isn't for me, I've also got a heck of a lot better things to do than troll over at DV.com. Find the camera you like, and live and let live.
Click to expand...

Yeah! What he said.
 
icicle22 said:
I have the HVX200 and I am a little concerned because occasionally noise does creep into some of the shadow areas. What makes this frustrating is I will have similar shots with no noise. It seems inconsistent at best.
Peace.
Click to expand...
Areas under 30IRE with a lot of red in them tend to be noisier than other shadow areas.

I've found the "Marker" function (the one you get by toggling the zebra button) to be very useful when lighting. It's great-- a built-in spot meter that essentially tells you the IRE setting of whatever's inside the viewfinder brackets.
 
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Hi David. The H1 was purchased for extensive testing as was the HD100. Both are gone now since that testing stage is over. Having been a DVX100 owner and felt it was the best minidv camera, I am looking to acquire a replacement. The DVX was for my own stuff.. Those I work for rent gear, never buy. So the HVX for personal projects is appealing, however once you start adding on certain parts, it's imho stupid to waste that much money on a personal project camera.


David this should answer your question about the H1..

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=55418

Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
XLH1 and HVX200 frame grabs and news here:
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }


DavidBeier said:
Pappas, I thought you were using a XLH1 with a firestore? Isn't that about 2k more (given the extra price of the Canon) then an HVX firestore would run you or was there a price drop?
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Richard in Nashville,

Go rent the camera, and work with it. I happen to think it is a wonderful camera in light of not having to work with HDV, and then look at all the other things that it does. Sometimes I think it is just the trolls that keep bringing this up as an issue. Like the stupid thing yesterday with the P2 cards only good for 3 months. How stupid is that?

So what you need to do is test it out. You have a sizeable chunk of change that will be spent on the right camera. Take the time to make sure that it works for you.

Best,

jan
 
booya.. The queen speaks.

shes right.. just go test the damn camera.. stop listening to everyone else and take it for a test drive. Rent it for a day and if its a good dealer they will apply that rental fee to the purchase.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Like the stupid thing yesterday with the P2 cards only good for 3 months. How stupid is that?
Click to expand...

I agree. As a technician I was appalled to see that post. Does this guy honestly believe that Panasonic would create a product this expensive that would only last 3 months? For what it's worth I have a Pnasonic 5 CD changer that I bought in 1996 for $130. (with varispeed, BTW) I have used it almost EVERY DAY since then. I wonder how many revolutions that CD platter inside has made since '96. It still works flawlessly. My point is that if they can make an inexpensive consumer product that can last that long, I have nothing but confidence in the staying power of the HVX and P2 cards. Just be gentle and don't abuse it. I have 2 - 4 gig cards that basically live in the P2 slots except for offloading. Cleanliness is important.


Thank you Jan for your patience. We appreciate you.
 
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