Hvx-200, Xlh1, Hd100 and the Z1 pros and cons thread please help me decide

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seti808

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I like many other people am looking at 4 main cameras in a price range

Hvx-200, Xlh1, Hd100 and the Z1

I need a versatile camera that can do music videos
sports, indie films, commercials and documentaries. I have just about kicked the Z1 off my list do to the lack of true 24p.

I wanted to get the hvx-200, but I really don’t like the fact
that the LCD is not high quality (deal breaker). Besides that major flaw this camera seemed to be the most versatile in this price range.

The Xlh1 seems great too but just a little too expensive for my budget + I hear you need a real expensive lens to get the most
out of it putting it even further out of my reach.

After reading these forums for the past couple months I'm heavily leaning towards the JVC.

The only real bad flaw I can see with the JVC is that there is no 1080i or 60p or whatever all the extra formats the hvx has etc...which I really wanted for versatility but then I thought about it, there is not going to be a lucrative market for those formats for a least a couple years maybe more. DVD seems to have some years left on at being king of the market. I am I right?

I have a Hdr-fx1 and I love the LCD!

Is the Jvc LCD as good as the Sony?


I also loved the slow motion I got from filming at 60i on the Sony.
Will the JVC get me the same quality slow motion with only 30i?


Some one said they need to take all the good things about all these cameras and make one new camera with out cutting corners and sell it for under 10K.

I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can’t believe the deal breaker issues these companies let slide.

Ps I'm obviously not a camera or video expert but to me the Hdr-fx1 shooting in 60i Hdv mode at 1080i playback looked awesome on my HDTV. I'm really hoping this 24p thing everyone talks about on the JVC is going to look even better!

Please any feedback would be great I'm about to purchase.

I almost feel like waiting 6 months sensing some one has got to get it all right soon.


I may have some things wrong, so please correct me.
 
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Sorry for beating the horse.


Did i forget any flaws with the Jvc?


Please humor me I have read some many posts my head it spinning.
 
i think I see a bit of a skeleton poking out of the ground......I thought this was dead and buried long ago........

seti808....I suggest doing a search of past forum results (and try google), you'll find plenty of threads that deal with this topic.
 
Like i said I have been reading these fourms for months.

I have read so much there is a lot of mixed opinions.

Could anyone please just clarify?

It will take a few seconds and help new readers.

Please
 
seti808 said:
Like i said I have been reading these fourms for months.

I have read so much there is a lot of mixed opinions.

Could anyone please just clarify?

It will take a few seconds and help new readers.

Please
Click to expand...

Where do you live?

Let's start with this piece of info and take it from there.
 
Uh crap...can't help you there. Don't know who or what is out there.

I believe there is at least one member from these boards out in the islands.
 
seti808 said:
Kona Hawaii

Lacking video gear out here big time
Click to expand...

Setti, download footage and see for yourself. I was like you a few months ago. I went with the HVX. I don't regret it one bit, and am very happy with my purchase.

IMAO, you should either buy the HVX or the upcoming JVC HD250.

I think I narrowed down the options for you. With either of those, you'll be a happy shooter.

Don't forget that the HVX is a good option ONLY with the P2 cards or a Firestore. Without it (and if you can't afford going above 6500 USD for the cam + 2 4gb cards or a Firestore) the camera is not worth it compared to the competition.

I got an HVX, 2 8gb cards and a P2 Store. I'm above (a little) the price of a XL H1, but still bellow 10K. Expensive, I know, but I'm ready to respond to all kind of shooting situations right now. I also have a 1 year and a half Powerbook and a Powermac that work ALMOST perfectly with the camera (no 720p 25 support :( ), and can edit on the road If I want to. No rendering or slow playback issues on both machines. I believe I would be in serious trouble with the HDV stuff on my powerbook, tough.

The HVX works for me, and should be more than enough for my next 2 years or so... I'll probably get an A1 for stickypod or tricky (dangerous) action shots, also.
 
sounds like you don't need long record times, so the hvx might be better cuz it's more versatile. if you need long record times then i'd recommend the jvc.
in my opinion, the JVC seems to produce slightly better resolution and latitude on weekdays, while the HVX wins the resolution war on weekends, although during leap years the reverse is true.

The only other thing is the HD100 is a much sexier looking camera so you'll attract more chicks with it. But keep in mind, the camera will only get you to first base with the chicks, what you do from that point is a more a function of operator skill. it's the carpenter, not the hammer.
 
brianluce said:
in my opinion, the JVC seems to produce slightly better resolution and latitude on weekdays, while the HVX wins the resolution war on weekends, although during leap years the reverse is true.

The only other thing is the HD100 is a much sexier looking camera so you'll attract more chicks with it. But keep in mind, the camera will only get you to first base with the chicks, what you do from that point is a more a function of operator skill. it's the carpenter, not the hammer.
Click to expand...

This has to be the best post on the whole HD100 vs. HVX200 debate! Hilarious.
 
Like SPZ said, if the only flaw you see in the HD100 is the lack of 60i, then you should be better waiting for the HD250.

But if the problem with the HVX is just the LCD you can go for a little more and get the Marshall. Then you would be able to use it with anything you want (the good thing of having extra thingies around you; like a good mic.)

Anyway, the HVX is here and the JVC didn´t arrive yet, plus being a new product; guinea, guinea,...

At least you got it down to two.
 
Summarizing what we've seen from the shoot out and other threads.

HVX200

Pros

Best Color (4:2:2)
Best Motion (ability to undercrank and overcrank, pure frames over HDV)
Most filmic gamma curve (opinion)
Most filmic look in general (opinion)
24p
Most versitile
P2 workflow

Cons
Not as sharp as some would like.
P2 Workflow.
Can't interchange lenses.

HD100

Pros

Supposedly a bit sharper than all but XLH1
Interchangible lenses
24p
HDV tapes work with a other decks
HDV tape workflow

Cons

HDV Compression which means 4:2:0 colorspace and encoding between frames that can lead to motion break up.

Extra Sharpness appears mostly due to artificial edge enhancment rather than higher resolution

No 1080i
No 60p
HDV tape workflow

XLH1

Pros

Sharpest by far (and real extra resolution and detail rather than edge enhancment).
Interchangible lenses.
HDV Tape Workflow
SDI Out uncompressed option.

Cons

3k more than others.
HDV Tape workflow
HDV leads to same color and motion compression as JVC

No 24p. Instead, 24f creates the frames by interlacing the image thus losing resolution. This is also apparently incompatible with many editing programs.

HDV Tapes only play on Canon XLH1. In other words, you have to use your camera to capture everything thus speeding up the breakdown of the head and reducing it to a 9k paperwieght. Not good.

Z1

Pros

Very clean (least noise)
Pretty Sharp
HDV tape workflow

Cons

Produces the least filmic image (opinion)
Looks like very sharp video.
Very little image control.
No 24p.
HDV color and motion compression
HDV tape workflow.

Note:

I liste both P2 and HDV tape workflow as both a pro and a con since neither is ideal. P2 costs a ton more and means lower recordin times (unless you get a firestore). However, it means pure tapeless recording!

HDV tape is cheaper with longer record times but means having to worry about capturing, worry about if the firewire connection is good, worrying about dirty heads, worrying about heads breaking down, ect.
 
If you have the fx1 stick with that until next NAB. You already have hd now. You even like the image it produces on your HDTV. Are you editing on mac or PC? try downloading a demo of a framerate conversion program 60i to 24p. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Magic Bullet Suite
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] v2.0. This was made with a sony hdv http://personales.ya.com/elfabrica/asfalto.h264.mov and this http://www.lumieremedia.com/tomorrowistoday/tomorrow_trailer/
you should probably use the sony until it starts to limit your creativity. By then a year would have passed and you can get a SI Nordhauser(SIN cam) or Red cam. Peace[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
 
Thanks for the replies guys very helpful!

I want to bring up the Lcd Topic.

What is marshall?


Is the JVC lcd as good as sonys?

Is the HVX lcd that bad vs sony?


Im on PC by the way Vt 4 intill Speededit comes out
 
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Marshall makes on-camera small HD LCD monitors.

The JVC LCD is comparable to the HVX's.

The Sony LCD is better than both.

The HVX LCD gets the job done -- use EVF DTL and the "focus assist" feature and you can get precise pixel-accurate focus using the existing LCD.
 
Thanks again everyone for all of the replies!

Nik Manning did you shoot those videos?

They made me realise that sure there is better camera's but a good story
with some decent filming techniques will draw people in and the sony
seems to cut it.

I wanted to watch that video.

If your avergae joe likes a video cause of the story, I dont think they would care about what is was filmed on.

Was that video shot at 60i and given the film effect?

Any details please
 
JVC HD100 - $5300

Pro:
Cheap MiniDV to record hours of footage
Cheap Storage to store all that footage
Removable Lens
Shoulder mount

Con:
Lousy Battery - so add +$300
No Slow motion/Variable Framerates
HDV format
CA(chromatic abberation or purple fringe) infested stock lens at full zoom​

HVX - $5300+$600= $5900

Pro:
Mojo or pleasing to look at (subjective)
Variable Framerates
DVCPRO-HD
Widelens

Cons:
P2 card price
Archival for hours of footage
Noise/lowlight (subjective)
not good for shooting alone at remote areas (need laptop or P2 data dump or firestore)
​

With Firestore drives ($1500-2200) both can get tapeless IT workflow. Firestores work with both HVX and JVC....

Thorny issues:
  1. Image quality -
    If HVX can capture images from a SD size 960x520 pixel CCD, and extrapolate it to 1920x1080 at 4:2:2 with techical wizardry- can't the JVC capture at least comparable image quality with a native 1280x720 at 720p?
    --- So bottomline is both can be made to capture similar quality picture.
  2. Split Screen - Even tho JVC claims to have eliminated SSE, it is still a tossup
 
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